"Aviation workers announce boycott against Lan Peru
The aviation workers of Peru agreed to boycott Lan Chile and its company Lan Peru for two days, as a way of supporting the Peruvian Airline Aerocontinente. This was a press released made by for unions of the aviation sector.
The company in Chile stated they trust Peruvian authorities will respect and support the company's rights in Peru".
LVZXV From Finland, joined Mar 2004, 1976 posts, RR: 51 Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 760 times:
Oh-oh! I hope the Argentines will be more welcoming... Seriously, LAN has to watch out with Peru and for that matter Ecuador too. Both are more protectionist and less free market than Chile. The defence of N6 is a matter of national pride, since AeroPeru and Faucett have gone down the plug-hole, and TANS doesn't seem that high profile these days. N6 is the last "large" Peruvian airline around. Unfortunately, it's rotten to the core. I guess Peru doesn't want to go the way of Ecuador, which lost its national carrier Ecuatoriana (in part to the intervention of VP), and is now represented by a military airline, TAME. No doubt LAN and TACA will continue to make enemies in the future, so I wouldn't be surprised if this news repeats itself...
4jaded From United States, joined Apr 2004, 248 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 743 times:
My feeling and sense on the street is that Peruvians feel shut out of Peruvian aviation by both LAN and Taca. They feel that outsiders /Mexico/ destroyed their beloved Flagship carrier and now others from outside are cherry picking the jewels from the crown. While many Peruvians themselves are not thrilled with N6 it seems to be the lesser evil. The situation will remain extremely sensitive until the time when N6 and all its principals are either cleared once and for all of all charges or a Peruvian dedicates him/her self to operating a worldclass airline. For the short term however there will be alot of very tense and uncomfortable moments for our Peruvian friends
Arcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2310 posts, RR: 33 Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 665 times:
Hi LV:
Actually I don't think the situation in Peru and Ecuador are the same for LA. As you know Peru had troubles with Chile in the past (which sometimes is reminded in the present- you know, the same happens with Argentina, let's face it ).
On the other hand, Ecuador and Chile have always been friend countries. I am afraid this boycott is very related to the fact LA is Chilean. Remember also that N6 blames LA and Chilean government for their failure, so I dare to say this is more than just "a country being nationalist with its aviation", I think this is more related to the old and disgusting rivalry Peru/Chile. Remember there's nothing against TA yet.
And even more, you know Chilean authorities sued Fernando Zevallos for money laundry. This week, also Lupe Zevallos has been requested for our authorities.
I think this is a complex scenario not related to aviation only.
I honestly hope this won't happen in Argentina, as I'm sure it won't happen to Aerolineas del Sur here. If we have no problems on eating Arcor chocolates, I'm sure we'll fly them if they are good and competitive.
Mt99 From Bouvet Island, joined May 1999, 4042 posts, RR: 9 Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 653 times:
I think Arcono hit the nail right on the head.
In Latin America, inter-country relationships manifest themselves in these ways. Bad blood between countries usually get worse by companies from one country "invading" the other.
Its the same thing, in most of central american countries (exept El Salvador) do not hold in high regard TACA. IF LAN chile would operate in the area it would be considered 1000% better, just beacuse there is no "competion" between those countries an Chile.
LVZXV From Finland, joined Mar 2004, 1976 posts, RR: 51 Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 656 times:
Arcano:
I'm sorry but having visited I really cannot put in too many good words for Peru. The country does suffer an inferiority complex not unalike Bolivia's, except Bolivia actually has a couple of not so bad airlines!
I see your distinction between Peru and Ecuador--it was a Brazilian and not a Chilean who helped founder Ecuatoriana, and historically, Chilean-Ecuadorian relations have been pretty good.
I tell you Peru is being nationalist because it is scared. I have no doubt Western tourists are recommended by their travel agencies to fly on LP and TA instead of N6. Thankfully in Argentina AR is enjoying good write-ups and I can vouch for their considerably better service.
Chile is playing a different ball game to most of the rest of South America, and currently it is perceived by, on the whole, Brazil, Argentina, Bolivia and Peru as having its back turned to the continent, and as I've said before, playing second fiddle to the US. LA will have to tread carefully wherever it goes, whether they heed my advice or not. Acordate que es una continente de resentidos...
Arcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2310 posts, RR: 33 Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 638 times:
XV and MT:
I see your point. Do you know something, it really surprise me that you say the rest of latam perceive us as "back turners", meanwhile we fell the rest of latam has back turned to us. Weird, isn't it?
Anyway, also let me explain you we are not big fans of USA (we had no troubles for saying "no" to Iraq issue in the UN security council, and we are very distant "friends" of them. Remember also how USA helped to Pinochet's coup. These things will never be forgotten), but maybe we are more focused in Europe and Asia than in Latin America. Also remember that, despite of people believes, our biggest efforts in order to have stronger links have been with Bolivia!, but it's them not wanting dealing with us. I don't say I support that, but I do respect and understand their position. We also are very disappointed after realizing that Argentina, which we considered our new best friend, ally and partner, and many people cheered the new status of our relations, treated us with no particular "deferencia" (sorry for not translating) by "K".
So it's amazing how the world moves based on biased believes: you feel Chile abandoned you all, we fell you abandoned us... que curioso, no?
It's also very weird what you say since, as with Ecuador, Chile and Brazil always had very good relations. Remember Chile and Ecuador are the only countries in the continent that don't border Brazil. Actually, I remember the words of a former Brazilian president that stated "La amistad entre Chile y Brasil no tiene limites"... beautiful, isn't it?
Please be honest, do you think that it will happen the same with "Lan Argentina"? will Argentine people boycott Lan because it's Chilean?. You know a Peruvian member of this forum asked me once: If there was a Peruvian airline flying to Chile, Chileans won't fly the because they are Peruvian? My answer was NO!. We are more focused in products, not in capitals. If the airline is good we will use it. The problem with Peruvian aviation has nothing to do with "Peru/Chile issue". Remember in 1996 two a/c crashed in Peru (Faucett 737 and Aeroperu 757). In both accidents many Chileans died, so they were our national disaster also. Specially in the case of the 737; many young people died after backpacking in Peru and Ecuador, so in Chilean's mind, Peruvian aviation is perceived as "insecure", so this is the actual issue, nothing to do with "Peru" itself. Got the point?
Mt: I had no idea that you faced the same problems with TA in central america. Does anybody know who Paraguay deals with TAM Mercosur? do they face the same troubles
ARGinMIA From Argentina, joined Nov 2001, 485 posts, RR: 9 Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 623 times:
We also are very disappointed after realizing that Argentina, which we considered our new best friend, ally and partner, and many people cheered the new status of our relations, treated us with no particular "deferencia" (sorry for not translating) by "K".
You also have to remember that is very hard for us to forget what happend in 1982... Imagine that if Peruvians where not able to forget what happened way over 100 years.. its MUCH MORE difficult to forget in just 20 years....
You guys have a bad image down in the southern cone.. and we do feel you turned your backs towards us.. Now.. LAN ARGENTINA.. if they ever take off.. i don't think you guys will have boycots againts it.. but yes.. some people will prefer not to fly you for obious reasons.. also you must remember that all the other LAN operations (PERU, Dominican, Ecuador) encountered almost No competitors.. now argentina will face you with a very large and powerfull airline... its not going to be as easy
Juanr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 599 times:
I think that there is a problem with some of our southern cone neighbours, they use to think that they are better than their northern "friends" and tend to look at us like poor, unsecure not civilized countries, they use to think that they are more "European".
I do understand the Peruvians feeling about LAN in their country it would be the same here in Colombia; we are not talking about just pride, it is about the money goes out to international banks, it is about unemployment in our countries it goes beyond a livery or a registration number in a plane.
LVZXV: it may be a continente de resentidos, but do not forget that Argentina is still a part of the continent so you better watch out your comments or talk in first person. (perhaps you aree too european-bound to admit it)
Juan
SKBO
P.S. I have nothing against Chileans or Argentinians.
SoAmSky From United States, joined Jan 2004, 297 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 591 times:
Hi Arcano
For what I've read, there's a perception in Latin America Chile have played pretty selfish once it's gotten commercial preferences with the United States. However, I'm happy Chile is doing tremendous progress down there which, in the long run, would help other countries around to get a grip.
"You also have to remember that is very hard for us to forget what happend in 1982... Imagine that if Peruvians where not able to forget what happened way over 100 years.. its MUCH MORE difficult to forget in just 20 years...."
HI, ARGinMIA, are you talking about Falkland Island? Chile not siding with Argentina? Chile couldn't do otherwise as they couldn't afford to give back the land they got from Bolivia.
LanPeru From Peru, joined Jun 2001, 586 posts, RR: 13 Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 578 times:
Ok...I have to agree with everyone that this is childish in every aspect...however this is not really just against LAN but in general towards the situation-and gov't- that so many foreign companies control important things like the airlines in Peru..I wish that I could be given the power to establish an airline in Peru but that is far beyond me (financially though) I will make this clear....AeroContinente is a crappy airline...but right now in Peru especially, it is a source for jobs....maybe I should write to try to get a grant to start my airline huh? lol
Mariscal35 From Ecuador, joined Jun 2004, 39 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 576 times:
"Seriously, LAN has to watch out with Peru and for that matter Ecuador too. Both are more protectionist and less free market than Chile."
LVZXV has a point on that. Ecuador is very protectionist when it comes to its market. In Ecuador, TAME is a very respectful and popular airline, as it was Ecuatoriana. LAN also will have to deal with several cultural, political, and economic barriers to get its wings flying successfully with the LAN Ecuador livery .
Mariscal35.
"El partido no estuvo ni bueno ni malo, sino todo lo contrario" Nixon Carcelen
Arcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2310 posts, RR: 33 Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 569 times:
Hola Lan Peru
I agree with you, but remember the boycott is against Lan, not Taca, this is why I think this is more than aviation nationalism.
SoAmSky: Selfish? I get what you tried to say. Maybe, but what do you expect us to do?: Just focus on Latin America, close our export to Asia or US and remain undeveloped? No guys, you have to recognize that we did what we could do for us without hurting others. If this created a difference, well, this was the result, but I don't think we tried to brake others progress, so I don't feel this is a "bad selfish". I rather call it: "we take control of our potential". We never wanted or made anything against Latin America. Any Latam country could made the same changes that Chile did. There is no secrets we didn't share. The problems are, as you say, a kind of "anti" perception that don't realize the fact that if one gets better, we all get better. Why do they call us selfish when we want Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia and Peru being delevoped? we would win a lot of synergy!
Arginmia: 1982? yes, embarrassing, but remember it was just after 1978 almost war, so the environment was pretty thick!. Remember also this was not the Chilean people supporting England, it was Pinochet kissing Tatcher's ass. And that was the point, after so many years of this kind of behavior of Chile and Argentina, we felt it was finally over and we will become friends again, as it was on 1810. We were wrong... Don't judge us for 1982 without realizing the actual state of the relations Chile/Argentina at the time. Can you be sure that if in 1982 the UK would take Easter Island instead, the Argentine dictatorship wouldn't support them as well? You know the answer. 2004 is not 1982; if you guys made something against us in 1982 I would understand, not now, not Kirchner. 20 years is not hard to forget if you want. We almost did with 1978 and 1990 (Laguna del Desierto, which remember we thought it was Chilean).
Juan: I really hate this types of comparisons. I don't think Chileans or Argentine are better than Colombian or Ecuadorian. I hate this "European blood dreams" as we feel proud sons of Arauco people. Let me remember how I defended Peru when this Colombian pal posted how better was Colombia than Peru. Are we Chileans really the ones with "complejo de superioridad" then?. I agree with you, comments as "Continente de Resentidos" will prevail our difference. Your other comment: foreign capital: I give you an example: look what Telefonica made in the region. They took CTC Chile and became a very efficient phone company. If the result is money going to Spain... good for them! we won decent telephone system. When you forget about these issues and just care for people to have good products/services, why care so much if other guy take the money!
Mariscal Is Lan facing the same troubles in Ecuador? don't you like it because it's foreign? I mean, one thing is to like TAME because it's national. A different story is if you dont like a foreing airline.
The point is Chile made some changes before than the rest of Latam. But note It was made also under very specific circumstances: a dictatorship: no unions, no opposition, no congress to negotiate. The cost was tremendous in terms of Chilean employment and industry; collapsed at the time. If all this reforms made now a change, and despite our poverty index we are in a "better" financial shape, what do you blame us for??? again: what are we supposed to do for be more intergrated to the continent. Mercosur was not an option since our duties are lower, and what is the point in closing the borders once we opened it. We made tremendous efforts with Bolivia, with Argentina. Bolivia has its position: nothing unless ocean (which again I understand, but not share), and now K slap our face once and again.
I don't believe Chile is better: we have maaaaany problems that many of you already solved: remember we can't get divorced yet. Remember our market is very small (15 millions). Remember how development is concentrated in Santiago, three times larger than the next city. We just focused on other things, but these fact were never a back turn to Latin America.
I mean, I don't believe in Bolivar's dream of "one country". But at least I believe in a continent when we recognize our difference, but respect and collaborate with each other above all things.
Probably many of you will keep seeing us as selfish, anti Latam, bad for not giving Bolivia a coast. I think all I try to say that our relations are based mostly in believes, thoughts, what we thing of the neighbor. How I judge my continent-pal. I don't thing Germans love French, but I think they learned how to live in peace, how to look forward.
As for Lan in Argentina: great if they have a mighty airline to compete with. Competition is good, is fair. If Lan looses the fight (if ther is no room for all), well, they return home and all friends. But it was two airlines competing. Even better if this position force AR or SWinds to improve their service. Don't you think? I don't know for sure if Lan will suceed there, in Peru, Ecuador, Venezuela or Madagascar. But at least let the guys provide the service and then make a decision!
Didn't you seed Shroeder and Chirac together in the D day anniversary? Why don't we?
ARGinMIA From Argentina, joined Nov 2001, 485 posts, RR: 9 Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 547 times:
Arcano.. let me ask you.. what if chile was selling propane to argentina and all of a sudden you guys needed the gas to generate electricity to sustain your growth rates and to heat all your population.. will you stop your own heating & electricity to keep on selling to Argentina or would you intead take care of your own yard before helping others? I don't think that what K did was sooo bad.. it will be much much worse if he just continued to sell you guys gas and cut down our electricity over here.. I do understand you guys are mad but.. its understandable and logic... about LAN... I think that once lan makes it here they will inmediatelly kill SW so we will be back like in the old AR-LAPA times... witch could b very good for the service (rate wise i dont think they can go much lower than todays numbers)
Arcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2310 posts, RR: 33 Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 536 times:
ArginMia: We are not mad about the gas per-se. We are mad because K says "It doesn't matter", "bad for you", "sue the companies", "Argentina didn't take commitment", "the agreement with Chile is illegal in Argentina". We feel bad for his behavior that is read as "I f*** you but I don't care". We feel bad because there is gas in Argentina, but bad policies broke gas industry development (fixed prices). Me entiendes? it's the way things had been handled, not because of more or less gas in the pipe. It's totally understandable that if you are lack of gas your first choice MUST be Argentina. The issue is that you are not lack of gas, you are lack of a sustainable development model for a key industry. This is why we complaint, but again, is this reaction of "I don't care" that hurts.
Anyway, this could be a biased opinion, you know why? Because I do like and admire your country, and I think we should be so strong if we decide to forget the past and become best pals... but we both seem to screw this potential once and again with little things that make a lot of noise. I honestly believe Chile and Argentina are natural allies, as Canada and USA, and these BS just spoil things. I hate when some people here say "I don't like Argentina" and when I realize some of you people also look us just like "shilenitos". ¿No lo crees?
Back to aviation: do you really thing SW will die? aren't enough room for the three of them? what about their new frequencies?
SoAmSky From United States, joined Jan 2004, 297 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 534 times:
Hi Arcano,
Just let me make clear that "the selfishness" is not my view. I think I have perceived that sentiment from Readings I made from different sources. Yet its not overgeneralized. Chile is mostly set as a good example and as the model role to follow; in fact many countries are implementing programs that have proven successful in your country. I don't think other countries in Lat Am. want to see Chile down, but you have to admit the fact that in Latin Countries airlines are an issue of national pride. They can't help it, they have to grow it.
Arcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2310 posts, RR: 33 Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 540 times:
I know man! sorry if I let you understand I "blamed" you for calling us selfish. I knew you meant "it's said", not "I say". I'm just answering this charge of "selfish" and try to made a point we don't try others to remain as they are. We will be better if our friends are better. Dis you read the article of the New York Post "Chile starts to feel lonely" it said something about it.
I know there are nationalism about it. I know if AR is just like LA here, people will prefer LA ceteris paribus. Actually some people here say the Chilean government should not allow AR to opperate here until Argentina allow LA to fly there. But I think we understood competition and option is good. As I've said so many times; I don't need LAN's owners to be even more rich. I need a good airline. If a Cambodian give me the best airline from SCL to MAD, I will pay to Cambodia. Is that simple. Is the same when I whent to EZE on AF just for flying the 777; I love LA but I wanted a ride on 777. If LA gives me only 320s and 340s, I'll pay France. Who wins? Chilean consumers.
LVZXV From Finland, joined Mar 2004, 1976 posts, RR: 51 Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 483 times:
Very impressive feedback, from all of you! Many points circulating here, so I will try to address them:
Arcano:
Yes, Chile definitely does things differently in Latin America. It's doesn't have the best geographical location but on the whole Chile makes the best use it can of the minerals it has (copper, molybdenum, etc.) and was definitely smart to start trade with Asia. It has a long way to go (I tend to see Chile as economically progressive and socially ultra-conservative--generally speaking, of course), but the country is doing well, no hay vuelta que darle.
On the other hand, at least in Argentina, I know many who theorise that Chile is "acomplejado por los Andes" (is complexed by the Andes), interpret that as you will. And remember, even Bolivar, who dedicated much of his life and ideals to uniting South America, admitted shortly before his death that the continent would never unite. Some of the reasons he gave were geography, collective disobedience (disrespect for the law) and tribalism. If I could remember more I would elaborate, but I read it some time ago.
As for Argentina, I wouldn't be surprised by it's behaviour. Although K and Lagos are both centre-left, their foreign policies are very different, and unfortunately, if you want to play on Argentine popular opinion the way K does, yes, being obnoxious towards Chile tends to go down well. I'll explain to you the big hang-up with Chile over 1982. We all know Chile was pro-British in the war (although Pinochet and Videla were friends at one point, but not after 1978), and that they "helped". In time we may discover the true nature of the SAS's botched covert operation "Mikado" which allegedly involved the assault on Rio Grande Air Base, the destruction of the Super Etendards and their Exocets, and the murder of their pilots. But what declassified documents revealed more recently was that the Argentine cruiser "ARA General Belgrano" was not first sighted by the nuclear sub "HMS Conqueror" but by an RAF Canberra PR-9 operating from Punta Arenas, Chile (323 Argentines died in the sinking). I'm not saying that's common knowledge in Argentina, but it provided a deeper insight into Chile's collaboration against Argentina, and the political establishment know how to capitalise on such revelations.
In short, I think the two countries, in spite on improved relations, will always retain a neighbourly scepticism towards each other, but so do Britain and France, Greece and Turkey and plenty of other nations.
With regards to PZ, I actually got the impression that Paraguayans (unfortunately I've never come across one in any forum!) were more grateful than anything else to actually HAVE an airline, lince LAP fell apart swiftly after Stroessner was toppled. Additionally, the Itaipu Dam, built and financed by Brazil, provides 75% of Paraguay's energy, so in Paraguay's case, given the run down state of the national infrastructure, I don't think they are in a position to be anti-Brazilian. I've never heard of runway blocks at ASU or protests/demonstrations against JJ. But not a lot of news ever leaves Paraguay, remember.
Juanr:
With all due respect, the reason Argentina differed/differs so much from the continent is because at one point it had the 4th highest GDP in the world (c.1890-1900) and the 7th largest economy (c.1945-50). And please don't misinterpret this, especially since I have Inca and Guarani blood, but Argentina is 83% percent white, 15% mestizo and less than 2% indigenous. Demographically, we are not the same as are northern neighbours, even if economically we are much closer than we like to think. Argentina's "rapprochement" towards the "rest of the continent" has been incredibly painful, even if you would like to see it as a "reality check". Maybe it is, but just accept our heritage is vastly different (even Chile had the Araucanos, which set them apart), and few Argentines are prepared to live with urban violence on the scale of Sao Paolo, Rio or Cali, or with banks without deposits, with a deteriorating infrastructure and a drug mafia interfering with every major institution in Buenos Aires province (gracias Duhalde). We were the envy of Latin America, and now we are the laughing stock. Not a pleasant transition and not something to be proud of. If Argentina had always been this way, fine (and some things haven't changed--corruption, fiscal and financial recklessness etc.), but it's all relatively new and no one's particularly happy about the new status quo. Argentina is basically the "newest member of club", but we are still questioning the "club".
As for my "continente de resentidos" remark, don't worry, that ESPECIALLY applies to Argentina. In many ways, we are all part of the same continent, but time will tell if that is a good or a bad thing. I'll remain neutral for now...
ARGinMIA From Argentina, joined Nov 2001, 485 posts, RR: 9 Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 451 times:
LVZXV yes.. i completely agree.. its also good to know that so far.. after every big crisis Argentina managed to recover fast.. we just need 2 presidents in a row.... so far.. we never had that...
SoAmSky From United States, joined Jan 2004, 297 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 433 times:
Hi XV,
"but Argentina is 83% percent white, 15% mestizo and less than 2% indigenous."
Is this relevant at all? Given the fact that Argentina has hit the ground pretty hard, among other things because of corruption, white blood hasn't set you apart from your neighbors, has it?
"because at one point it had the 4th highest GDP in the world (c.1890-1900)" Before you continue lecturing on your prehistoric knowledge, why don't you talk about the super inflation Argentina faced before recent Menen administration.
XV, I think you need a job to keep your mind occupied, this European wanna be thing is not doing you any good... just kidding!
LVZXV From Finland, joined Mar 2004, 1976 posts, RR: 51 Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 406 times:
SoAmSky, compañero,
I was only quoting those figures to distinguish Argentina from Colombia, in response to juanr's comments. All I am saying is that since Europe turned its bak on Argentina after 1958, Argentina had little "fall-back", and the string of coups, revolutions, dictators and dirty wars that followed were something not many had anticpated. The "Cordobazo" of 1969 was modelled entirely on the May 1968 uprising in France, as an example. Culturally, Argentina was going through a similar roller-coaster up till the -70s as Europe.
I'm not saying it was the right thing to do, to become so close to Europe, but facts are facts and the past will change for no one. Bear in mind that at the time of Perón, where in most Latin American countries a dictator like him could count on the votes and support of the disenfranchised indigenous, in Argentina he banked on the newly arrived immigrants from Italy and Spain who formed the new urban working class in and around Buenos Aires.
Instead of patronising me and keeping a closed mind, why don't you listen to some of the "prehistoric knowledge" I give you. For all that's gone wrong in Argentina in recent decades (you forgot the hyperinflation of the 1970s too), the country still has the potential to become the wealthiest in the Hispanic world, but with the meantality of the "vagos" who pervade society there (of all colours and creeds), that dream is becoming depressingly distant.
SoAmSky From United States, joined Jan 2004, 297 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 387 times:
Hi XV,
"Instead of patronising me and keeping a closed mind, why don't you listen to some of the "prehistoric knowledge" I give you."
XV, believe me, I listen. But sometimes I fail to see the picture with the same perspective even with your own facts. I don't doubt Argentina has unique historic heritage that makes it different, but that can be said about many other nations in Latin America. Does this Italy and Spain migration make you more European, African, Asian instead of Latin American? No, you're just Argentinean who, of course, are going to be different from Peruvians for instance. But just as a Peruvian is going to be different from a Chilean or a Brazilian.
Venezuela used to be a wealthy nation with a GDP greater than many European nations that belong today to the first world. For that matter they also had important immigration, yet I don't remember once Venezuelans saying they were European or something else. I don't reckon Chileans feel aryan having the highest income per capita in the south cone nowadays. They are Latin American, and they are proud.
"the country still has the potential to become the wealthiest in the Hispanic world"
Amen for that. Remember that potential is bestowed by wonderful resources in your Latin American location.
BTW, ¿Tienes una foto de la reina mundial de Azafatas? I'd like to see her.
Regards
P.S. I'm glad you have a job. I was worry about you
LVZXV From Finland, joined Mar 2004, 1976 posts, RR: 51 Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 376 times:
SoAmSky:
Thank you for your balanced reply. Unfortunately, I don't have a picture of the reina mundial de azafatas. If I'd known who she was at the time, I could have asked her to pose for a photo, but in Argentina you can get blasé about pretty azafatas! She goes by the name of Carina Andrada, a very tanned, green-eyed brunette. Her colleague looked Scandinavian, so I really have few reasons to complain about A4! If ever you take A4 between MAd and EZE, the chances are high that you'd see her. I don't know if she'll be on the MD-11s.
My signature indicates that in the nine times I've flown on LAN, their azafatas didn't blow me over...
Relayze From United States, joined Feb 2004, 115 posts, RR: 4 Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 371 times:
I think Chile is causing Aerocontinente to go down the drain. The US of A is helping Chile do that, but Im not sure what are the real reasons for that. It also seems that Chile is trying to destroy Aerocontinente because last year Peru closed and kicked Luchetti out of Peru. They were the biggest pasta-manufacturing and producing company Chile had in peru. Its just MHO.
Arcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2310 posts, RR: 33 Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 340 times:
Relayze: "I think Chile is causing Aerocontinente to go down the drain. The US of A is helping Chile do that"
What are you based on to say that? LAN is a private airline, and I don't think the Chilean government would act based on LA believes to accuse them. LA was a very tough competitor to N6, but I really doubt the Chilean government is doeing something against now. They can't. The charges against N6 are not invented by any Chilean. If you say: "Chile did not made things easy for N6", maybe...Are we behind the bad fame of N6? I doubt it!
XV: again, in 1982 Argentina was "the enemy", and I'm sure Argentina would suppor any country in war with Chile at the time. It's not now.
I agree with you: I don't see a near future where both countries will love and trust each other blindly, but as you say, neither France and England, but it's not a reason that keep them apart or not working together, I think theirs is a very good example for our people. But you just stay in the past! Why only remember 1982? why do you remember 1910 as the Argentine glory? come on, look forward!
As you said, Argentina has a great potential, but I disagree with you about it's the country with the highest potential. Development is not based only on natural resources or agro industry. Japan has nothing of those and look where they are. Argentina has resources, Bolivia has minerals, Venezuela has oil, Brazil has industry, Chile has know how in some areas. How can you be so sure about the "welthiest" future of your country? Edonism doesn't lead people to development, work and discipline does. You were the envy of Latin America? yes, but so was Peru during colonial times. What difference does it makes now? Isn't behind this "obnoxious feeling" against Chile any sort of envy as well? Pure crap
I really don't understand one thing: "Acomplejado por los andes". What do you people mean by that? Nunca lo habia escuchado, we deal with our own complejos, but this is not something I recognize. Would be the same that we call "complejo del ultimo lugar del mundo"?
As for our "ultra conservative" society, I also disagree. You'll see, as sometimes happen with USA, the oficial speach is indeed very conservative, but our people, the common Chilean, is pretty open minded. Remember Argentine queers travel to Chile for sex change surgery. We have a nasty "double standard", a gap between what people think and what is said in the news. Conservative wing is very mighty here: they have media, but this doesn't mean we are actually a conservative society. We do have this "isolation" complex, though. I mean, we have Menem married to our queen! how can we be conservative .
Again to aviation: do you also think that Souther winds is in danger if LA entered there? Aren't enough room for all of them?
SOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2476 posts, RR: 19 Reply 25, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 329 times:
think Chile is causing Aerocontinente to go down the drain.
What? Maybe you meant LAN; and in that case it is also perfectly understandable that as a private company they chase their own goals, even if it means that part of the competition went out.
The US of A is helping Chile do that, but Im not sure what are the real reasons for that.
So that statement isn't worth posting. simple.
If you are so kind, please enlighten us with arguments that support your statements, even if their are just opinions...
SOUTHAMERICA
26 LVZXV: Arcano: What's the longest amount of time you have ever spent in Argentina, out of curiosity? I ask you this because I want to know how long it would
27 Arcano: Hi again: I've been many times in Argentina since 1989. I know Buenos Aires, Mendoza and Neuquen. If some moves I want to make with my job goes well,
28 ARGinMIA: LVZXV I have to COMPLETELY disagree with your last post.. Things are getting much better in Argentina in the last year or so.. I left Argentina in 199
29 Arcano: ArginMia? Do you really want me to answer you? Post like that are the best examples of envy. Ok, you met some idiot treating bad an employee, this doe
30 LVZXV: Arcano: I've been in and out of Argentina since 1984, and the bulk of my (large) family lives there permanently. Since 1989, a year in which at a youn
31 Arcano: XV: I know Boca and San Isidro. I agree with your comments. This figures, believe or not, are pretty close to our reality: as the old model: Groups: A
32 LVZXV: Arcano: Do you know Chile's GDP per capita? I'm still puzzled. Much of Chile seems to live, let's say, "modestly"--Puerto Montt, Valdivia, Punta Arena
33 LVZXV: Back to aviation, no, LAN cannot register any of their 732s in Argentina unless their engines are HK3-equipped (are they?). They will have to free up
34 Arcano: XV: Our GDP per Capita (corrected by PPP) is about US$10.000. The recent valuation of the Chilean peso has adjusted the figure and it's less than it w
35 LVZXV: Thanks for sharing your knowledge of Chile. It's funny, just before the crisis Argentina's GDP per capita was US$10,600. Also, as I'm sure you've seen
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just kidding!
She goes by the name of Carina Andrada, a very tanned, green-eyed brunette. Her colleague looked Scandinavian, so I really have few reasons to complain about A4! If ever you take A4 between MAd and EZE, the chances are high that you'd see her. I don't know if she'll be on the MD-11s.
From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2476 posts, 
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