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NW Goes After Indy Air At LAN  
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5819 times:

Looks like NW is none too pleased with Indy's lowfare service at LAN.

Who would have ever thought NW would fly LAN-IAD?

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040611/cgf013_1.html

67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6476 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5774 times:

Don't
Mess
With
Big Red!!!!


User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3292 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5761 times:

Plus bonus miles, too! It must be a high yield market that they want to protect.

User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4506 posts, RR: 33
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5748 times:

Of course, if NWA drives Indy Air out of the LAN-IAD market, they're going to keep all four of those nonstop RJ flights, and charge the same low fares Indy Air is going to offer, on an ongoing basis. Northwest's only concern is to offer the best service to Lansing at low, reasonable fares. I'd imagine NWA is probably scratching their heads to figure out what other routes they can nun nonstop from LAN at low fares.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 2005 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5751 times:

NW has made it clear that the Midwest is it's turf and it will do whatever it takes to protect it....new flights at MKE...increased advertising prescene in the region...etc.

User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5743 times:

How successful do you think NW will be on that route?


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineRockyRacoon From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 974 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5734 times:

More Successful than Indy Big grin


peace


User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3704 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5720 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

As much as I hate to say it, Good job Northwest! I hope that Indy Air gets their @ss handed to them by big red!


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5701 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

IMHO - I think NW saw what happened in FNT with FL and does not want a repeat of it. On the other hand the traveling public in Michigan should remember what happened when NW pilots went on strike and just how they were held hostage for that period of time.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineFjnovak1 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 611 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5680 times:

Is NW increasing aircraft size or # of flights on the DTW-IAD route?? I believe that is mostly DC9 and 319s right now; wouldn't be surprised to see them quietly make all those flights on 320s and 757s...


Go Blue!!
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5676 times:

CRJs are going to be used...although i am sure they have plenty of DC-9s  Big grin


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineKITH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 378 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5653 times:

It's not just NW, look at DAL http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=danews.story&STORY=/www/story/06-11-2004/0002191619&EDATE=FRI+Jun+11+2004,+10:00+AM

User currently offlineKITH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 378 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5654 times:

Sorry, for those lazy people out there...myself included http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=danews.story&STORY=/www/story/06-11-2004/0002191619&EDATE=FRI+Jun+11+2004,+10:00+AM

User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4506 posts, RR: 33
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5643 times:

We lazy people appreciate your kindness, KITH. Big grin What's interesting about Delta's response is that it marks a problem network carriers typically haven't faced from LCC"s before: frequency. Indy is the first large LCC to offer the kind of frequency and tight connection possibilities typically offered by network carriers. We'll probably see more such responses from other network carriers.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineSmcmac32msn From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5637 times:

GO BIG RED! At first I always thought that NW was pushy with its routes and what it does at its airports. But now I'm starting to see the light and NW was, is, and always will be... KING SUPREMO!


Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
User currently offlineVivavegas From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 505 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5633 times:

Seems kinda a shame they didn't do 4x DC-9 service, Richard has mentioned in the past they can operate a DC-9 cheaper than an RJ. Give the "premium" passengers a first class and 2500 WP miles and bye-bye Indy air.

As mentioned earlier, the number of Low-Fare seats on Indy are very few, I have found them much more expensive on the routes I've priced them on.

Where are the -9's flying these days? With all this CRJ flying from NW recently and not a whole lot of -9 retirements lately they have got to be hiding them somewhere?

Craig
MKE



MKE / EYW / LAS - The true trifecta of aviation!
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5620 times:

speaking of Independence Air...who is flying them on Tuesday when they take to the skies? I have to wait until August 15 to fly them  Sad


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineSmcmac32msn From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5611 times:

Vivavegas- MSN is getting quite a few -9's these days. Maybe they don't like MKE.  Big grin


Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4600 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5592 times:

It is amazing that a market with 57 passengers per day is going from no nonstop service to now 9 flights a day on 50 seat jets or 450 seats per day. This just screams anti-competitive. It would be one thing if Indy Air was going into an establish NW market, but this is crazy. It makes you wonder about this airline sometimes. Toledo has been trying to get them to do MSP and MEM service for years...Northwest's response has always been "We will not overfly the DTW hub." MSP is the #8 O&D city from TOL and the largest airline in the market currently is ATA. Sure NW could be a little gun shy from FNT, but I haven't seen anything stop them in the past from doing this. How about nonstop service to the major cities in the northeast, Florida, Vegas?

It is a shame that these majors opress these smaller markets for years and when someone finally comes along who is willing to offer the service, they try to kill them. Not asking for any good faith efforts here, but if Indy Air is ran out of the market - I doubt NW will maintain the service. It will be interesting to see the reaction if/when Indy Air starts service into TOL.


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3941 posts, RR: 27
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5527 times:

This is so stupid... an airline jumps in to a market, NW counter acts with COMPETITION and the idiots on this board cry predator. Did you happen to even look at what NWA might be doing on the DTW-IAD route? Indy is launching that one too. I'm sure if NW matches prices and steps up the competition between DTW and IAD, it'll be predatory too. One only has to look at the "checklist" and see that "building our network" is on there. That is exactly what NWA is doing. LAN is the capital of the state of MI... What is TOL? Perhaps NWA sees more $$$ with this new LAN service than they see with TOL right now. But of course, NWA has no clue what they're doing.
Yup.. That's it. I sure hope you people are squawking about AA and their DFW-LAX moves as well as the other markets where airlines are COMPETING!


AZJ


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 20, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5500 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Ouboy79

You said it and hit the nail on the head.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineWmupilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1473 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5471 times:

Michigan is Northwest terrority. They will do anything to keep it that way. After what happened in FNT with FL and ATA they won't let it happen again.


JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5458 times:

Why did ATA pull out of LAN?


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7591 posts, RR: 27
Reply 23, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5381 times:

NW owns LAN, end of story.
NW wants to teach everyone a lesson not to mess with their territory in the Midwest/Great Lakes Region.

I get sick of reading this DOJ crap. Its been proven time and time again by the higher-ups that competition is allowed in the airline industry. I bet NW can run those CRJ's for nearly the same costs as Indy Air.



User currently offlineFjnovak1 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 611 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5288 times:

What makes me wonder though is given that there are 57 people a day flying the LAN-IAD market, how is NW gonna fill those planes? For Indy's 5 dailies one can assume that many of those passengers might be continuing on to other Indy desinations like GSP, SAV, CHS, CAE, ATL, RDU, etc... Lets assume that there are also 57 people flying to DCA and BWI for arguments sake, and the price on the routing sways 75% of them to fly to IAD. Lets also assume that the presence of a new low-fare carrier stimulates air travel by something like 15% (the so-called 'southwest effect')...Lets also assume for arguments sake that these CRJs operated by NW will be the 44 seat CR4 jets, since I believe the 44's outnumber the 50-seaters (press release indicated the jets seat UP TO 50 passengers).

Thus, NW is adding 176 seats in the market (4 times 44 seats)
There are 57 people locally traveling LAN-IAD
86 people is 75% of 57 times 2 (calculation for demand of swayed travelers previously traveling to BWI and DCA)

Thats 143 people....and add 15% you get about 165 people... Thus, the way I see it, because NW has no connection opportunities at IAD for a local LAN passenger besides perhaps a KLM flight to AMS, they'd have to get nearly all of the O & D traffic on the LAN-IAD route PLUS sway travelers previously traveling to Baltimore and Reagan-National to fly NW Airlink instead.

What gives?? 4 seems excessive...I would figure you'd need 3 to establish a schedule even remotely business-friendly though... still, even though I am Pro-Northwest, I believe this would be a fair challenge to the DOJ. If 57 people is it daily for the route (if that is really the number), the given facts above would seem to indicate a predatory move on NW's part (flooding the market)...

Thoughts?????



Go Blue!!
25 PSU.DTW.SCE : Yes, but NW will argue that they are poaching their DTW-IAD/DCA traffic that is coming from the far Western outskirts of the Greater Metro area, such
26 AZO : Maybe I missed this part, but isn't it part of the pilots' contract at NW that the regionals must fly through (to/from) a hub? PSU or AZJ could clear
27 Dan-air : Northwest has only one goal here: squash the upstart and get back to business as usual - their monopoly where NWA sets the prices. They ain't competin
28 Sllevin : If this was an important market to NWA, why weren't they offering these services BEFORE Indy stepped in? Because it's better for NW to funnel those fo
29 Kcrwflyer : how is Nw going to beat indy there? Theyed have to get there fares down to about 60$ roundtrip. Again im not sure of how much indy will be charging, b
30 Kcrwflyer : I just checked and LAN's O&D to Washington DC and its 72 passengers per day. ok. Math time people. 4 crj's at 50 seats a piece = 200 seats. ok still w
31 Iowaman : This is so stupid... an airline jumps in to a market, NW counter acts with COMPETITION and the idiots on this board cry predator. Tough luck, competit
32 NWDC10 : I live in the Seattle area so i didn't know the LAN-IAD market till i looked it up. No non-stops till now (Indy air took action in serving both airpor
33 Syncmaster : "I just checked and LAN's O&D to Washington DC and its 72 passengers per day" I think, as others have said too, that that number could potentially ris
34 Azjubilee : As far as the NWA scope goes... an "RJ" is considered to have 50 or more seats. Therefore, the 44 seat CRJs are exempt from scope, therefore legal to
35 Tango-Bravo : "Competitive" move by NW? Gimme a break!!! Yet another reactionary move by a legacy airline who just doesn't get it -- it's not about new competitors
36 Jfklganyc : I am curious of how Indy will make this work even without the NW flights. Although the same holds true for the frequency they are planning in many cit
37 Doninfc : I really don't get some people on this board. All of you who are cheering NW on and wishing the quick demise of Indy Air are fooling yourselves. IF In
38 Bicoastal : Lower fares should increase the number of travelers so don't look at existing numbers. Hopefully NW will capture those new travelers who either wouldn
39 CXA330300 : I am of the belief that NW is trying to keep their monopoly, which is being anti-competitive, and I think breaking some sort of anti-trust law. Anyway
40 PSU.DTW.SCE : I'm glad some of you are as smart as the DOJ. Oh well, this argument always comes up. There is a line between being competitive and breaking the rules
41 PSU.DTW.SCE : Also, its funny that NW's LAN-IAD starts 2 days earlier than Indy Air's, nice way to quiet the fan-fare.
42 Doninfc : Many of you may not remember what NW pulled in the early/mid 90s with Reno Air. Reno Air announced new service between RNO and MSP with 2 flights a da
43 N312RC : Reno Air stepped in to NW's territory at DTW and didnt last long. NW drove them out of here so quick that it made heads spin (or roll..) EDIT: added t
44 Post contains images Kcrwflyer : "Fares between MSP and Reno were raised back up about 300% and the people of Minneapolis continue to get F**ked in the ass by NW for years to come. G
45 Doninfc : N312RC: excellent article. It certainly validates what some of us have been saying. Thanks for posting. Don
46 Coronado990 : If NW is so interested in all of a sudden serving the people of Lansing with non-stops to Washington DC, then why are they not expanding into the New
47 Tango-Bravo : Jfklganyc writes: I am curious of how Indy will make this work even without the NW flights. Although the same holds true for the frequency they are pl
48 PSU.DTW.SCE : I agree that of course this is preditory, but not illegal from the point of view that someone takes. My response, is ok...what SHOULD NW do? Any taker
49 Iowaman : My thoughts as well. Much as I would like to see Indy Air succeed, I have a moneyless wager with a co-worker (at a major airline) that Indy Air will n
50 Tjwgrr : NW is going to need to do more than offer cheap fares and flights from LAN-IAD. For example, Departing 13-Sept returning 16-Sept, 2004 (Mon-Thur, no w
51 Isitsafenow : TJWGRR. Take it to the bank...those NW fares will go down. NW will notice their bookings to your listed cities from LAN will drop off and they will co
52 Post contains images Tjwgrr : Isitsafenow: So, what does one of your "Deep Throats" say about Indy Air into GRR? The drive to LAN isn't bad, but GRR is still more convenient. Enqui
53 MikeM2648 : I find it kinda of nuts how much the overall capacity in LAN will be increasing. Our airport has been very sad over the last few years and it seems r
54 Ny-jfk-lga : I'm torn here, I'm a furloughed nwa fa, and now independence cabin crew. This is going to be really tough for me because I'll do anything for both of
55 Alpha 1 : It is a shame that these majors opress these smaller markets for years and when someone finally comes along who is willing to offer the service, they
56 Juanchie : The only people getting screwed over our the poor people from Lansing. Sure, for a short time period, they will have hundreds of seets a day and lower
57 NWAFA : Alpha, You hit it all on the head! It is about CAPITALISM! Being RESPONSABLE to SHARE-HOLDERS and EMPLOYEES. The ones crying over and over and over an
58 DCA-ROCguy : I for one would fly a NW DC-9 any day of the week. As long as it works financially for NW to keep them around, it's neat to see that classic workhorse
59 NWA Man : I'll take a look at this from a different angle... So NW begins 4x daily CRJ service between Lansing and Dulles to compete with Independence Air's new
60 NWA Man : (adding to my previous post...) The fares that Tjwgrr quoted above were midweek, "consultant special" Mon-Thu fares, the bread and butter of the legac
61 AGrayson514 : One thing to think about is that NW will not have connecting service to anywhere from IAD, whereas in the future, Independence Air will. ~ Andrew Gray
62 Jano : One little correction to the above post. There is KL 651/652 IAD-AMS.
63 NWA Man : One thing to think about is that NW will not have connecting service to anywhere from IAD, whereas in the future, Independence Air will. Right (except
64 Kcrwflyer : "Also its the 15-25 year olds who are making childish comments (like juanchie,KcrwFlyer" ok i know i do sometimes, how much do you expect me to know?
65 Kcrwflyer : was it what i said about not benefiting the customer in any way?
66 DCA-ROCguy : So even though NW's response at LAN is perfectly rational from within NW's perspective, as Alpha and others haven't noted, it's still sleazy. This sen
67 Isitsafenow : Alpha 1 can go to work for me anyday. I like his attitude. Look gang, if someone wants to take something that has been yours for a while, you fight ba
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