Ord747cle From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 239 posts, RR: 0 Posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5132 times:
Does anyone have any insight into what some of United's worst routes are at the moment? Perhaps they are considering pulling out of certain markets/decreasing frequencies?
Threads appear frequently on their best routes, but what are some of the routes they're struggling with.
StevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4969 times:
Maybe Sydney-Los Angeles?
Ummmm.....based on what?
Everything I keep hearing/reading on this website is that SYD-LAX is one of UA's more profitable routes. Why would they want to discontinue it? Do you know something the rest of us don't? The US and Australia have an open-skies agreement, yet no other carrier has entered the market. What does that tell you?
Last time I checked, only QF and UA operate SYD-LAX, and UA only operates SYD-SFO.
Cory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 6 Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4933 times:
Since no other carrier has entered the market, that tells me that it apparently isn't profitable enough to make the service worth starting.
N328KF From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 6222 posts, RR: 3 Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4902 times:
Cory6188:
Or it could be that it's profitable enough now, but divide the traffic up with another carrier and it becomes unprofitable.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
N670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1595 posts, RR: 8 Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4888 times:
What other carrier would make that route work? There are no other carriers right now that have the logistics in place to make the flight work. United does.
Dinker225 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1049 posts, RR: 20 Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4864 times:
The loads are not light. Every flight I have ever taken on that route has been packed. Including the flight yesterday. I was on it and there was one empty seat in economy. Most likely because the guy didn't show up. And with the amount of 747's Qantas has daily in Los Angeles something must be looking up for this route or they would drop the frequency too.
Dinker
Two rules in aviation, don't hit anything and don't run out of gas, cause if you run out of gas yer gonna hit something.
N670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1595 posts, RR: 8 Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4857 times:
I could see CO starting A SYD from Houston flight
That may work, but it would require a C-market aircraft, of which CO does not have.
Gemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5219 posts, RR: 6 Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4749 times:
StevenUhl777
The US & Australia DO NOT have an OPEN SKY Agreement!!! The Oz government will not negotiate trade agreements on an industry by industry basis. However the recently concluded, but as yet unratified, Australia/US Free Trade Agreement's only referance to Aviation is in an annex to the main agreement, which is a letter from US State dept saying they agree to further negotiations on aviation.
Having said that the current bi lateral treaty is pretty free, ANY US airline that wants to operate to OZ can do so as there is unused US capacity in the agreement. It just has to get approval from US authorities. US State dept then notifies OZ government of the details,which then has to approve the flights. If they are within the parameters of the current bilateral treaty this approval is a formality and will be quickly issued. If the proposal is outside the current bilateral then negotiations must take place, this can delay things, but not for long in the current climate.
So why are there not at least two US carriers to OZ? (HA doesn't count(yet))
Because they don't believe that they can make money on the route OR (& more likely) they believe they can make a better "return on investment" that is MORE money, elsewhere.
While currently flights are full, they are still relatively expensive flights to operate and a lot of traffic is low yield, so they are not necessily the most profitable. They lack of more US operators rather suggests that this is the case.
I have said it before and I'll say it again, the US - SW Pacific is a difficult route to operate, its long, its thin and it has compertision that will fight you to the death because they have no where else to go! What ever happens, on the US-SW Pacific route - 2nd last carrier standing = QF. Last carrier standing = NZ.
StevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4706 times:
Thanks Gemuser...
I had based my commend off what I had seen posted in other threads on the same topic, though the current state of aviation rights between OZ and the US seems to fall in that gray area. Not open skies, but not tightly controlled, either.
I was confused about your comment about HA...are they not a US carrier? They started HNL-SYD, making them the 2nd US airline to OZ, though not nonstop from California like UA and QF.
UAMAYBACH1239 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 221 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4000 times:
United is not having a problem selling tickets for SYD. The problem is flying to or from the states usually means you are going to have a plane on the ground between 8-12 hrs. UA has plenty of planes but they dont own them. so without cutting the flts. they suspended a few and try to send the 47's on higher frequencies. If 1st and Business 70% full and coach 67% full, with full mail and cargo it is said they pull in about 1Mil.USD each way.
Jetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2785 posts, RR: 15 Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2520 times:
To get back onto topic...
I think United's routes into ATL aren't too profitable. From Chicago, they compete with AirTran, Delta, American and ATA (I think). From DEN, they compete with AirTran, Delta, and Frontier. From D.C, they compete with AirTran, Delta, and soon FlyI. Basically, their routes from ATL are surrounded by LCC action.
JetBluefan1
Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
N178UA From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1626 posts, RR: 69 Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2445 times:
I am invited to a meeting with UA GM Stephen Pearse in SYD 2 weeks later, I will ask him about this, but having flown SYD-LAX and SYD-SFO regularly as a pax last 5 years, I have to say SYD-LAX have very strong business class and first class flyers bases and flight running 60-70% full in low season, and close to 100% full in shoulder and high season. Get me a seat in V or W class in July...very difficult. Please don't write something base on what you think without proven facts. Check UA site for traffic release for load factors.
Gemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5219 posts, RR: 6 Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1883 times:
StevenUhl777
Of course HA is a US carrier! But its service into SYD is really an odd ball operation, that does not fit into the general topic of Oz/NZ-US flights, so I except it from most comments.
The reason it dosent fit is that the main game Oz/NZ - US is NON stop flights! Nobody is going to take a multi stop flight if they dont have to. (OK some low yeild tourist traffic excepted). So HA does not compete in the main game.
However I will be watching the HA service into SYD very closely because they seem to be trying something different this time, good connections to/from west coast cities, NOT LAX & SFO. It will be wonderful if they can make HNL into even a mini hub again, while making a profit of course, as from the 1930s to 1980s HNL was one of the world great aviation cross roads and hubs.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21245 posts, RR: 19 Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1776 times:
B6 fan: TZ does not serve ATL, and I disagree with you about UA's ORD-ATL route. IAD-ATL is all express (Air Whisky I think), and there would be no reason for UA to fly mainkine jets to ATL if they were not making a profit. ORD-ATL has the O&D to support a fair amount of competition, and there is obviously significant connection going on at both ends as well.
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MasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 4726 posts, RR: 7 Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1756 times:
I suspect that UAL's worst routes, by which I mean routes making the biggest losses, are probably domestic, specifically the JFK and BOS transcons where Jetblu and America West are killing yields. If I had to pick one, I'd say JFK-LAX.
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But its service into SYD is really an odd ball operation, that does not fit into the general topic of Oz/NZ-US flights, so I except it from most comments.
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