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747 Orders Beat The 777 4 Times This Year!  
User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10752 posts, RR: 9
Posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7926 times:

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm

Not bad for the "old" Queen of the skies!

Korean Air has just ordered two more 747-4B5ER Fs.

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWarren747sp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1167 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7845 times:

Thank God for the 744 Freighter business.
But they are not selling too many 7444ER passenger version except to Qantas,
I don't see the trend continuing too much longer.



747SP
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7821 times:

Looks like the ANZ 777 has not shown up on the site yet.

User currently offlineSafetyDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3795 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7766 times:

What are those 19 "unidentified" orders of the 737 and 767?

 Smile
-Will



"She Flew For What We Stand For"
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 853 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7704 times:

Uhumm...Qantas getting A388 instead of B744ER!
Hellooooo  Big grin

Mike/SE



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7579 times:

Air freight is a healthy part of the industry, and the 747 was originally designed with freight in mind. That's where the 'lump' came from after all!

As a freight hauler, only the Antonovs can compare to its flexibility so the 744F will continue to attract orders from that sector. Even the A380F is limited to standard shipping containers, as it doesn't have nose or tail loading.


User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5032 posts, RR: 44
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7535 times:

As a freight hauler, only the Antonovs can compare to its flexibility so the 744F will continue to attract orders from that sector.

While I hope you're right (it's hard not to love the 747) let's not forget that in the coming yeras quite a few airlines will start ditching their 747-400 passenger aircraft. This might pose a serious threat to the market for new 747s...


User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7494 times:

While I hope you're right (it's hard not to love the 747) let's not forget that in the coming yeras quite a few airlines will start ditching their 747-400 passenger aircraft. This might pose a serious threat to the market for new 747s...

I think that the 747 aftermarket will be healthy enough. As for the 747-400SF program, there hasn't really been anything concrete regarding how Boeing proposes doing the conversion. Namely whether they will be offering a nose-job on them!

The emerging markets in China will be a good place to look to for a large number of 747F orders, whether new-build or conversions. As economies expand, goods need moving.


User currently offlineRoberta From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7463 times:

I am not debating A388 vs. 744ER

but you said

the A388 is not the end-all, be-all.

so on some level you are.

and Solnablo never said they were replacing the 744ER's with A380's. He just said they probably wont be getting any more, or something like that.


User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 853 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7363 times:

U are so right, Roberta! Xactly what I said....or wrote  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineCwapilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7207 times:

Nice attempt at covering your arse, roberta, but, as usual, you have tripped over your own arrogance. No, I was not debating 744/388 on ANY level; just pointing out that the two aircraft are not mutually exclusive...they will fullfill 2 different missions within QF.

Flea boy was responding to "But they are not selling too many 744ER passenger version except to Qantas," with a statement that they were getting the A388 instead...factually wrong, since the orders for the two were placed roughly within the same time period. He didn't say they weren't getting anymore, nor has Qantas said they are not getting anymore. If that's what he meant to say, then he should have said it.



Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
User currently offlineYUL332LX From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7119 times:

As for the 747-400SF program, there hasn't really been anything concrete regarding how Boeing proposes doing the conversion. Namely whether they will be offering a nose-job on them!

What's not concrete? CX is the launch customer for the 744SP. Conversion for CX's a/c will be made by Taikoo and take place in Xiamen (China). There will be no nose job on these 744; only a SCD installation.



E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
User currently offlineRoberta From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7090 times:

Nice attempt at covering your arse,

Nice attempt at covering yours as well.

No, I was not debating 744/388 on ANY level

then in the same sentance you go on to debate the two aircraft.

just pointing out that the two aircraft are not mutually exclusive

And i was just pointing out that the 744 is almost totally obselete given you only have to fill 36 more seats on an A380 to break even. I guess landing fees and a few other things would be cheaper, like purchase price.

"But they are not selling too many 744ER passenger version except to Qantas,"

Actually they arent selling any 744ER's to QF

And they are in the process of selling/delivering A380's to QF

And throw in the fact that Solnabo's first language is not English

"Qantas getting A388 instead of B744ER!" is true.


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9187 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7024 times:

Qantas will operate both B 747-400/400ER as well as the A 380. Will likely see more of both aircraft types.

Boeing will come up with this new B 747 Advanced soon and hopefully we will see a lot more orders.

Regards.


User currently offlineBlackbird1331 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1893 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6991 times:

So typical of an A.net thread. I would buy a Learjet and put the rest of the money in the bank. My bank.


Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
User currently offlineBlackbird1331 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1893 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6844 times:

Did I tell you the one about the dog on a flea's ass? Had a hell of a time finding a flea collar.


Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6344 times:

I am not debating A388 vs. 744ER

but you said

the A388 is not the end-all, be-all.

so on some level you are.


No,he is more pointly out to those who compare the 388 to the 744/ER that they don't always compete directly.36 seats can mean a massive difference in profitability.


User currently offlineRoberta From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6225 times:

No,he is more pointly out

so he is sharing his point

so he is debating

thank you

36 seats can mean a massive difference in profitability.

dont worry the 34m2 extra cargo space should account for that.


User currently offlineCwapilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 5670 times:

Well, at least Donder gets it, so I know I am not crazy.

Debating the two aircraft would mean arguing about which is better. Clearly, I have not. You, on the other hand... And, since you want to get technical, no, they aren't selling A380s to QF anymore either...they already sold them, and they are waiting for them. QF officials have also left the door wide open to future 747 sales. They have stated a need for both the 747 and A380. It is doubtful they would be ordering any more of either type for quite some time in any case.

I should have known better than to have argued with a child with a chip on his shoulder who obviously knows it all.  Insane Now, I must fight my urge to get the last word in, anticipate the last flurry of ignorance that will inevitably come, and ignore it.



Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
User currently offlineGlideslope From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1618 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5553 times:

"well given you only have to fill 36 more seats than a 744ER to break even i think the A380's only disadvantage compared to the 747 will be flying into airports which cant handle the A380 in its early life."


I'll believe that when I see some real numbers. The 380 is already 10 tons overweight. We all know how accurate the 346 wing weight came in. : )



To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
User currently offlineAussie747 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5511 times:

QF will need more 744 and/or 744ER's quite soon. Given its requirement to add the following 744 services over the next 10 months it leaves QF with no more 744 capacity to add to the US market, which it will need no doubt for the US 2005 summer let alone for the 2004 Northern winter schedule.

4 new direct services HKG-LHR (to be linked from QF 187/188)
3 direct sevices SYD-SIN-LHR

it's SYD-BOM sevices will be by 743's whilst SYD-PVG and PER-HKG services by A333.

QF has been very pleased with 744ER on it's MEL-LAX services.


User currently offlinePropulsion From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 294 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5497 times:

What an interesting debate.

Cwapilot rightly declared that Qantas do operate 744ER's and that they may indeed find space in which to accommodate them in their fleet together with the A388 but for different roles. He also quite rightly contended that 'the A388 is not the end-all, be-all'.

Roberta: By writing this, Cwapilot, in my mind, simply meant that the A388 may not be seen as the definitive answer to all airlines need. There is scope in which to operate both so long as the differentials between particular services renders the ability to do so economically justifiable. He did not begin, nor outright advocate a battle against the A388. Cwapilot did not help matters by reference to the dogs rear end, but one could claim that Roberta's 'hellooooo' remark and general over reaction changed the tone of the debate and unnecessarily exacerbated the hostility of the debate.



A bus is a vehicle that runs twice as fast when you are after it as when you are in it.
User currently offlineTrevD From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 327 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5351 times:

Roberta - don't be so quick on those 36 seats suggesting the A380 will obsolete the 744 or 744ER. The numbers I've been shown suggest Airbus is showing breakeven with about 415 - 430 seats (depending on cost basis) or only an additional 30-40 seats more than a typical 375-400 seat 744.

That's about a 78% load factor for a 550 seat config. But I don't know anyone planning on using that many, I've heard SIA, QAN, Virgin all around the high 400's - low 500's. That drives the breakeven loads up to the mid 80's. The other side of the coin is the risk that represents. In a typical 400 seat config most international carriers breakeven on the 744 at around 70% load factor or about 280 seats. That means the difference between where a 747-400 starts earning profit before the A380 is around 135 seats, that's HUGE. I know a lot of customers who believe the size difference between the 744 and A380 represents a very large gap. If there is anything that potentially obsoletes the 744 it will be the 773ER - almost as many seats but with lower seat mile costs and trip costs.

I agree that Boeing has to make some decisions on the future of the 747 in the near term. If it does step forward with the 747 advanced it could bring a 450+ seat airplane to the market with seat mile costs in line with the 773ER and 772LR giving operators a range of airplanes from 300 seats up to 450 seats.

We'll see...

Regards,
Trev


User currently offlineJet-lagged From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 874 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5268 times:


this roberta/cwapilot/solnabo/others grammatical disection is silly.

but, what I really want to know is "Did I tell you the one about the dog on a flea's ass? Had a hell of a time finding a flea collar." <--- sorry, but I don't get it. or am I just ignorant?



User currently offlinePropulsion From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 294 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5157 times:

TrevD is quite right. Many an airline may believe that the size difference between the Boeing 747-400 and the Airbus A380 is quite large. Others may determine that the even greater difference in size between Boeing 777 variants and the A380 give the 747 a unique role for particular market segments.


A bus is a vehicle that runs twice as fast when you are after it as when you are in it.
25 Dreamcraft : I think the A380 will be a flop. Airbus is simply gunning for the title of 'largest bird in the sky' - so to speak. All Boeing needs to do is upgrade
26 AeroOzzie : "I'm sure to stoke the 'ire' of my European brothers in the forum. To them I say I am simply stating the facts as I see them i.e my opinion - time wil
27 Post contains images Iowaman : Ok, this is offically a A vs. B Thread!
28 Ken777 : The 747 still has an important place in passenger operations - it is the only plane in its range and will be selected for routes over the 380, just as
29 AeroOzzie : When I'm sizing wing spars and designing engine nacelle fairings, believe me, i'm far more passionate about using a computer equipped with FEM, CFD et
30 Elwood64151 : Er...right, the facts as you see them i.e. your opinion is in fact...FACT??? You loser. No. He said his opinion was based on the facts as he saw them.
31 Dreamcraft : Dear AeroOzzie, No need to get so personal. Like I said time will tell.
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