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Why So Few A345 Customers?  
User currently offlineMEA310 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2002, 660 posts, RR: 12
Posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4893 times:

I've checked Airbus' website,the orders&deliveries table in particular,and the A340-500 has only 21 orders with 11 already delivered.
SQ & EK are the only operators of this type so far,with the latest news in the forum that Air Canada will be taking deliveries of their two planes.
I was wondering why is the A345 only operated by the mentioned above airlines,why isn't anyone else oredring it?Is it the geographical location of the UAE & Singapore that imposed that EK & SQ go for with ultra long range A345,and therefore no other orders have been placed by other airlines?
Looking forward for your feedback,
Regards.

MEA310


M5 Fastest Sedan On Earth
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSk945 From Sweden, joined May 2002, 432 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4862 times:

Not many airlines need the range of the A345. Thats why its so few customers.

User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4859 times:

The A345/A346 and 772LR/773ER are nich aircraft with ultra long range that won't sell in large numbers


EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineYUL332LX From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4848 times:

...And why so few 772LR customers?

Niche aircraft, more expansive than the 343E/772ER. Unit cost on these a/c is higher than on the regular 343E/772ER so airlines have no incentives to buy and operate them on long haul routes that does not require the range of an A345/772LR.

Nothing more, nothing less...



[Edited 2004-06-12 20:23:02]


E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
User currently offlineAIR757200 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1579 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4833 times:


YUL332LX,

Great explanation...

You'll probably have to explain it again in two days when another "long range aircraft-so few customers" thread comes up.


User currently offlineRoberta From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4801 times:

SQ & EK are the only operators of this type so far,with the latest news in the forum that Air Canada will be taking deliveries of their two planes.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © French Frogs AirSlides



albeit its a private jet not in commercial service.

Is it the geographical location of the UAE & Singapore that imposed that EK & SQ go for with ultra long range

Well SQ wanted it for US flights as the range is a too far for their current jets.
EK wanted it for Long range flights, which could carry a lot of cargo and where pleased with the A345's hot and high takeoff performance out of DXB and its price.

TG have ordered 3 for US flights.

There is the possibility of QF ordering the A345.


User currently offlineMEA310 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2002, 660 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4754 times:

Roberta

I was referring to the A345 in commercial use only,I know about QR.
Thanks

MEA310



M5 Fastest Sedan On Earth
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 36
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4623 times:

Same reasons as the A342... Which is why AR is considering it instead of the A346.

XV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineLHMark From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 46
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4588 times:

Hmmm.. Strange, but when this question was asked of the Boeing 764, the answers were very different, and less well-considered.


"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4567 times:

Good call about of A345. If they want get more customers go on the orders with A345. They need to beefing up with more new nonstop into the world. There is no US airlines make on the orders with A345/6 either.

User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4546 times:

There is no US airlines make on the orders with A345/6 either

No US airlines have made an order for B772LRs/773ERs either



EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4536 times:

What are the major differences between the 345 and 346?
I just saw the 346 at the Berlin Air Show...could it be longer than a 747?
Is doing aerobatics in aircraft such a large aircraft really a good idea?????



Delete this User
User currently offlineVSXA380X800 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4503 times:

"Is it the geographical location of the UAE & Singapore that imposed that EK & SQ go for with ultra long range A345,and therefore no other orders have been placed by other airlines? "

I was following you until this part. Can you re phase this.

"Is doing aerobatics in a aircraft such a large aircraft really a good idea?????"

I really don't think this is a good idea either. I guess its how the wings are designed ,to be efficient, even at slow speeds. I went to the air show too, it was brilliant.



4 decks 4 engines 4 long haul
User currently offlineRoberta From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4502 times:

What are the major differences between the 345 and 346?

A345 + 7meter = A346
A346 + 1150nm's range = A345

I just saw the 346 at the Berlin Air Show...could it be longer than a 747?

yup by 5 meters, the 773Er is also 2-3m longer too.

Is doing aerobatics in aircraft such a large aircraft really a good idea?????

when empty, yes!


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4453 times:

A real niche bird, just like the 753, 764, 772LR. I've flown on the 753, 764, and the inaugural SQ A345 service LAX-SIN and love them all. IMO they all have the nicest aesthetic lines of their respective series and aren't bad to ride on either, particularly the 117 seat economy section on the SQ A345.

User currently offlineAussie747 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4419 times:

In April QF called for tenders for a LR aircraft it was between the 777 and the A340 (no model specified), so expect an order to be announced probably in August 19 (when their full year results or announced) or October 21 (date of their AGM). I wouldn't anticipate an announcement any earlier as most large fleet announcements are usually made around this time.



User currently offlinePropulsion From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 294 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4355 times:

The reasons have been well explained in this topic. The ultra-long range aircraft are simply not required in the huge numbers we see other aircraft acquired. They are generally expensive and harder to get rid of second-hand and beyond.

The A345 is also shorter than the A346 so it is not simply a case of 'A346+1150nm range'.



A bus is a vehicle that runs twice as fast when you are after it as when you are in it.
User currently offlineMEA310 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2002, 660 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3746 times:

If the need for long range aircrafts is not widely spread then why is Boeing proceeding with their 772LR program?

MEA310



M5 Fastest Sedan On Earth
User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3240 times:

If Boeing offer the 777 family to a customer, the 772LR ensures that Boeing can just about cover all mision requirements that customer might have.

The airline then won't need to look elsewhere for an ultra-long-range aircraft to do the nonstops, and it would make a 777 fleet purchase make even more sense.

PK bought three models of the family including the 777LR as this combination covered their perceived fleet needs. Being able to do that from one aircraft family made the deal look even better to them.


User currently offlineAC From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2004, 77 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3008 times:

A340-500 has only 21 orders with 11 already delivered

Really very few orders. I am wondering how many firm orders are required for Airbus to recover its development costs. I agree these ultra-long flights are niche aircrafts, otherwise there should be some big orders from those aircraft-leasing companies beside airlines.



I Believe I Can Fly...
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2595 times:

Same reasons as the A342

Actually, not at all.

The A342 went to hell because a plane [in the same family] came out that could do everything it could, and then some, at a cheaper seat cost.

That is not the case with the current two C-market aircraft offerings.


User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 36
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2582 times:

ConcordeBoy:

Which aircraft are you referring to? The A342 was designed to carry 240-300 pax 14,800km (8,000nm). The A343 carries 300 pax 13,500km (7,300nm), and neither the A332 nor the A333 come close in terms of range. Did Boeing produce anything around 1994 that boasted a greater range to the A342?

XV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2521 times:

The A342 was designed to carry 240-300 pax 14,800km (8,000nm).

No A342 to ever enter commercial service had anywhere near that range. In fact, only 1 [factory-built] did, and it became an executive jet.

The aircraft I'm referring to is the A343X


User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 36
Reply 23, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2483 times:

AR's 249-seat A342s have a range of 14,600km. Near enough.

XV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2469 times:

Notice I said "factory built" at EIS, which the below aircraft is the only example thereof:

View Large View Medium

Photo © Florian Eggenschwiler




AR's A342s were retrofitted to become -213Xs long after they'd already entered service.

[Edited 2004-06-14 03:51:39]

25 LVZXV : When were those retrofits of which you speak, since AR's A342s (listed everywhere as standard -211s) have been pretty busy since they entered service.
26 Gigneil : They have to be retrofits. No A342 ever flew 14,600 kms before the A340-213X. N
27 Vorticity : But aren't the A345 and B772LR concepts just so cool! Even if their isn't high demand, I think it's so cool they can make such a long flight. Anyone r
28 RayChuang : I think what might happen is that Airbus maybe looking at a even higher gross weight (HGW) version of the A340-600 beyond what was announced recently
29 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : since AR's A342s (listed everywhere as standard -211s) ...you mean like they are here too:
30 Post contains images LVZXV : Frank Schaefer seems to be the only photographer to list them as such. Just some other random examples: Good to see AR doing things differently, as al
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