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America West Dropping MTY Route  
User currently offlineAdriaticus From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1117 posts, RR: 19
Posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2351 times:

<< AmWest might halt daily flights to Monterrey, Mexico

Jonathan J. Higuera
The Arizona Republic
Jun. 15, 2004 11:45 AM


A highly touted America West Airlines flight connecting Phoenix with the Mexican industrial city Monterrey will be eliminated unless passenger traffic picks up, America West officials said.

The daily flight has been losing in the six figures every month since it started last October, said C.A. Howlett, the airline's senior vice president of public affairs.

"Unfortunately, Monterrey is on life support right now," he said. "It's largely dependent on business travel and there doesn't seem to be enough of it. The route is not ramping up."

State officials and others have cited the flight as an important link in the state's expanded international trade strategy. The 50-passenger regional jet is operated by Mesa Air Group under the America West banner.

America West officials have been discussing the situation with Gov. Janet Napolitano as well as officials at Sky Harbor International Airport and in Monterrey.

"We're seeing what we can done to stimulate business," Howlett said. "If not, we'll have to make a classical business decision."

Unlike most of the other Mexican cities America West flies to, the Monterrey flight does not attract many leisure travelers. The city is roughly 400 miles south of Laredo, Texas.

"We're in 12 cities in Mexico and one in Central America, with only one not working," Howlett said. "I wouldn't want to leave the impression there is not good business in Mexico just because it's not working out in Monterrey."
>>

America West is using CRJ900's in this PHX-MTY route.


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19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCOEWRNJ From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1061 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2213 times:

I believe HPEX is just using one of the basic CRJ-200's on the route. The CRJ-900 has a capacity greater than 50. Any way it's too bad HP is having a hard time making this service work.

User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2159 times:

Yeah, what happening with MTY service is discontinue soon?

User currently offlineCessnaLady From Mexico, joined May 2004, 310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2131 times:

This is strange. I remember reading here in a.net, awhile ago, how AmWest made very deep investigation into profitability of routes. If I were them, I would rather try to codeshare with 6A, AM, MX, 5L in order to "capture" passengers... All of them have intense operation to/from MTY.

Marie


User currently offlineFlyinfroggie From United States of America, joined May 2004, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2070 times:

...a little off topic, but Monterrey is about 200 miles south of Laredo. I can easily make the drive in 3 hours.

User currently offlineRIOJANEIRO From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2070 times:

Hm... that's very surprising. I've checked loads on this flight over the past 3-4 months, and they are very good with bookings in the 40-55 range. It has a large authorization number, which may suggest a large number of no-shows on the flight. In addition, yields on this flight may not be good enough either. Regardless, I'm very surprised by this statement.
I'm a firm believer that HP has a large potential in Mexico/L.A. biz markets, however, over the past, GDL has gone from 2-3x daily on CR7's (when YV still had them under HPX) to 1x daily CR2, and MEX went from 2x daily 733's to one daily 733.


User currently offlineAv8rPHX From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 713 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2027 times:

Loads on our MTY flights as of late have been about 75-85% full. We are currently using CR9s on the PHX-MTY route. It would be nice if they'd increase capacity on our PHX-GYM route,since apparently it is a huge cruise port of departure,since our GYM flights are all going out oversold

[Edited 2004-06-16 23:49:33]

User currently offlineCx340 From Mexico, joined Sep 2000, 609 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2018 times:

Sad news, I hope AW keeps the flight.

However, the PHX-MTY route does seem a little odd to me. Are there important business ties between Arizona and MTY, or the State of Nuevo León, for the matter? I would be inclined to think that the business ties of Arizona lie more within the northwestern border states of Sonora and Baja California. If this is right, why would AW start a MTY flight even with a CRJ? My guess is they probably thought they could offer a hub for connections to the US west coast, but the question is, are regios travelling there on business? The only two places I can think of where a good amount of regios fly to in the US west coast are Las Vegas and LAX, and they are both well served from MTY and are more leisure destinations.

Anyway, I have a solution for AW: change the destination of your flight to your other hub. . .Las Vegas!! Believe me, you will get them planes packed!!




User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1929 times:

This is complicated, try to stick with me.
3 types of traffic that I know of:
Business
Leisure
FFR (Family/Friends)

Monterrey is not a leisure market that is correct.
Monterrey then has the Business and FFR markets.
Business traffic being down is a head scratcher, since from what I know, Monterrey is one of Mexico's most modern and economically diverse cities. (World's largest bakery is there....Bimbo, I think thats the name, besides I'm an airplane guy, not a bread guy!)

So if the business sector is down, that leaves FFR traffic.
Being a Mexican by marriage Smile, I have come to learn a few things. Here in CA, where most of that 'expected' traffic would come from, has more FFRs from the Central parts of Mexico i.e. Jalisco, Michoacan, Sinaloa, Federal, Leon/Guanajato. Natural migration from Monterrey has occurred mostly into the Central US, in a line stretching from SAT to DFW to CHI, making PHX an out of the way connection.
Secondly. From experience, my relatives, and Mexicans for the most part, are afraid of connections. There is real fear in my relatives of encountering problems connecting....no matter how low the fare is.
Thirdly. HP is trying to capture the O&D out of the PHX, but CX340 is correct, most O&D is based on NW Mexico.
Right now, the harvest is picking up steam, meaning the folks that are here to work, are already here.
I have one brother in-law, from Monterey....He flys a one-stop into SAT, then takes another carrier into MTY. I am not sure of what airline this is. But the point is, A roundtrip flight on WN to Texas, and then another r/t ticket SAT-MTY is still cheaper than the published fare SFO-MTY, always more than $400. Most of the times near $500. My extended family is not unlike most Mexican families in that $500 bucks is a lot of money! Hell, I bet my mother in law could buy a years worth of groceries on that money!
As for GDL.....Tough market, strictly FFR. A lot depends on the fortunes of the seasonal workers who spend 8 months out of the year, north of the border doing jobs Americans don't want to do. Housing in California is taking it's toll on these poor people, so that in turn means fewer trips, or trips by car instead. I recently saw off a family of 10, in a Chrysler Minivan, for the day and a half trip (without stopping) to Morelia, in Michoacan state.

Sorry for this being so wordy......I warned you it would be LONG!



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User currently offlineJjbiv From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1226 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1876 times:

What is a "regio"?

joe


User currently offlineAdriaticus From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1117 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1757 times:

Jjbiv: "Regio" is the way people living in Monterrey are called casually.

Stirling: your comments are correct for the most part. Just to add to them, it is necessary to consider two-way traffic to better understand how this goes. therefore we must consider PHX is neither a leisure nor a business destination for MTY travelers either. MTY's business/industrial activities are directed (in the US) towards the East coast, the Midwest, and the Southern West coast, in that order. Leisure goes everywhere else, but not to PHX.

I believe America West (HP) tried to bridge MTY with SAN, LAX, SFO, OAK and SJC, for example. This sounds like a good idea, but there is fierce competition by AM, MX, AA, DL, CO for the same pairing areas. What's more, AM, JR and 6A offer either direct or nonstop flights between MTY and LAX.

I believe any "regio" traveling in business to, let's say, Anaheim, would rather fly 6A non-stop to LAX, and then drive south. If it was SFO instead, better to take a connecting flight through LAX, SAT or DFW...

Now, I commented this topic with two "regio" friends I spoke to yesterday. Both are well-traveled people. One of them flies to LAX at least once every two months. Neither of them knew HP was serving MTY... Perhaps it is not amatter of demographics, but of Marketing instead...

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User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1706 times:

Adriaticus-

You are exactly right, it's a question of marketing.
And I know this from experience.
HP does not market it's Mesa operated flights. The position of HP is that the marketing for these flights is left up to the regional operating the segment, which in this case is Mesa.
Now the problem is, these flights have razor-thin margins, leaving no room in the budget for any type of marketing support. Sort of a Catch-22. But one played out over and over in regional markets acrosss the globe, as HP's agreement is not different from any other airline.

Backwards if you ask me. Having an HP rep in California, charged with marketing the HP Mexico routes would seem like a good idea, given the cultural links between the SW US and Mexico. The result would be increased loads from ALL markets into PHX, feeding into Mesa, impacting the bottom line, but HP does not see it that way. HP markets only mainline to mainline city-pairs unfortunately. And the sales rep for California, is in Phoenix.
AM and MX have a dedicated sales team in place for California(I believe in LA) that is able to respond to and influence market trends with a hands-on approach. They are much more in control of their destiny.

The only time I have seen a locally marketed regional service,(and I could be wrong) is when it is subsidised by local funds, and usually coinciding with a route launch, like what NW is doing right now on the LAN-IAD route. It's being marketed from what I understand in Western Michigan using local funding as part of the incentive package.



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User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5772 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1688 times:

Stirling, you are correct that most regional routes are not advertised. Occasionally I've seen the rare ad here in Fresno for one of the regional services. But the only ongoing advertising in this market for a regional is by QX. Along with Allegiant they are the only airlines ads we see in Fresno. Just one more reason FAT has such a large driveaway.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineCx340 From Mexico, joined Sep 2000, 609 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1619 times:

Now, I commented this topic with two "regio" friends I spoke to yesterday. Both are well-traveled people. One of them flies to LAX at least once every two months. Neither of them knew HP was serving MTY... Perhaps it is not a matter of demographics, but of Marketing instead...

Although I'm only regio by adoption of my "new" family, I do travel often to and from MTY and I'm normally aware of the cities served, but until a couple of weeks ago I didn't know AW had the PHX flight going. In fact, the only reason I found out about this flight is because AW's check-in counter at MTY airport is shared with Aerolineas Azteca, the carrier I flew on this occasion(excellent fares and service, BTW). No regio I know, and I know many who are well seasoned travelers, even knew that AW served MTY.






User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1602 times:

I think HP hasn't been strong enough with foreign "propaganda", so-to-speak. The foreign airline that advertises the most on Mexican T.V. is CO, followed by AA and recently DL. I have never seen any ads from HP in the T.V. nor the newspaper, EVER. Besides, I don't know about its counters on other airports, but the HP counter in HMO is a tiny, one-person booth waaaay back in a corner of the terminal, and it has a rather smallish HP logo. Plus, as mentioned in reply 10 by Mr. Adriaticus, many people don't even know that HP flies to here and there in Mexico, or that HP even exists.

Just my $0.02 pesos  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5197 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 1539 times:

Not much to add to the conversation but as Flyinfroggie in Reply 4 says, MTY its very close to the US border. If you drive faster you can even be there in 2 hours.

Also MTY is well connected with cities like IAH, DFW, etc where all business/leisure/FFR goes if they want to fly any other city in the US or there's also direct links well served between MTY to LAX or LAS with 6A.

I agree with Cx340. HP should instead fly from LAS to MTY. And they need to make more ads in newspaper and TV. A lot of people doesn't know about HP existence in Mexico.

Ricardo APM




Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 1458 times:

If the HP station manager happens to be reading this........Do yourself a favor and find the top 3 destinations out of your airport......put them on a big banner.......hang it on the back wall of your check-in counter......even if it's only when you are servicing a flight.........You'll raise your pax count by 7% +/- 3%.........Airline 101. (Theory stolen from another business model, don't see why it couldn't apply here!!! Smile)


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User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 1455 times:

Uhhhh guys....HP doesnt fly to MTY and never has. Mesa has that service but flying under HP colors. I think the topic should have been "Mesa Airlines Dropping MTY Route".


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 1454 times:

We know.

Our point is that HP doesn't support the marketing of Regional destinations. And that is why the flight to MTY is failing, since the 'one-zise fits all' brand of 21st century marketing isn't effective everywhere------like MTY. Apologies for bad semantical use of carriers.



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User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 1451 times:

Okay, sorry about that...I think I originally misunderstood the point. Thanks for clearing that up, Stirling.

Our point is that HP doesn't support the marketing of Regional destinations.

Curious....why do they not support these markets?



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
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