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Boeing-GE Merger....possible?  
User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2985 times:

For industry watchers...do you think there is any possibility of Boeing and GE merging within the next ten years? Or GE bidding for Boeing outright?

There are already signs there. GE has become a major risk sharer on projects like the 773ER/772LR and a partner in BBJ. Boeing CEO Harry Stonecipher is also an ex-GE executive, and could be well placed to drive the merger forward.

The combined company could offer economies of scale, with Boeing's finance arm fitting with GECAS for example. Other GE businesses could take on work that Boeing currently subcontracts elsewhere. Management structures could be simplified and merged.

Or would a merged GE Boeing Corp be too much of a dominant player in aviation for the US Government and other bodies such as the EU to accept?

As I said, it's just a point to debate for now. Although there have been suggestions in the financial press that this could well happen.

Opinions?

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoingGoingGone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2970 times:

And they called the child:

Boeing-Douglas-GE-NBC-Universal.

Probably not.


User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2969 times:

This was raised as a possibility about 5 or 6 years ago. That time there was talk that GE would acquire Boeing.

I don't think it will happen for a variety of reasons. To cite one, the EU will never accept it. The EU apparently thought a combination of GE and Honeywell was anticompetitive. No way they will tolerate General Electric and Boeing.


User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2957 times:

It would be interesting to watch if GE went into battle to get it through with an army of competition lawyers.

Boeing is a good bit larger than Honeywell, and there are all sorts of arguments that could be made if they were seriously out to make a bid.

No doubt there would be a shopping list of concessions that would be required before it happened, such as selling off or demerging parts of GE's portfolio.


User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1597 posts, RR: 18
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2915 times:

Is the pope Jewish?

Never... The EC/US would never ever allow this... 2 of the greatest American powerhouse companies joining forces? Ha ha... EC Wouldn't allow GE to purchase the tinny Honeywell... PW Would go bazerk if this happened. Also, this would ruin the Franco-German ambition to create corporate powerhouses....

a possible merger would be Boeing and BAE...That would be cool... I could even see Boeing target a small planemaker....



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2907 times:

EC Wouldn't allow GE to purchase the tinny Honeywell...

Honeywell, tiny?

What?

N


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 984 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2901 times:

I think the general consensus that the EU would hit the roof is an understatement. On the otherhand, giving half the execs at EADS a massive stroke could work in Boeing's favor even if the deal didn't go through  Big grin

GE has become a major risk sharer on projects like the 773ER/772LR and a partner in BBJ

Boeing selected GE as a partner on the 777LR program mainly because they had the most capable engine. Had the Trent 800 been in the position of the GE90, we would probably see Rolls Royce as a risk sharing partner on the 777LR.


User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2889 times:

a possible merger would be Boeing and BAE...That would be cool... I could even see Boeing target a small planemaker....


Not a chance because of the way BAe is positioned at the moment.

Boeing would end up with 20% of Airbus! Can you imagine Boeing's publicity coup if that happened...."No Airbus can fly without Boeing wings"!!!

Priceless!  Smile

There is also the shareholdings of BAe to consider. The Saudis and Kuwaitis are large BAe shareholders. Boeing would need to talk them into selling.

BAe also has other non-aviation businesses which wouldn't fit well with Boeing. The BAe Systems group would probably need to be broken up, and that would definitely not go down well with the UK Government as it could destabilise defence procurement.

What about SAAB? The Swedish manufacturer could be an interesting target with its spread of products (excluding cars, but then again why not....?)

[Edited 2004-06-18 03:25:14]

User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1597 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2881 times:

Market Caps

Honeywell 31.08B
GE 330.48B
Boeing 41.71B

OK, so using the word 'Tiny' is not the right word, but I was simply implying that if GE wasn't able to purchase a smaller aerospace and defense firm for 31B they are not going to get one for 41...



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlineSammyk From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2866 times:
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Isn't Boeing selling it's finance arm (or has already done so)?

User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2858 times:

Gigneil

Honeywell, tiny?

What?


Compared to General Electric, they are. Depending upon how their stock is doing (or if you go by revenue), they are sometimes the largest company in the world, alternating with Microsoft, Walmart, and Exxon.

Sammyk:

No, just the non-aviation financial portion.

Anyhow, I don't think ownership of Boeing falls into GE's corporate strategy--unless Boeing fell upon hard times, then I could see GE Capital doing a buyout/splitup operation. I don't think the FTC/EU would object to an arbitrage deal.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineGreaser From Bahamas, joined Jan 2004, 1101 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2785 times:

If it happened, i would like to see a Ge-90 on a 757!!! YeehAA!!!
Anyway, can Boeing buy Airbus??? Smokin cool



Now you're really flying
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2773 times:

Boeing selected GE as a partner on the 777LR program mainly because they had the most capable engine.

Boeing selected GE not only because of the GE90. They selected it because GE was willing to pony a LARGE amount of money, and because GECAS can help them place aircraft.

The Trent was arguably in a position to compete.

N


User currently offlineVorticity From United States of America, joined May 2004, 337 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2710 times:

Boeing sold the non-aviation related part of their financial group to GE. They actually had hoped to model that part of Boeing after GE, however lately they've decided to re-focus their efforts.

A lot of people would probably throw a fit if GE made a move for Boeing. That's just my hunch. People were throwing fits at the idea of anyone grabbing Northrup Grumman after all.



Thermodynamics and english units don't mix...
User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2675 times:

Just re-affirming what Vorticity has said. Boeing's Finance of Commerical Aircraft remains; we're keeping our core competancies. What we sold was our financing of non-aviation projects. I think I remember something about us financing construction equipment or something like that?

User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2650 times:

SAAB aircraft department isn´t for sale, to heavly linked to the JAS Gripen,
imagine if the buyer would cancel it in favor of F22?
I don´t think GE is so interested in Boeing,


User currently offlineUAlonghaul From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2636 times:

Do you have any idea how many branches of GE exist? Of all of these, Aircraft engines is not the largest. GE Owns everything from aircraft engine manufactures to consumer electronics to capital managements firms to media companies.

Boeing is also a large company, with a large portion of its revenues coming form defense and satellite products.

I encourage you to look at the 10ks for each company, the civil aircraft arm of Boeing and the aircraft engines of GE are two very smaller branches in two very large and complex companies.

Just think, if they merged (I still cannot belief that people actually thought this could or would happen) GE could make the cordless blenders for the apaches!!!

This thread should be deleted on the grounds of plain stupidity.



User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8455 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2582 times:
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Maybe the source of this thread is the announcement by GE that they have acquired $2bn in assets from Boeing Capital.

http://www.ge.com/files/usa/company/investor/downloads/boeing_capital_acq_052404.pdf



After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2545 times:

The EU wouldnt even allow it if it were to happen, but I would love to see them freak out like they did when Boeing was attempting to buy McDD. It was really funny how it played out too.


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2472 times:

Boeing has a rather strong 'poison pill' plan for hostile takeovers...
They would be tought to take over, both financially, and in this regulatory environment...
A lot of lawyers, making a lot of money! Bring it on!  Smile


User currently offlineNDSchu777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 419 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2446 times:

I think this kind of merger between aircraft and engine manufacturers is strictly prohibited by US law. What about the Air Mail Act of 1934? After the air mail scandals of the early 30's this act was passed to curb anti-competitive activities in commercial aviation. One provision of the act was to bar a single company from operating an airline and manufacturing engines and aircraft. This act is what split up United Aircraft into United Airlines, Pratt & Whitney, and Boeing. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm no legal expert, but I believe this law would still be in effect and therefore at GE-Boeing merger would be outright illegal.

~Nick


User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7533 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2356 times:

If the referenced-merger did happen and restricted all future Boeing aircraft to use only GE engines, then NW would probably never purchase any future Boeing aircraft. The reason dates back to a clause in a former-NW's CEO (I forget who it was at the time) Will that, in a nutshell, states that NW will not use GE engines on any of their aircraft. This animosity dates back to the late 50s and had something to do with a raw deal NW received from GE regarding engine parts on the Boeing Stratocruiser.

I received this information from my father, who was a young engineer with GE at the time. Clarifications on this from any old-timers and/or vintage aviation buffs are more than welcomed.

That's probably the main reason why NW 753s are the only ones with Pratt-Whitneys on them.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineVorticity From United States of America, joined May 2004, 337 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2343 times:

That's probably the main reason why NW 753s are the only ones with Pratt-Whitneys on them.

Well their other choice on the 753 was RR, not GE. I think NW is the only airline flying the 753 with PWs, but it's not GE grudge.



Thermodynamics and english units don't mix...
User currently offlineBDLGUY From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 194 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days ago) and read 2289 times:

Boeing-GE Merger?

That would be illegal in the U.S. because they are a monopoly.

I recalled back in the 1930's or 1940's, The Boeing, United Airlines and Pratt & Whitney (which it was called an United Aircraft) were combined in one company but the U.S. supreme Court ordered the company had to break up all three separate companies because of a monopoly.

Correct me, if I'm wrong.  Laugh out loud
John/BDL



John A. Perrotta (KBDL/BDL) - Canon 300D/400D & EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days ago) and read 2280 times:

NW will not use GE engines on any of their aircraft.

The could give a shit about that CEO's will. They have used GE engines on their DC-10, and even more recently on their A320 family aircraft.

N


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 25, posted (10 years 4 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2255 times:

That would be a vertical monopoly, which isn't always illegal. Other industries do it all the time. It depends upon the specific industry. The United Aircraft merger that from 1929 that you are referring to would be different from a horizontal monopoly, which is what the Standard Oil breakup was.

Then you have the AT&T breakup, which was actually both.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
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