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UA: More Likely To Close LAX Or IAD?  
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 8123 times:

People have mentioned that United may have to shrink part of their operation in order to survive, and I ask where they should cut. Needless to say, ORD (for obvious reasons) and DEN (their second-largest hub) aren't going anywhere...SFO, a key to their Asian operation, likely isn't going anywhere either. On the other hand, LAX is somewhat redundant (although it is UA's only warm-weather hub, UA has a larger international operation at SFO, and the LAX market is very competitive) and IAD is in a somewhat isolated situation, as there isn't the feed into IAD that there is into ORD, and a lot of the European flights overfly IAD in favor of departing from ORD, making it redundant. Granted, Dulles is United's only East-coast hub, but with only a few dozen mainline flights from IAD to places east of the Mississippi, and the challenge that will be coming up known as Independence Air, they might be better off simply writing the East Coast off, and using their Star Alliance partner, namely US Airways, for the East Coast market...I'd be interested to see responses, which hub is United more likely to shut down, LAX or IAD?


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47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 7962 times:

I wouldn't call LAX a hub for UA. That said, I don't think they can maintian IAD, especially after losing the feed from Independence Air. I think it would be wise to move their international ops to ORD and let US take over some of the East Coast market.

UA needs to start thinking about restructuring their operations and IAD seems the perfect hub to start with.


User currently offlineWdleiser From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 961 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 7957 times:

I think UAL will wait and see what happends first with US. If US goes under... IAD airtravel may increase.

User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 7944 times:

I would bet LAX. Then, depending on what happens with I-air (seems to be up in the air, no pun intended, as to whether or not they will make it themselves) and then revisit the IAD hub ONLY if they ABSOLUTELY have to.

Personally, I'd drop the south american flights and focus on Europe, Asia, and the Caribbean. But then again, I'm just an armchair CEO.


User currently offlineN670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1603 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 7933 times:

I wouldn't call LAX a hub for UA.

It's a hub. Straight from Investor Relations:

"UAL Corporation is the holding company for United Airlines, the second largest air carrier in the world. With hubs in Chicago, Denver, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Washington, D.C., and key international gateways in Tokyo, London, Frankfurt, Miami and Toronto, United flies to 109 destinations in 23 countries. United's 65,000-plus employees worldwide bring people together safely, conveniently and efficiently more than 1,800 times a day. United's customers also enjoy access to more than 700 destinations around the world through Star Alliance, the leading global airline network"


User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3939 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 7893 times:
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I would love to have us (CO) take over some pacific routes out of LAX, or even move some flights into LAX, the only bd thing is that F9 & HP seem to be jumping in over there.


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offline777ualsfo From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 7812 times:

I agree - drop IAD, move the european flights to ORD and abandon IAD completely. If that isn't enough, would close DEN and stick with profitable international, transcon, and some TED for shorter leisure trips.

User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 7704 times:

I agree - drop IAD, move the european flights to ORD and abandon IAD completely. If that isn't enough, would close DEN and stick with profitable international, transcon, and some TED for shorter leisure trips.

Drop DEN? Yeah right! That will never happen, and here's why:

DEN is UA's second largest hub, and it's making UA money (ok, as UA goes, they aren't making any money, but you get the point). UA was the only airline to survive the "Hub Wars" of the mid '80s, forcing out the old Frontier and Continental, and for a very long time they were the only hub out at DIA until the new Frontier began their rapid expansion.

Denver is also UA's leisure hub, and TED's home base. Why would they close a hub that is the home of their leisure airline? That makes absolutely no sense. You say you want TED for shorter leisure hops, well, if they closed DEN, THERE WOULD BE NO TED!!!


User currently offlineIad777 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 121 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 7641 times:

why is everyone suggesting abandoning IAD completely? The Bulk of United's European operations are out of IAD, including newly inagurated service to ZRH. They also have flights to Buenos Aires and Rio and Sao Paolo as well as new carribean flights, not to mention the plehtora of transcon services. Makes no sense to cut and run from IAD.

US can't really take over their east coast market because US is more of an intra-east coast carrier. UA is not an east coast regional airline from DC, they are a int'l, and transcon carrier from DC (including cities outside of the north-east like den, chicago etc)

I hope UA stays in DC, they've been part of Dulles for years and it would be a shame to cut and run.



History shall be kind to me; for I intend to write it -WSC
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 7548 times:

I wouldnt necessarly close any hubs, it wouldnt be a wise idea right now.If I were to chose which hubs to scale back service, it would more likely be IAD. Just cut the service down, sit back and see what happens with US. As far as LAX....thats a good hub to keep for transpac routes via HNL.


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineCjuniel From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 146 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 7521 times:

Are you people sniffing glue? Since when did ANY of UA's European flights overfly Dulles? United serves ALL of their European destinations from Dulles. There are a few flights from Chicago to London, Paris and Frankfurt, but Dulles is United's PREMIER transatlantic gateway. Having a transatlantic gateway on the east coast allows optimum feed due to the fact that your customers don't really have to backtrack, just to fly east. There is no way in hell United is going to shutter the IAD hub. Add to that it is now the base of operations for their South American flying. United is the only big three airline with a hub in the National Capital area, and unless they liquidate (which I hope they wont), they wont be leaving DC anytime soon. As far as Denver, Denver, while it doesn't have the international flying of the rest of the United hubs is a moneymaker. As are Chicago and San Francisco. If they downgrade a hub, it will be LAX, and what they will do is downgrade it from a hub to a focus city. With the exception of Tokyo and London, there isn't the international flying from LAX that there was in the late 90's when United flew to Hong Kong, Osaka, and I believe Taipei and Seoul also (I could be wrong about the last two) from LAX. They haven't significantly increased their LAX operation since it gained the designator as "hub", so that's where I would expect them to go.

User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 7497 times:

IMHO - I could see UA make both LAX and to a lesser degree IAD, more of a focus city than a true hub and spoke operation. IAD I could see become a smaller hub, especially if Indy does well as that is going to hurt them. Although like others have or will point out Indy by no means will offer the destinations that UA does or will. Whatever happens it will be a interesting ride.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 7491 times:

Forgot to add in my post #9: Cut back service DOMESTICALLY, not internationally. Closing hubs wouldnt be wise either.

Like I said, cut back service domestically.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3509 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 7482 times:

Move more operations to ORD??? Are you guys serious? ORD is a nightmare right now already. They invested in new UEX facilities at IAD so I think and hope they'll keep it. All ACA express flights were will be replaced by other carriers so I Air is not a factor.

User currently offline4jaded From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 7456 times:

I have a feeling that UA based upon its situation with US would likely shutter IAD before LAX. The east coast is already so overserved by everyone that UA pulling the plug would be a minor bump in the road. On the other hand LAX is very well developed has a larger base of residents and limited opprotunities for growth amoung other airlines due to the facilities availible. UA has a large facilitiy there and could add additional flights easily. Lax just makes more sense.

User currently offlineLindy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 7453 times:

4jaded you haven't been to IAD didn't you?

From your post it sounds like UAL at IAD is like US at LAX.

Rafal


User currently offline4jaded From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 7411 times:

I have been to IAD and I am aware that currently UA is the top dog. My point is that overall IAD service could be easily picked up by others where as at LAX the process is not that simple.

User currently offlineMoose1226 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 250 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 7363 times:

To all those who say that Indy Air will kill off UA at IAD:

Go here: http://www.flyi.com/too-destinations.htm

How many of these destinations are served by UA (mainline)? Not many.

I-Air may force UA to lower fares on the flights operated by the regional partners, but Independence is not attacking UA's international flights, and is competing with UA mainline domestic service very little (at least until they get the 319's).

I think that IA and UA can coexist peacefully, at least for now.


User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3939 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 7273 times:
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UAL did not force CO out of DEN, there were other leading factors that was behind the reasoning. One was the city of Denver.


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineUA744KSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 7134 times:

Neither of the two should or will be dropped

User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 6797 times:

Some of you people are SO funny. What an absolute riot this is!


Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineRHSNYC From United States of America, joined May 2004, 95 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 6690 times:

UA more Likely To Close LAX or IAD? All this conjecture and high speculation is preposterous!!! UAL only just received news of no loan guarantee and you guys are already making up stories of hubs closing - Boy, we do have too much time on our hands!!

User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 6567 times:

If you get a paper-cut on your finger, do you cut off your arm?
Think about it....then let this thread die a quick and silent death....

NEXT!!

And what's up will all those A.Net sucks threads????? What a waste of bandwith!!!



Delete this User
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 6552 times:

That said, I don't think they can maintian IAD, especially after losing the feed from Independence Air.

They're replacing it 1:1.

N


User currently offline965004 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 8 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 6130 times:

UAL I believe, stopped flying from MIA to South America in favor of Star Alliance partner, Varig. They opted to sly south via IAD, if they leave IAD, does that mean they will only fly to South America from ORD, or will they sell that network in similar fashion that Pan Am sold its Asian routes to UAL in the mid 1980's?

25 Cubsrule : 965004- Everything I have read indicated that UA closed the crew base in MIA and moved the South America flights to IAD because it was stupid to have
26 Baw2198 : IAD would be the better choice since not many flights originate out of there that make a lot of money for united other than being a quick link back to
27 L.1011 : If I were United, I'd drop SFO and move it all down to LAX. More population and consistantly better flying weather.
28 Japanfan3 : Close IAD?!? Not in our lifetimes! IAD is a BIG European gateway, if anything UA should close LAX and code share with other star carriers.
29 Flashmeister : If UA had to choose one today, it'd be tough. IAD would be an easy one to pull back from, if UA could: - Move 'open-skies' routes from IAD to PHL, and
30 Post contains images Moose1226 : If united stays at IAD its only going to hurt them in the long run with independence air starting, jetblue, and southwest. WN doesn't fly out of IAD.
31 KL911 : I don't think they'll close IAD. Washington attracts big numbers of high yield business/first class politicians of all European countries. Leisure mig
32 Flashmeister : Washington attracts big numbers of high yield business/first class politicians of all European countries. If UA really wants this market, then they ha
33 Airways6max : It sounds like IAD should be closed, based on the above article. However, maybe because United didn't develop IAD as much as they should is part of th
34 UAMAYBACH1239 : IAD would go first. A more likely scenario, would be UA cutting streamline flts into and out of dulles. IAD being fed thru the hubs only.(SFO,LAX,DEN,
35 Moose1226 : Why should the UA IAD hub be closed? And why do you guys talk like it is inevitable? You have no evidence to suggest that either of the hubs will be c
36 Cospn : If I were United, I'd drop SFO and move it all down to LAX. More population and consistantly better flying weather. Good one L1011 SFO is delay prone
37 UA744KSFO : I hear a lot of you saying that UA should cut SFO in favour of LAX. Well, other than the fact that LAX is a craphole, SFO is very important to UA's op
38 InnocuousFox : SFO is far closer to trans-pacific destinations as well. Even to Hawaii. Enough of this crap, though... none of them are going to be flat out "cut".
39 Gigneil : If united had to keep an east coast airport, I'd say they move the IAD operation to PIT. What? Washington is the 4th largest metro area in the US, and
40 Airzim : If we see UA trim their fleet varieties rather than hubs per se, I think you are likely to see the 744's go, ergo flights to OZ, the only reason I can
41 Gigneil : Trans-pac flights are actually quite low yield sectors, at least that is the case with most Asian based carriers. For Asian carriers, yes. UA and NW o
42 Captover : If UA ever dropped IAD, IAD would be jumped on in an instant by another airline for a trans Atlantic hub. Maybe NW or AA?
43 SHUPirate1 : Captover-Why couldn't United actually try and make it seem like they have an interest in IAD though? Once Independence has their full-scale operation
44 Captover : i didn't say they couldn't. I don't want to see UA leave IAD.
45 Legacyins : UA is not or will not close its' SFO base in favor of LA. UA just signed a 15 year lease extension on its' maintenance base and terminal facilities. I
46 747firstclass : First of all it sounds like a number of people are missing a good point. It is always quite possible that I Air will not succeed at all. In yesterdays
47 Atcboy73 : I always find myself wondering if UA makes money at IAD year round. My guess is IAD-SFO, LAX, ORD and DEN are good routes year round but do they make
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