A380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1006 posts, RR: 1 Posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8367 times:
Question to the GA pilots around here. I am planning a trip in a Cessna 172 in the US. Is it possible to have two adults and three children (around 10 years old) if we are well below the MTOW? What are the risks?
Luisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8341 times:
I still dont have my PPL but i do have a student licence,so dont bash me if i am wrong. you could be below MTOW, but the back seat only has tow seat belts, and i think that the airplane is only certified for four passanger. Also, if the weight of the children exceeds the weight of you and the pilot, and you are carriying luggage, your CG could be aft of the approved range. But if it is legal i dont think MTOW would be a huge problem as long as you dont take a lot of fuel
Cessna172RG From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 744 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8324 times:
The 172, in the standard non-retractable version, can fly two adults and one passenger in the back without having to alter your fuel capacity. However, pilots have told me, and from what I have read a few years back from "Flying" magazine, is that you will be pretty lucky to get two adults up front and only one passenger in the rear. And that is to meet your W/B calculations...
If you load up the "backseat" too much, you will alter your C of G and your plane will be unbalanced.
When I take my wife and my sister flying, my wife sits in the back, as she weighs less than my sister. My wife is Japanese, so she is darned skinny, but my sister, albeit 9 years age difference, is almost the same weight as me, about 70 kilos.
CitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2229 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8206 times:
I am not sure where you can find one. The 172s built before 1985 had the third seat as an option. According to my sources, it was a fairly popular option.
When the 172s restarted production in the mid 1990s, this third seat was not an option, because of the difficulty in meeting the new dynamic seat requirements (FAR 23.562).
Therefore, to find a 172 with a child's seat, it will have to be built in 1985 or earlier. Personally I have not seen many 172s with these seats.
JBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4459 posts, RR: 22 Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8186 times:
My advice would be to look for a Cessna 182 to rent as opposed to a 172. I've seen many more of these with the third-row child seat, plus that airplane has a lot of available power. As it is a high-performance aircraft, though, you'd have to be properly certified. Not sure how the JAA/FAA conversion works there.
N766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 7980 posts, RR: 27 Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8102 times:
Is the kid small and well behaved? Throw him in the cargo compartment . But really, if it doesnt affect weight and balance much, only the lack of the seatbelt restricts you. And, after all, only the pilot is required by law to wear a belt in GA aircraft. I wouldn't advise it though.
CitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2229 posts, RR: 3 Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8085 times:
Only the pilot is required to wear a seat belt??
FAR 91.107 states that each person on board a U.S. registered civil aircraft must occupy an approved seat or berth with a safety belt and, if installed, shoulder harness properly secured about him or her during movement on the surface, takeoff, and landing.
Jadedmonkeys From United States of America, joined May 2004, 67 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8062 times:
I'm pretty sure the FARs state that Pilots are supposed to wear safety belts at all times they are in their stations and shoulder harnesses as well during takeoffs, landings, and taxiing. The passengers are only required to wear both the safety belts and shoulder harnesses during taxiing, takeoffs and landing but not during cruise. As for your 3 children in the back, you have three things to worry about, the 172 is not certified for 5 people, the seatbelt law regarding passengers and weight balance.
Jadedmonkeys From United States of America, joined May 2004, 67 posts, RR: 3 Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8046 times:
Alright I found a couple of loop holes. In FAR 91.107, If your child is under 2 years old, an adult who is occupying an approved seat can hold the child. Also It states that the person can sit on the floor if they're going to engage in some kind of sport parachuting, so if your child is under 2 years of age or would like to jump out the 172 at 14,000 MSL then you're good to go!
Canoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2657 posts, RR: 12 Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7972 times:
I worked at a regional airport for years in college. A guy there owned a 150 with a bench seat in the back. He would routinely take his wife and kid (not an infant) up in it with him. It didn't look safe at all to me.
Seems like a similar situation here, you might be able to do it, but is it safe.
Av8trxx From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 657 posts, RR: 7 Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7925 times:
5 people in a 172?!?!?
172 or 182, they can only take 4 pax (excluding the lap child under 2 thing).
Five people in a 172 is NOT legal nor is it safe! That could be considered a violation of § 91.13 "Careless or reckless operation (a) Aircraft operations for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another."
It would certainly be a violation of "§ 91.107 Use of safety belts, shoulder harnesses, and child restraint systems. Each person on board a U.S.-registered civil aircraft must occupy an approved seat or berth with a safety belt and, if installed, shoulder harness, properly secured about him or her during movement on the surface, takeoff, and landing."
Remeber, your license is on the as PIC so don't try any stupid pilot tricks. With 4 people 172s are very near being over MTOW anyway. Two adults, 3 kids and full fuel with any bags would certainly push that envelope. Not to mention with 3 in back you are going to have a CG problem! Legality aside, it wouldn't be smart even if it were legal. I wouldn't worry about that 'child jumpseat' issue. If the plane had one installed, you'd have known about it already. Seems you don't have one, so it's not an option.
Break out your FARs or go here and check them out online-