TriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4690 posts, RR: 45 Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3823 times:
This will become interesting. You can expect LTU and Lufthansa (through their affiliate Condor) to react on ATA's plans once they should become reality.
From my personal point of view, only serving big gateway cities with a high potential for both business and leisure passengers would make sense. So I expect either EWR or JFK to be among the candidates on the US side.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 58 Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3695 times:
ATA's entry into the low-cost transatlantic market will certainly be interesting, and will cause other carriers to react. Cologne is mentioned as the first city, and ATA plans to serve 2 or 3 additional cities in europe according to the article. My guess is that most flights to Europe will be on ATA 757-200s, which have adequate range to fly from the NE United States to northern Europe. The 752s have a good amount of seats that will not be difficult to fill up and very low operating costs.....both important for a low cost operation. Unless ATA can keep the costs down and all of the seats filled up, the low transatlantic fares that they plan to offer will result in losses for the airline.
Gateways are likely to be cities like EWR, BOS or Baltimore, I would image we will see routings like Midway-Newark-Cologne or Indidanpolis-Baltimore-Cologne, to tie the international services into ATA's domestic route system. A guess, but I think that will be the logic.
The question is how other carriers will react.....Lufthansa will certainly do something, they are already in the process of re-lauching the Condor brand and plan to make that division into a low-cost carrier instead of exclusively a charter airline.
Big777jet From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3524 times:
I remembered many years ago. Lufthansa used be nonstop scheduled flight JFK-CGN on an A300 or A310. I'm not sure about that. I remembered they used to have service for a short term. They dropped service due lack of service. Am I right?
ATA767 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 419 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3359 times:
It really can not be done from MDW because of the fuel requirement and runway capacity. Germans want to go to NY or FL. That leave EWR,BOS, PIE or MCO as possible launch cities however the FL cities really could not support a non-stop in both directions. I would say the should launch it from EWR and have a few feeder flight from EWR to PIE, MCO, MDW, CLT, LAS and IND. Thats my 2 cents.
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 23548 posts, RR: 50 Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3297 times:
From what I understand ATA initially is looking at one continental airport and one UK airport to serve in the begining.
For the US gateway last I heard the choices were, BWI, a NYC airport, and BOS.
While the both NYC and BOS would face competition from both US carriers and host of foreign carriers, ATA would pretty much have BWI to itself as there is very little scheduled Trans Atlantic service from the facility. In addition ATA has a good size set up at BWI as it operated AMC military charters at the airport on near daily basis.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
A flight from CGN to BWI would be great!
As they are talking about more European destinations, how about STN as a possibility, that would be a good base for low-cost operations.
I do believe that ATA did have scheduled transatlantic traffic before though. I think in the mid 1990s they flew to Ireland and on to Riga in Latvia with 757s and TriStars. I don't remember what the gateway city in the US was though.
I think it was JFK. Anybody remember that?
Godbless From Sweden, joined Apr 2000, 2752 posts, RR: 17 Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3030 times:
ATA has been mentioned before in various articles on German forums and also in German newspapers, so to be honest I´m not that surprised... But after all it´s good to see this message come from the other side of the pond.
No matter what Lufthansa/Condor or LTU will do, I guess that CGN has a winner here. It is said that LTU wants to start operations to NY [again] next year so this might have to do with the fact that CGN is becoming a real competion to DUS [from where LTU operates it´s longhauls].
Well if you ask me, CGN is by far more attractive to me than DUS. Just found proof of that yesterday when I flew to MAD from DUS.
Stirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 26 Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2761 times:
You remembered correctly.
This would not be ATAs first attempt at service to Europe.
During the summer of 1994, ATA flew JFK to Belfast, Northern Ireland, continuing on for Riga Latvia. Tickets could be purchased to Belfast, but traffic mostly went on to Riga.
Twice a week, WED and SAT, returned on THU and SUN
They used AA's gates at JFK and operated the route with the Tristar.
Service lasted only for that summer season.
If memory serves me correctly, more than half the seats were purchased by a tour company specializing in travel to Russia. It may even have been a Russian/Latvian company. Independence was quite fresh at the time.
PanAmerican From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 384 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2727 times:
Thanks for confirming that, Stirling. Honestly, with such a strange routing, no wonder that didn't work out.
I'm just hoping they'll do better this time with their second attempt at transatlantic service. I'll be excited to hear about the details of this new service, especially from where it will be operating. If they'll offer fares of $100+tax there is no question I'll give them a try
By the way, in my opinion ATA's old livery (as posted by me above) was a great classic, too bad they had to replace it with the modern crap.
FraT From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 1101 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2705 times:
It's gonna be tight to fly the 757 from NYC or BWI to CGN. CO used to fly from EWR to DUS with the 752 and they had some diversions because of the fuel capacity.
So if they will use the 757 my guess is BOS because German tourists love to visit New England and they could use some feeder flights to other popular destinations.
PanAmerican From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 384 posts, RR: 5 Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2684 times:
FraT, yeah, sure BOS would work, however nobody confirmed they'll actually use the 757. However, even if they plan on doing that, BOS-CGN is 3119nm, BWI-CGN is3439nm, on the ATA website it says though that their 757-200s have a range of 3200nm, their 757-300 have a range of 3500nm, so they might also use the 753 to fly from BWI to CGN.
FraT From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 1101 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2670 times:
that's why I used the word IF.
Besides that I'm still not convinced about this whole LCC transatlantic stuff. DE already mentioned CGN as well and there are a lot of fares in the market which come very close to Low Cost.
Let's wait and see.
PHX Flyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 484 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2570 times:
<< ... nobody confirmed they'll actually use the 757. >>
Actually, that's not true. ATA stated four months ago that they would use 757's.
The flights will be point-to-point, and will not depend on hub-feeding. Consequently, they will use large O&D markets as gateways, and they would have to take into account the somewhat limited range of the B757. Obviously, NYC comes to mind, but Boston is certainly a possibility, too.
Btw, Lufthansa served JFK-CGN with all sorts of equipment: 707, 747, DC-10, from the early 60s until 1980, I believe. Currently, they fly the route with a MD-11F.
WGW2707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1197 posts, RR: 37 Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2550 times:
It would be interesting if they did fly the L1011, but I sorely doubt it. However, I did get to fly one in 1993 SFO-OGG and HNL-SFO, so I can't complain. My first, but hopefully not my last trip in a Tristar, and my first but definitely not my last trip to Hawaii...
Wjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4796 posts, RR: 17 Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2515 times:
My impression was that they wanted to offer connections to low-cost European carriers. Cologne offers German Wings as the low-cost carrier. If they can go into Stansted, then they get Ryanair and EzJet.
The 752 won't, I believe, make Baltimore. Also, I think that the 757-300 has a *shorter*, not longer, range than the 752, particularly with a one-class service like ATA's. Of course, ATA is adding biz class, but still...