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Subsidy War Could Harm Boeing More Than Airbus  
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2444 times:

"It's ironic that Boeing CEO Harry Stonecipher wants to step up complaints about Airbus 'subsidies,' considering Boeing's 7E7 will have up to $6 billion of 'subsidies' from Japan, Italy and the United States (Washington State)," says Pritchard, who studies the globalization of the commercial aircraft industry.

"But there are two major differences between an Airbus A380 'subsidy' and Boeing 7E7 'subsidy,'" Pritchard points out.

The Airbus subsidy is in the form of repayable loans with interest for aircraft development, which is legal according to the World Trade Organization, Pritchard says. The Boeing subsidy, on the other hand, is for aircraft production, which is prohibited by the WTO and which never will be paid back, he says.

"Boeing has the 7E7 program to lose and very little to gain by entering into a subsidy war with Airbus," Pritchard speculates. "If Boeing loses, is it prepared to pay back the subsidies and increase self-financing for the areas covered by the subsidies? If not, what happens to its 7E7 program?

http://www.buffalo.edu/reporter/vol35/vol35n40/articles/Boeing.html


12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12115 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2428 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Why can't the CEO of Airbus and Boeing just grow up and just focus on selling planes instead of trying 2 give each other a bad name

User currently offlineRuscoe From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1562 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2413 times:

Fortunately these subsidy battles usually involve a lot more than aviation. At a Governmental level they usually both decide they have too much too loose to further the action.

You know, Europe won't get much sympathy from the rest of the world when it comes to subsidies.

Ruscoe


User currently offlineBlackbird1331 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1893 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2344 times:

Right, like Japan and Italy are idiots and they will get nothing in return. You could, in effect, call the sale of Boeing jets to China subsidized because of all the goods on our store shelves from China. Or, you could call it fair trade.


Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
User currently offlineElwood64151 From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2477 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2339 times:

Let the AvB war begin!

Moderators, please delete this thread.



Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
User currently offlineBlackbird1331 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1893 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2328 times:

Elwood, are you one of the "Blues Brothers"? Av.B makes this site worth visiting. They are rivals, you know.


Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2316 times:

remember Boeing doesn't get any subsidies from Japan.
Japanese suppliers TO Boeing get special status from the Japanese government because the Japanese have decided that the 7E7 is vital for their economy.

It's not like Airbus who get billions and billions in subsidies directly so they can deliver aircraft beneath production cost with the sole purpose of driving Boeing out of business.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8231 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2311 times:

A lot of the money B got from the state was in the form of cities & states competing with each other to get the plant. This is done every day in the US - cities making sweet offers so a company will move in and provide jobs. I would not be surprised if European cities did the same thing - motivating companies to build jobs in cities. Not a big deal, unless your city is in the competition.

One form of subsidy benefits that A does enjoy over B is medical insurance. Because of the US medical system out insurance rates are through the roof - mine is about $1,000 per month - and this does have a negative impact for B, and does financially benefit A in an indirect cost manner. In other words, A should keep quiet about subsidy benefits.


User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2294 times:
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"remember Boeing doesn't get any subsidies from Japan.
Japanese suppliers TO Boeing get special status from the Japanese government because the Japanese have decided that the 7E7 is vital for their economy."


And you're suggesting Boeing doesn't benefit from this, too?

They all get huge subsidies, many of them probably well-hidden. The never-ending exchange of broadsides between Boeing and Airbus is like a couple of kids arguing over who's got the most sand in the sand box.

Now -- if you want to talk subsidies -- go after the US and the EU on agriculture. That's the big leagues. Boeing and Airbus (and Bombardier and Embraer) are penny-ante compared to that.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineBlackbird1331 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1893 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2278 times:

One more thing. How the hell could you have a serious discussion about commercial airplanes and not come up with A&B? Get serious. That is the only way you can solve a problem, anyway, and that is to get serious about it. I just read a story about Lockheed Martin backing out of a deal with Titan because of alleged bribes to overseas customers. Reality check.


Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
User currently offlineMotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3199 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2273 times:

Ken777 & Others

This Pritchard chap that the topic's about is not an Airbus employee. He's an independent research associate at the Canada-United States Trade Center in the UB Department of Geography.

This article is not about Airbus crying foul, but about two researchers attesting to illegal international trade and subsidy practice by Boeing. They cite specific incidents and breaches of international law which if true, cannot be ignored by authorities.

Que sera I guess
Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2245 times:

The Airbus subsidy is in the form of repayable loans with interest for aircraft development.
****

While it is clear that both sides bend rules, one of the major issues Boeing has is the fact that many of the loans given to Airbus are only repayable if the line makes a profit, making it a lot easier for Airbus to take new risks.

J


User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5028 posts, RR: 44
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2237 times:

Jwenting,

It's not like Airbus who get billions and billions in subsidies directly so they can deliver aircraft beneath production cost with the sole purpose of driving Boeing out of business.

Are you going to back any of that up with anything close to proof? Or is it as usual with you, where you proclaim your fantasies as facts on here?


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