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Flights On 2001 Sept 13? (Fahrenheit 9/11)  
User currently offlineEddieho From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 229 posts, RR: 3
Posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12429 times:

Hi all,

I just went to watch Fahrenheit 9/11, and it mentioned on how all the flights were grounded, except "high authorization" was given to flights that flew Saudis and the Bin Laden family back to Saudi Arabia, immediately after the 9/11 attacks.

Now... it showed that the flights that went to Saudi Arabia was on September 13. When exactly did airlines start flying again after 9/11? (Someone remind me). And, does anyone know of flights with special priority flying to Saudi Arabia on 9/13 because I haven't heard of it until I watched the movie.

(In the movie it showed a whole list of flights that was bound to Saudi Arabia- around 20 of them).

P.S. Fahrenheit 9/11 is really good (I cried in some scenes). I think it's very all rounded, covering politics, saudis, and of course, the soldiers.

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12363 times:

I remember hearing about this a while back, something about them being the only non-goverment, non-necessary (police, medical, etc) flights that were conducted.

User currently offlineEddieho From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 229 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12316 times:

I'm trying to find out is that when flights resumed after Sept 11? (Cuz the Saudi Arabian flights were on Sept. 13). (International flights).

If flights resumed days after sept 13, then the film has a point. If not, then the film has no point (well that particular argument, for that matter).

P.S. Watch the documentary and decide for yourself before making opinions  Smile


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12302 times:

They where Chartered business jets


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineMd80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2660 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12288 times:

The flights MM spoke of DID in fact take place. I'm surprised no one from here happened to notice a few lone aircraft operating on a day when none should have been expected. It seems that a plane cannot go to the bathroom without a A.netter getting a pic of it. So what happened during those few days....were you all in hibernation?

There's nothing illegal about being partners in business with Saudi's, but there is something wrong when said people lie about it when questioned.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12279 times:

I just saw it too and had the same question.

Just as a guess, I checked the NWA website and I got this information:

Sept. 14 - Northwest Airlines resumes limited commercial service.


So, service really didn't start until the 14th, but the Saudis were removed before then.


User currently offlineTekelberry From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1459 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12270 times:

I also saw the movie. The movie never said all airplanes were grounded when the authorization was given. Specific commercial flights were given authorization to operate, as well as these charters carrying the Bin Ladens.

The movie is misleading in this aspect. I read an article somewhere that explained what I just said above.


User currently offlineEddieho From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 229 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12221 times:

Yes, the film did show proof (documents) of the Saudi Arabian flights, and of course, interviews with former FBI, etc, and also a small newspaper article.

Does anyone know about the Sept 13 flights or when exactly did flights resume? (Let's not blame Moore... he's just a director)


User currently offlineSquirrel83 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12195 times:

I saw the movie today, it was moving and had some good poInts. . . There were COMmercial airlines involved as well on the 13th, thats all I know . .

User currently offlineLtbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13138 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 12079 times:

Any commercial airliner flights on 9/13/01 were only repositioning or crew transport flights or maybe those who were stopped in Canada comming from Europe. From what I recall, true commercial paid passanger flights were not resumed until the following Monday. From the 12th to the 20th, the only real flights were those by the President, US military, Police, FBI, CIA, human transplant transfer, medical supplies (drugs), important financial papers (had to keep the banks open and the money flowing even during a war like crises, and that is understandable).
Richard Clark, the guy who got a lot of publicity for his book condemming Bush recently, was the one whom authorized some of the 'emergency flights' described in F-9/11. These were on government or private bizjets or small jet charters. They included members of the bin Ladan family, some of whom were respected residents or here legaly in the US.
While I agree that they all - Saudi princes or binLaden family members - shoud have been 'transported' for their safety from potential assult by members of the public (or maybe they should have left them to the hands of the mobs) they should have ALL been brought to a military base for intensive interrigation, their financial accounts frozen in the USA, and held until we captured their perveted relative/fellow Saudi. As to the 'princes' they are a dime a dozen, and there are problems as to 'diplomatic immunity' with them. It was not well reported, but in the days and months following 9/11, there were hundreds of assults in the USA on those thought to be Muslim, or wearing a turbin (like Sikks), so some protective removal has some reasoning. In some cases, some Saudis and other Arab region residents were allowed to leave on the next available commercial flights to Europe and to the Arab region when flights resumed.
Don't forget that Moore is using some 'creative license' in this film to put his point across, and sometimes stretched the truth. Yet, at other times, is more true than the press was at the time. Don't forget, we were traumatized, united against this new enemy, and wanted avengece as soon and as severe as possible (three weeks later we were in Afganistan). For many months, the press didn't take a critical view of the proposed policies of war on terror of Bush, or note challanges of the public to them. Many people were thus sold a bill of bad goods as to going into Iraq.
Another problem as to when to resume flights after 9/11 for 'others' was the failure of security to then that had to be changed massively and immediately.
I hope the film isn't taken as the only story of that day or the time since then, but makes people think about what their government does from not just a short term view, but a long term view.


User currently offlineEddieho From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 229 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 12030 times:

Hmm thats very imformative... thanks Ltbewr...

User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2565 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 12010 times:

The previous posters are correct; the announcement saying that flights were being resumed came out on the afternoon of the 13th. Of course the airlines couldn't just start flying right away as aircraft, passengers, crews, etc had to be prepped and the airline infrastructure put back into motion. Most airlines (including Hawaiian where I was working) resumed their flights on the morning of the 14th.

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineNeptunescar From Maldives, joined Dec 2003, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 11951 times:

i flew on 9/13 from Oklahoma City to San Francisco on UA (we stopped there while on MIA SFO on 9/11) in the evening. we were told that we were first priority due to aircraft repositioning (they needed the 762 in SFO) as they started the regular passenger flights on 9/14. when we arrived in SFO we were the first plane to land there the airport was deserted.


You call it the world, we call it home. Pan Am.
User currently offline777ualsfo From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 11903 times:

I flew 9/13 evening den-sfo, UAL was running their 777 back to SFO, very empty terminals and flights but things were running.

User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 11893 times:

US carriers were cleared to resume UNRESTRICTED part 121, part 129, part 131, part 135 and part 107 operations both internationally and domestically on the afternoon of September 13, 2001.

Canadian carriers were cleared to resume scheduled flag operations on September 14, 2001.

All other carriers were permitted to complete "diversion recovery operations from Canada" (not from any other diversion point) on September 13, 2001.

All other carriers were permitted to complete "recovery and repatriation operations" from all points on a case-by-case basic on September 14, 2001.


User currently offlineEddieho From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 229 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 11882 times:

I see... about how many flights were there on Sept 13? Does anyone know?

PS. This forum isn't about Moore, it's just about what happened to airlines on Sept 13 and whether or not flights that were prioritized for S. Arabia did fly... (See other forum if u wanna make opinions)


User currently offlineEddieho From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 229 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 11873 times:

B747-437... You mentioned diversions etc happening and domestic flights. Were there any international flights? Or to put it another way, were there any RECORDED international flights...

User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 11874 times:

Eddieho, at the time the focus was primarily to get scheduled operations back on their feet. I know that I wasn't particularly concerned about any other flights and by September 13 there were literally hundreds of recovery flights in progress (both international and domestic) so that a handful of bizjets heading to Saudi were not particularly on the radar so to speak.

User currently offlineMeister808 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 973 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 11592 times:

OK... so what we have decided was that on 9/13/01, flights were allowed to resume.

I don't really think this is a big deal, because those of us who saw the movie know that, at NO POINT, does Moore say that all flights were grounded. He insinuates it pretty hard, and the layperson who doesn't know about aviation assumes that airplanes were still grounded, but the film never states as such. It was something that I noticed as soon as he started talking about it.

I do agree, though, that it may have been a rather good idea to question the Saudis who knew Osama Bin Laden before we let them book it back home.

-Meister



Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 11471 times:

I thought it was 9/14/2001 that the F.A.A. and the D.O.T. allowed flights to resume. But whatever.....

On the other hand, most airlines were not flying full schedules. Alot of flights were cancelled. I remember AS was flying only 45% of its schdule on 9/14/01. Some other carriers were flying about the same. I think WN was flying at 70% of their regular schedule. Honestly, I dont remember exact stats.

As for Michael Moore's movie/documentry, I dont have a slight interest in seeing it and I won't. I have no interest in watching a movie full of video clips. Most of his movies are hearsay and a full of BS. Im beginning to dislike Michael Moore, he thinks he is Mr. Know-It-All. Yes, its is right per the 1st amendment of the U.S. constitution to voice his opinion, but Im sure many other people don't necessarly agree with Michael Moore's opinion. Still, he needs to get his facts straight. Makes you wonder if he is a fan of that lame idiotic website 'letsroll911.com' he probably is.....

I also heard (no source here...again...the wonderful world of television...) that someone is going to make a rebuttal to Mr. Moore's documentary and will entitle it "Michael Moore Hates America".

Disclamer: Its just my opinion about Michael Moore. Im not trying to sound anti-american at all (which Im not anti-american, Im proud of being an american...) so please dont bash me for my opinion.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 11291 times:

I remember hearing about this a while back, something about them being the only non-goverment, non-necessary (police, medical, etc) flights that were conducted.

Working for a medivac company in Alaska, I can tell you that it was a pain in the butt too.

If memory serves we had to file all flight plans IFR through Kenai Flight Service, which covers our operations area, we had to have Social Security Numbers, Date of Births, and names of the crewmembers to give to the FAA, they then had to call NORAD to get approval and a T-sponder code that we would then use for the flight.

Slowed every flight down by a 10-15 minutes, in an area where time really counts.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4575 posts, RR: 41
Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 10691 times:

I have just spent the best part of half an hour removing 20 (exactly one half!) of the replies from this topic. Please keep this discussion on track - i.e. about what happened on the 13th of September, when civil aviation was allowed to resume after the 11th of September, etc.

If you want to discuss politics, or the merits of Fahrenheit 9/11, please do so in the Non-Aviation Forum, where there are plenty of threads on those subjects and related issues.

If I have to remove any more off topic posts from this thread, it will be locked, and the offending poster or posters will receive a short suspension. I would much rather it didn't have to come to that.

V/F



"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
User currently offlineAir2gxs From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 10608 times:

I travelled ORD-FCO on 9/13/2001 with AA.

User currently offlineBigfoot From Italy, joined Dec 2003, 65 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 10549 times:

As far as I recall, the first foreign plane to land on US soil was an Alitalia MD-11 that stopped in Canadian territory. I believe it was September 14 early morning west coast time.


Madness takes its toll, please have exact change
User currently offlineWIDEBODYPHOTOG From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 917 posts, RR: 67
Reply 24, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 10420 times:

I have not read all the posts here but I was at Dulles (IAD) on and after September 11, 2001 and our ship was the first international flight to leave there after the attacks. NH001 departed the morning of September 13 after being diverted to DTW and grounded for 2 days.


widebodyphotog



If you know what's really going on then you'll know what to do
25 Rjpieces : Did anybody notice when they zoomed in on the document showing how many flights had left with Saudis? On the right side of the screen it said point of
26 Md80fanatic : http://www.saintpetersburgtimes.com/2004/06/09/Tampabay/TIA_now_verifies_flig.shtml
27 Bostonguy : The 9/11 Commission discovered that no such flights removing Saudi's took place. I just find it hard to believe that this actually happened. Reminds m
28 Eddieho : Good link, MD80Fanatic
29 Artsyman : While I obviously cannot verify the following, much of the commentary I have heard on this is actually slanting towards these planes taking the hijack
30 Cicadajet : I believe there were quite *more* than a handful of flights in the immediate aftermath of 911 allowing Saudis to be whisked out of the USA. About 15-1
31 LongHauler : Air Canada started flying again the afternoon of September 13. I flew one of the first flights back ... YXE-YWG-YOW-YYZ It was a full revenue flight w
32 Macmac76 : I did not see the movie and will not see it. The 9/11 Commission concluded that the aforementioned flights took place when airspace reopened. MM seem
33 SQ452 : Authorization was given to the Bin Laden family (quite a few of them live in the U.S.) to leave the U.S. for Saudi Arabia I believe. Believe it or not
34 Elwood64151 : So, service really didn't start until the 14th, but the Saudis were removed before then. Northwest didn't begin service until the 14th. I was on the N
35 Eddieho : Btw: I think the message of the film wasn't only about planes headed for Saudi Arabia before they left, but specifically focused on why Saudis and the
36 Jwenting : there's lies, damned lies and Moore Lies... If there were flights they were after the US airspace was opened. If they were shortly after it was opened
37 B747-437B : Air Canada started flying again the afternoon of September 13 AC started domestic Canadian operations wholly within Canadian airspace on that day. The
38 Ckfred : If someone really want to know what happened on 9/13, by advice would be to file a Freedom of Information Act (FOAI) request with the FAA for all flig
39 Vctony : I recall the reading something (I don't quite recall the source) that the Saudis did leave the country when the airspace reopened (ie, they didn't lea
40 Post contains images Aerosvit : mmk...thanks for the info ....I just usually watch C-SPAN and see what's up with Congress...
41 Post contains links Espion007 : OK,absolutley everything about this topic can be found here: http://snopes.com/rumors/flight.htm Its very detailed and even has the sources at the bot
42 AirEMS : I remember that on the night of September 11 or maybe it was the early early morning of September 12 my air medical group (Flight For Life Denver) fle
43 Eddieho : The point about that piece of info in the movie wasn't about the flights that were authorized, it was about the Saudis and Bin Ladens that were allowe
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