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Increased Competition From Air New Zealand  
User currently offlineQantasflyer From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 396 posts, RR: 2
Posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4415 times:

Do you think that the recently announced cabin refurbishments and enhancements will affect Qantas or other airlines in the region? If so what do you think QF can do to make its product more attractive to its customers, what improvements would you like to see?

Me personally i think that QF could upgrade its IFE to AVOD and i really think that they shoukd put footrests in Economy class.


Qantasflyer That's the spirit. The Spirit of Australia!
52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCx123 From Australia, joined May 2004, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4402 times:

And possibly Upgrade its F Class
Upgrade its Skybeds IMMEDIATELY
Add a New Premium Y Class Cabin
Introduce Interent functions
Upgrade its Inferior Lounge
The list goes on.....

I think given their Trunk routes are still under guard, they are safe for the time being, but Hopefully not for long.


User currently offlineQantasflyer From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 396 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4386 times:

Do you really think that there would be enough demand for a premium Y class cabin from two airlines in the one region? Why do you regard its lounge as being inferior? they contantly recieve awards of recognition. However i do support your idea in upgrading the F class as there is little difference in the product of F and J only F being flat and of course the vast difference in price and as you know i support your view in upgrading its Skybeds.


Qantasflyer That's the spirit. The Spirit of Australia!
User currently offlineQantaspower From Australia, joined Aug 2002, 516 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4382 times:

Oh for heavens sake ... we have just had some former bankrupt airline which was bailed out by it's Govt finally announce that 12 months out they are finally going to come up to speed with things like PTV's etc etc Give me a break!!!

Qantas CEO has already announced they are currently evaluating AVOD ... it will of course be available on the A380. The Rockwell Collins system can easily be upgraded.

Business class has just been relaunched and has had great reviews from clients and is doing great business on QF's LHR routes. Comments from anti QF crusader Cx123 are ridiculous in regard to Sybed ... are you an ex Ansett employee???

QF new all about flatbeds before introducing Skybed and found it superior to BA's flatbed.

QF may introduce a premium economy on the A380 but will not on the 744's. Remember ANZ and Virgin have no First class.

But yes ANZ currently does not offer any competition to QF ... the current product is dreadful. So this will keep QF on it's toes and that is a good thing.



User currently offlineCx123 From Australia, joined May 2004, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4355 times:

I am NOT Ex-Ansett, But I do Admit they offered a better service to QF back then!

As for the SYD lounge, I don't consider the F Class lounge is up to standard (compare to CX and SQ) Especially SYD is the hub!

1) Catering is terrible
2) Size is small and shared by ALL ONEWORLD carriers
3) Lack of facilities ( The Internet station was extremely SLOW and lack of machines!)
4) Entertatinment in the Lounge?

I tried the Skybed, but find them the same as CX, SQ, etc.... Can you honestly tell me you prefer to sleep at an angle compared to BA. I know BA might not be the best, but I personally prefer them.


Also your comment about "former bankrupt airline which was bailed out by it's Govt finally announce that 12 months out they are finally going to come up to speed with things like PTV's etc etc Give me a break!!!"

Look at CX! they suffered HARD!!! REAL HARD last year. Look at them!! Everything up to speed, Up to date!

It is just Australians a slow in adopting new things in general


User currently offlineQantasclub From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 757 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4346 times:


I totally agree with you, Qantaspower-ANZ is NO threat to Qantas on it's long haul routes, but is a keen competitor on the trans tasman routes on which it competes fairly well. The only long haul route where they compete is Aust/NZ-USA where Australians will have to transit through AKL with an extra stop. Therefore, even with the ANZ upgrades, Air New Zealand would have to offer a substantially better product as an incentive for the extra stopover, as well as charge less for it, which they have shown they are prepared to do. Either way, Qantas has such a large slice of trans pacific traffic from Australia that ANZ really is just a peripheral player rather than a threat. I believe that Qantas's keen efforts to buy part of ANZ is not to reduce competition long haul, but to neutralise competition across the tasman and save costs/boost it's profits even further.

About the Skybeds: as I said on a previous thread, each product has it's pros and cons. The BA bed, whilst being completely flat has drawn criticism for being too narrow, as well as half the passengers having to face the wrong way. CX/SQ and QF have gone down the same path with slightly tilted beds, but no doubt wider and for many people, more comfortable.
The VS/ANZ beds may be the best compromise of space in terms of width and also flatness, but I don't know if this is enough to make a difference in market share. not forgetting that this configuration means that they would be able to fit less seats per unit of space and have a higher bottom line to meet compared to it's competitors. So I think the QF bed holds up quite well.

AVOD and internet capabilities are upgradable on the QF system rather quickly and I think they will happen soon.

As for CX123's assessment lounge: The Qantasclub in SYD is great! Ok, not as good as the Wing at CLK or the lounge at Dubai, but otherwise, it is one of the best international lounges around.


Getting ack to the QF/ANZ competition thing: the fact is that since ANZ's bastardisation of ANSETT, it has been shut out of Australia's market share and therefore will never have the critical mass it needs to make any major dents in any significant market share. It's cashflow is only slowely returning back to it's pre-ansett levels and they still have years of heavy debt to service and pay off. One clue to this is the ridiculously extended timetable of refurbishments with these changes not being completed until the end of 2006-with a very small fleet-that's slow!



Long Haul is the only way to go
User currently offlineCx123 From Australia, joined May 2004, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4343 times:

"one of the best international lounges around"??

Urmm what about SQ @ SIN, MH at KUL, BA @ LHR, the list goes on......

Even I find the BA Lounge in JFK (Business) is better!

"slightly tilted beds" Urmm, I think it is more than slightly. It is not comortable to sleep in that position for an extended period of time.:

Also NO ONE has explained, what is so special about QF's Skybed, when compared to CX, SQ, NH etc.....


User currently offlineQantasflyer From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 396 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4330 times:

BEST LOUNGE - Final rankings

1.
Cathay Pacific

2.
Emirates

3.
Gulf Air

4.
Malaysia Airlines

5.
Qantas

6.
SAS Scandinavian Airlines

7.
Virgin Atlantic

8.
Asiana Airlines

9.
British Airways



10.
South African Airways

Taken from sky trax best lounge 2004 result



Qantasflyer That's the spirit. The Spirit of Australia!
User currently offlineCx123 From Australia, joined May 2004, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4317 times:

I thought I commented on that Lounge survey already. How can BA and VS be behind QF??? Can someone please explain??

In terms of service, facilities and ambience, I am sure BA and VS is better.

But anyway QF should Upgrade the lounge soon (I think it has been there for a LONG time!)


User currently offlineQantasflyer From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 396 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4313 times:

I must say CX123 the QF lounge is quite good!


Qantasflyer That's the spirit. The Spirit of Australia!
User currently offlineCx123 From Australia, joined May 2004, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4310 times:

Have you being to LHR and HKG? and experienced the CX and BA/VS Lounge.

I mena compared to AA's Admirals Lounge QF is 10 times better, however since SYD in their HUB city, I think it is better if they expand the lounge and increase the offerings.
The shit thing since CX got rid of their lounge in SYD is the face I have to use the QF Lounge all the time, so I know it inside out already.

It is a NICE place to relax still (If not FULL, which can be since BA, CX all share this lounge) but as a HUB city, QF can do better.


User currently offlineQantasflyer From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 396 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4305 times:

While i stand behind the SYD lounge and think it is amongst the best in the world, there is always room for improvement and i think that airlines should continously upgrade their product to meet the demands of the industry.


Qantasflyer That's the spirit. The Spirit of Australia!
User currently offlineQantasclub From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 757 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4293 times:


Hmm. i think your standards are very high, Cx123. You are right in that QF doesn't have THE best lounge. But it's in the top 5 in the world, easy. That's pretty good, and CERTAINLY better than ANZ which is what this thread is about.



Long Haul is the only way to go
User currently offlineBeno From Australia, joined Aug 2002, 428 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4277 times:

CX123,

You should stop trying to compare CX/SQ with QF.

QF is a MUCH larger operation, CX/SQ only operate from 1 major gateway while QF operate from at least 6 to 7 Intl gateways.

QF has a large domestic and Intl operation as well as QLink, AO, JQ which is alot harder to manage than just one Intl operation like SQ/CX.

QF are rolling out the skybed as quickly as they can, but they are also trying to upgrade the 743s take delivery of new A330s put some A330s through Intl conversion as well as set up a new LCC the list goes on.


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7107 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4269 times:

Just out of interest and off topic, when are QF going to replace their 743s? and are there any 742s left? I havent seen a QF 742 in a while and they were regular visitors to AKL a couple of years ago.
What are they going to replace them with? Is it going to be the 744ER? or an Airbus?


User currently offlineQantasflyer From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 396 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4263 times:

The 743's will bea round for a while to come i think till 2006 and no all the B742's departed the QF fleet in 2002.


Qantasflyer That's the spirit. The Spirit of Australia!
User currently offlineCx123 From Australia, joined May 2004, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4252 times:

Beno

" as quickly as they can,"

As discussed before QF is installing it as SLOW as they can on certain Routes (eg. LAX) so they can MAX out profit.

I will not be surprised if the Skybeds are not available on LAX till next year!




User currently offlineBeno From Australia, joined Aug 2002, 428 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4248 times:

QF107 SYD-LAX-JFK yesterday was operated by OJO a skybed aircaft.

User currently offlineCx123 From Australia, joined May 2004, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4235 times:

Last minute Adjustment, Must be because the regular 744 is on maintenance. Even on QF they CANNOT Guarantee it yet till later this year.

User currently offlineB-HXB From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 745 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4135 times:

I agree that the QF lounge at SYD is actually very poor for a newly constructed lounge. All the points mentioned earlier by CX123 are all valid.

Catering is limited to biscuits, cold cuts, few sweet slices - not impressive.

The lounge gets very full in the afternoon, since in addition to the QF flights there are the two BA flights and the CX flight.

The internet connection is awfully slow. For a newly built lounge not installing broadband is unacceptable.

QF could do far better and indeed the NZ lounge at Sydney does do better with respect to catering and business facilities, compared with the QF lounge at SYD which is embarassing given SYD is QF's home city.


User currently offlineAerohottie From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 802 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4092 times:

Here is my verdict.

Having used both QF and NZ lounges at SYD, I would have to say the NZ lounge is much roomier, I mean the lounge is huge!!!
Catering is ok (I prefer QF catering), and Business facilities in the QF are marginally better IMO.

I think the NZ lounge in SYD is better than the NZ lounge in AKL. QF have a really crap lounge in AKL though.



What?
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3096 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4068 times:

"Do you think that the recently announced cabin refurbishments and enhancements will affect Qantas or other airlines in the region?"

The answer is no. Not unless Air New Zealand is going to re-start flying direct to places like LAX from Australia. The fact they are converting to 2 class configuration and ditching first class is just them catching up to the realities of the region they primarily operate in and who their market is.

"If so what do you think QF can do to make its product more attractive to its customers, what improvements would you like to see?"

QF's capital expenditure program is currently in the buy planes, refurnish the fleet mode mainly. Under James Strong it went through a build terminals and upgrade facilities phase. So the investment in its on-board product is taking precedence at the moment. When we next see improvements to it's ground facilities I personally think that number 1 on the list should be a significant expansion of the Perth Domestic Terminal, (because it is inadequate for the number of planes and volume of traffic that it is now passing though it), and upgrade the Sydney lounge. Personally I dont like the footrests on-board but QF's product should at least match SQ's Internationally.

"As discussed before QF is installing it as SLOW as they can on certain Routes (eg. LAX) so they can MAX out profit."

CX why do you have a bee in your bonnet about an airline that makes money. They ARE rolling out the skybeds as per their schedule and the fact that it may be slower than what you like it isn't going to make them withdraw their 747 fleet earlier and disrupt schedules to fit them out. Beno provided a list of the converted ones in another thread. Plus from a profit point of view the finance people at QF would expect an increased IRR and ROCE from the enhancements they are making. Therefore the MAX profit will occur after installation not before.

"I will not be surprised if the Skybeds are not available on LAX till next year!"

So what!!!!! I'm sure they will be available to London, Frankfurt and other 744 destinations.



User currently offlineAussie747 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4008 times:

"I will not be surprised if the Skybeds are not available on LAX till next year!"

CX123 do a little research before you quote.

You will find that at the moment about a third of the scheduled services to LAX are currently fitted with skybed, just ring up somebody, seat map will let you know if it has the skybed only four rows on the botton. In any case by the end of September all three class aircraft to the USA will be complete with skybed. All 744' s will be completed just after the new Year, about 2 to three months ahead of schedule.


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7107 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3981 times:

Thanks Qantasflyer, I've only been to the NZ lounge in AKL, it's pretty flash, free drinks yay  Big grin

User currently offlineCx123 From Australia, joined May 2004, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3925 times:

I don't want to do this, but you guys force to to QUOTE the following again:



Also NOTE that the flights to the US are NOT guaranteed on Skybeds, as mentioned by the CSO of QF!!

Just admit it, they QF is SLOW in adopting everything.


Latest News
Qantas Puts Beds in Business Class
SYDNEY, 20 May 2002

Qantas today announced that it would invest $300 million to relaunch its International Business Class, featuring new seats that convert to beds.

Qantas Chief Executive Officer Geoff Dixon said the new Qantas International Business Class would offer the highest level of comfort and service, with custom-built seats that set a new standard in aircraft seat design.

"We believe our new seats will be the best all-round Business Class seats in the sky," Mr Dixon said.

"The Business Class cabin configuration will have 15 fewer seats than are currently on board, giving customers more space."

Features of the new Qantas Business Class seat include:

* 6'6" length and 25" width when fully reclined;
* A fixed cocoon-style seat surround to provide maximum privacy and provide a barrier to cabin noise;
* Extensive adjustment control to ensure maximum comfort in any position for all customers regardless of their height;
* Storage options for reading materials and other possessions, including a shoe cupboard and glove box for spectacles and travel documents;
* A PC power outlet that allows laptops to be plugged straight in without the need for adaptor cables;
* A large 10.4" screen offering multi-channel entertainment;
* A back massage feature; and
* High-quality noise cancellation headsets.

Mr Dixon said Qantas had developed the design in partnership with one of the world's leading industrial designers, London-based Australian Marc Newson, and US manufacturer BE Aerospace.

"The design process followed extensive research involving our business customers who told us they wanted a seat that converted into a bed for sleeping but which also offered the maximum level of comfort as an armchair, dining chair and work chair. They also wanted privacy, flexibility and personal space.

"We believe our new seats will exceed our customers' expectations, with regard to both the seat and the innovative way we are using the surrounding space," Mr Dixon said.

"Marc Newson's seat designs for the home have achieved icon status in design and architecture circles. We believe the Qantas Business Class seat, which not only looks fantastic but sets new standards for comfort and ease of use, will achieve the same fame."

Mr Dixon said the re-designed Qantas International Business Class would also include:

* a lighting system designed exclusively for Qantas;

* artworks on display at the front of the cabin;

* a self-service bar area;

* new-style catering to provide more choice and flexibility; and

* a range of improvements on the ground such as more secluded premium check-in areas offering more personal service.

Installation of the new Business Class seats will start within the next 12 months and be introduced initially on the airline's London and Hong Kong routes in the first half of 2003.

This latest investment follows a range of international product and service enhancements including:

* This month's opening of a new flagship Qantas Club at the Sydney International Terminal with facilities for up to 500 Business Class and 150 First Class customers - the largest departure lounge in the Southern Hemisphere;

* New international lounges in Melbourne and Honolulu, and for First Class customers in Singapore;

* Plans for new First and Business Class lounges in Bangkok and a new Singapore Business Class lounge;

* Installation of a $300 million in-flight entertainment system in the airline's Boeing 747-400 aircraft featuring individual seat back videos in Economy Class, larger touch screens and PC Power in First and Business Class and in seat telephones in all classes - due for completion early next year;

* Re-designed 747-400 cabin interiors with new seat fabrics, curtains, carpet, pure woollen blankets, pillows and in First Class, doonas; and

* Six new Boeing 747-400 Extended Range aircraft to be delivered from November 2002.

"We are committed to continually looking at ways to improve our product to ensure our customers have the best possible experience when flying Qantas," Mr Dixon
Issued by Qantas Public Affairs (2704)
Email: qantasmedia@qantas.com.au



25 ANstar : Didn't it take SQ a while to sort their new business class out? God, BA have been working on it for nearly 4 years now! Its reality... QF gave a sched
26 Sydscott : "Also NOTE that the flights to the US are NOT guaranteed on Skybeds, as mentioned by the CSO of QF!!" The CEO specifies Hong Kong and London so you a
27 Cx123 : ANstar, get your facts RIGHT! Yes BA introduced the beds for more than 4 years, but when they first launched it it was available on SYD-LHR, LHR-HKG,
28 ClassicLover : Again, people having a go at the scheduled roll out of the Qantas Skybed. QF announced in June 2002 (from memory) that they would -begin- rolling out
29 ANstar : CX123, What facts did I get wrong with the BA rollout? If you care to do some seaching on the net you will see their was oodles of conusion on BA's ro
30 Aerokiwi : So if Qantas is taking 2 years from announcement to action to actually implement its sleeper beds, what justification does anyone have to criticise Ai
31 Qantasclub : Aerokiwi: "So if Qantas is taking 2 years from announcement to action to actually implement its sleeper beds, what justification does anyone have to
32 Cx123 : I am sorry if I offended anyone in this forum, I think in order to get back on track I just have the following to say. QF is a good airline, but they
33 Sydscott : "Just remember that Qantas had proper beds in the flying boats in the 1930s" If I recall correctly QF was also the first airline to have a business c
34 Lufthansa : God you guys dont get it. Air NZ isn't trying to pinch QF customers orginating in Australia, what they are trying to do is protect the NZ market to US
35 Oz777 : Qantasclub. Note your jibe about the leasing of the AirNZ B744's ".....they actually only own 4 747's....." What has that to do with the price of fish
36 Sydscott : "Care to have a look at how many QF B747's are leased or subject to financing." Ok. Here are the specifics from last years Annual Report; 747-400 - 1
37 Qantasclub : Oz777: "Care to have a look at how many QF B747's are leased or subject to financing. And don't even look at the B767 fleet - BA one's included. If t
38 Lufthansa : QFclub and friends who insist on bashing AirNZ. When was the last time you were actually onboard an AirNZ long haul flight on a 744? Firstly, the best
39 Qantasclub : Lufthansa, thank you for your fantastic reply. I agree with what you say, especially about the need for ANZ to protect it's home market. The ANZ bash
40 Cx123 : I think the general HATE of Australians on NZ is due to the fact of that Fat Toohey who Fuc8ed up AN.
41 Nz1 : Cz123, hang on their brother. Toomey was a scapegoat, the fallguy. He did nothing to screw up the collapse of AN. Lets get this thread back on topic s
42 Post contains images 777ER : I think the general HATE of Australians on NZ is due to the fact of that Fat Toohey who Fuc8ed up AN. Our friends in Australia need to remember that G
43 Nz1 : 777ER, well said my man. Regards NZ1
44 Cx123 : See all the NZ people start getting DEFENSIVE!!! hahaha BTW I am NOT an Australian so I am NOT going to get into this Aust vs NZ debate. But I know th
45 777ER : See all the NZ people start getting DEFENSIVE!!! hahaha Well all I was doing was stating a FACT which heaps of Aussies don't like to admit. Have you e
46 Cx123 : I know, the Australians only go themselves to blame!
47 Qantasclub : Gary Toomey was just a fallguy trying to do an impossible job. Air New Zealand under the leadership of that idiot Sir Selwyn Cushing under delusions
48 Aerohottie : Qantasclub, your reply was fact right up till the last sentence "When asked about Ansett staff entitlements, the ANZ's board's response was :"we have
49 Sydscott : " I wonder how many Aussies have read the book on the Ansett collapse yet which states all the facts as to why Ansett collopsed?" I have. But as far
50 Cx123 : Another NZ vs AUS war here. Just like the A vs B wars
51 Aerohottie : Sydscott, Well done, finally an Aussie with the full picture. It does seem however that no matter how many times the real facts get told some just don
52 Qantasflyer : Also just a note.... I dont know how QF could win any awards as best Airline to the Pacific, when QF dont fly to the pacific??? Firstly QF never won a
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