The Ticketor From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 434 posts, RR: 2 Posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5476 times:
This is posted in a different thread, but as it is news (and news that I'm happy about), I thought it deserved it's own thread with a suitable topic name.
Press Release
30 June 2004
Finnair orders 12 New Jets
Finnair is renewing its fleet by acquiring 76-seat Embraer 170 jet aircraft. Finnair Aircraft Finance Ltd and the Brazilian aircraft manufacturer Embraer have agreed on the firm order of 12 aircraft and options for eight.
Finnair President and CEO Keijo Suila explains, "We have renewed half of our fleet in five years. Our operational environment is changing and the most successful will be the one who reacts quickly to the new situation and is among the first to take advantage of it. We are continuing with our strategy by acquiring the best possible fleet for our feeder traffic."
The Embraer 170 aircraft will replace the MD-80 fleet and ATR-72 turboprop aircraft which are being retired.
"Shifting to a single aircraft type will bring significant savings in operating costs. At the same time fuel consumption will be cut by a third and air traffic charges will decrease. From the passenger's viewpoint, Embraer aircraft are comfortable and fast. Thus we can improve on our already high standard of service," Suila continues.
The Embraer aircraft will be used in domestic and European traffic on routes and frequencies where demand is better met by an aircraft smaller than the Airbus A320s in Finnair's fleet.
"Our efficiency will improve as our route network and services become more varied. The new aircraft will give us flexibility to serve our clients on more routes and outside peak hours as well," says Suila.
Embraer has been designing and manufacturing aircraft for both commercial and military use for over 30 years. The new generation Embraer 170/190 family aircraft are the first commercial aircraft to receive type certificates this century. The aircraft engines, manufactured by General Electric, are clean-running and have a low noise level.
The value of the firm order aircraft on the basis of the manufacturer's listed price is approximately 320 million US dollars. The aircraft now on order will be delivered to Finnair Group's Finnair Aircraft Finance Ltd between September 2005 and May 2007.
The aircraft are already in service with some European and American airlines. The number of seats for the family of aircraft varies between 70 and 108. Embraer has over 250 orders and a little under 350 options for this new aircraft type from airlines around the world. Finnair's orders and options can be converted to other versions within the aircraft family.
Finnair Plc
Communications
30.6.2004
Images of aircrafts available at Embraer Image Gallery at www.embraer.com.
FunFlying From Finland, joined Jul 2001, 184 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5365 times:
I agree, this deserves its own topic
I have been waiting for this piece of news for long and this is a really good thing for Finnair; more frequencies and new destinations within Europe. Absolutely great! Awesome to see the Embo's in Finnair colours
767-332ER From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 12 Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5227 times:
Sad to see the end of the "MadDogs" is near. They've provided loyal and great service to LY for years!!! Nice to see the 170's in Finn's colors.
Regards
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15871 posts, RR: 66 Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5108 times:
Maybe the MD-8xs are not being used at full capacity, and/or the savings are still there if Finnair replaces some MD-8x flights with 2 EMB-170 flights.
But I'm just guessing here.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo
Lufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3174 posts, RR: 47 Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5080 times:
Most of the time the MD80s were about half full on my 50 HEL-RVN or v.v. flights I did about two years ago as I was working in RVN. I doubt these EMBs would be sent to MD80 destinations such as PRG, BUD etc. But on domestics, these planes should be much more economical than the MD80s.
FinnWings From Finland, joined Oct 2003, 640 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4993 times:
Fantastic news! This will enable Finnair to launch better feeder services to Helsinki hub and definitely enhance the position of Helsinki as a new major gateway.
What comes to MD-80 and ATR72 retirement, actually many of MD-80 routes have already been replaced by A320s... Nowadays MD-80s fly only domestic flights and some flights to Russia and Eastern Europe as well. Also flights to Dublin are operated by MD-80. For most of those domestic flights, especially outside of peak hours, MD-80 is too big... or at least it isn't cost effective. As we all know, MD-80 was not designed to be as a feeder. Most of MD-80s will be transferred to Aero Airlines which is 100% owned by Finnair. Those will fly maybe flights from Tallinn to some European destinations. All ATRs will join Aero Airlines fleet during this year as well...
These news are also sad, because "Maddog" 80 has been definitely an excellent workhorse for Finnair and one of the most reliable aircrafts ever built. No matter how bad and harsh weather condition, you have always been able to rely for MD-80 in terms of reliability. Finnair was also first customer for MD-83... AY was also the launch customer for ATR72-200 as well so these are quite remarkable retirements! I'll miss MD-80s and ATRs, I have had many great flights on those during my life.
Strongest candidates for new regional jets were Embraer 170 and CRJ 700/900... At this time Embraer was better and I think it is an excellent add-on for Finnair's fleet. Now they are able to serve destinations where A319 is too big or not enough cost-effective. I guess we will see many new AY destinations in Europe and definitely increased frequencies as well.
The Ticketor From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 434 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4919 times:
Embraer press release:
6/30/2004
FINNAIR PLACES ORDER FOR EMBRAER 170
Finnair Aircraft Finance Ltd and Embraer have today signed an agreement for an order of 12 EMBRAER 170 airliners. Finnair has also taken options on eight additional aircraft, which may be convertible to EMBRAER 175s or EMBRAER 190s. The value of the firm order at list price is US$ 306 million and the contract's potential value is US$ 510 million if all options are converted.
Configured to seat 76 passengers in a comfortable single class layout, the deliveries will begin in September 2005 and will continue through May 2007.
"It is an honor and privilege to welcome Finnair, one of the longest established operating airlines in the world, into our client base," said Frederico Fleury Curado, Embraer Executive Vice-President - Civil Aircraft. "Finnair enjoys a worldwide reputation for quality and sound airline management and it is a significant mark of confidence, for Embraer, to have been selected by this prestigious oneworld airline. We look forward to a long and fruitful relationship between Embraer and Finnair."
"We have renewed half of our fleet in five years. Our operational environment is changing and the most successful will be the one who reacts quickly to the new situation and is among the first to take advantage of it. We are continuing with our strategy by acquiring the best possible fleet for our feeder traffic," said Keijo Suila, Finnair President and CEO. "Shifting to a single aircraft type will bring significant savings in operating costs. At the same time fuel consumption will be cut by a third and air traffic charges will decrease. From the passenger's viewpoint, Embraer aircraft are comfortable and fast. Thus we can improve on our already high standard of service," Suila added.
Finnair celebrated its 80th anniversary in 2003 and remains young at heart. Embraer is proud to introduce its new EMBRAER 170, the first member of a new family of Embraer airliners, into its fleet.
The EMBRAER 170 aircraft will replace the MD-80 fleet and ATR-72 turboprop aircraft which are being retired.
As of March 31, 2004, the EMBRAER 170/190 family had logged 258 firm orders and 342 options from Air Caraibes, Alitalia, Cirrus, GECAS, JetBlue Airways, LOT Polish Airlines, SWISS, U.S. Airways and Republic Airways. Currently, there are EMBRAER 170s in service in Europe and the U.S.
Babybus From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3512 posts, RR: 6 Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4911 times:
It was a very wise decision to buy jets rather than props. I used to fly HEL-KOK (Kokkola) a lot and always welcomed seeing the faster DC9/MD80 rather than the slower ATR on the ramp.
It used to be a bit creepy sometimes getting on a virtually empty aircraft but now all that will be a thing of the past.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
DABZF From Germany, joined Mar 2004, 1190 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4881 times:
Good going AY another brilliant a/c choice after choosing the A320 family!
I've been wondering for a longer time why AY hasn't get any RJ's... now they have corrected their "mistake"
Getting rid of more MD's! It might have been a good work horse for AY before but today, I think, it's very inefficient for their operations and damn they are noisy!!!
EMB170 will be great for AY! As already mentioned, with 70-80 seats it will be perfect as they have been missing a/c in this class for international flights. For domestic routes it's not much different in size than ATR72 but maybe for the routes they are using MD's they can get more efficient!
I can't wait to see them EMB170's in AY colours
I like driving backwards in the fog cause it doesn't remind me of anything - Chris Cornell
Steph001 From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 315 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4746 times:
Hello,
thx for your answers. Slightly off-topic: it was often suggested on this forum that the turboprops are in general more cost effective than regional jets. How does the EMB170 compare to the ATR72 from this point of view?
Elcapi1980 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4726 times:
does anybody knows what are the 250 orders?
is this number combined betwen EMB170/190 or is it only for the 170..
Great for embraer .....and finnair.....
It is time for A'A (Eagle) to start replacing their Atr42/72....I will love to see that beauty in this livery.....
does anybody have a picture how will it look like?
Erikwilliam From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 2152 posts, RR: 13 Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4519 times:
Awesome NEWS for Finn, and Embraer. Also the stocks at EMB are up 1,16% now.
As an answer to Elcapi, the orders are combined (family 170/1790), and don´t count the number of planes delivered or options.Just see that UsAir have 85 orders and JetBlue 100....Also agree with U on A.Eagle, they are getting ride of F-100´s, time to buy EMB-170´s or 190´s(that I would personaly love).
This new family is doing very very well, Embraer expects to deliver 160 planes in 04 and 170 in 05. Hope so....
Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31118 posts, RR: 73 Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4444 times:
It is time for A'A (Eagle) to start replacing their Atr42/72....I will love to see that beauty in this livery.....
does anybody have a picture how will it look like?-
The ATR-42s are on the way out (very few left), but the ATR-72s aren't going anywhere. AA needs them, because thier ability to takeoff from many short Caribbean runways and to carry alot of cargo (especially for such a small plane) are critical. That's why you only see them out of MIA and SJU now, because the cargo revenue is huge, and many runways, like MHH and SLU, cannot handle a fully loaded RJ to SJU or MIA.
FlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 1965 posts, RR: 3 Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4407 times:
Good news for Embraer and Finnair. I'd hoped this expected order was going to be by BA CitiExpress (To replace the Dash 8s). The longer it's left the more likely it is that CitiExpress will be dropping more routes next year to phase out the props.
OV735 From Estonia, joined Jan 2004, 860 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4287 times:
I was waiting for that. Good news.
However, from May issue of Airliner World I read that Finnair would be planning to transfer some of the MD's and all ATR's to Aero Airlines (EE) when it starts receiving it's new regionals. So might it be that MD's won't be completely gone from Finnair Group after all?
Btw, Steph001, you should read some of the Finnair MD80 trip reports here in A.net. After I read them, I was left with the impression that they never carry more than 60-70 passengers.
Fido73 From Finland, joined Dec 2003, 33 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4251 times:
It is great that the Embo will enable Finnair to open new thin routes within Nordic countries, the Baltic and Eastern Europe! I expect to see them on HEL-GOT, HEL-OSL, HEL-RIX, HEL-VNO, HEL-TLL and HEL-WAW routes to begin with, as well as on the domestic sectors now served by MD-80s. The three MD-83s that today fly in Y162 configuration on charters and domestic routes will most probably be replaced by A320-family planes but I don´t see the ATR72 being retired anytime soon. They are being transferred to Finnair´s Estonian subsidiary Aero Airlines, which may also be the case for MD-80s. Or the MD-80s and B752s will go to Finnair´s Swedish subsidiary Nordic Airlink to fly low-cost and charter services.
One thing I was wondering though. The press releases talk about 76-seat configuration, but atleast LOT´s Embraer 170s have only 70 seats, so how minimal will the legspace be in Finnair´s cabin? And if Finnair can´t operate the 68-seat ATR profitably, how could it do it with the 76-seat EMB which as a jet has higher operating costs? My guess is that they will in the end be operated by an affiliate airline with lower costs, maybe in Finnair colors, maybe not.
Fido73 From Finland, joined Dec 2003, 33 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4217 times:
OV735,
On domestic services Finnair´s MD-80s sometimes carry very light loads but flights to PRG, BUD, WAW and DUB fly mostly with full cabins, especially during summer. And the charters they operate are of course always full. So it will not be a question of direct replacement of MD-80/ATR72-fleets by EMB but an addition to the current A32S-fleet for European and domestic routes.
Elcapi1980 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4181 times:
To MAH4546:
I am not questioning the performance and capacity of the atr's , I personally think the are perfect for short runways, but I also think that EMB170 can make it to those island even thought their Rwys are 4995ft and 6200 ft long respectively. Their specification shows a take-off distance of 3900ft in the 500nm range with is the distance that A'Eagle usually flies...so fuel economy, more cargo and pax load will play an important factor in their decicion to replace them or not....Midway airport has a rwy 5500ft long and you see 757-737-717, and many other aircraft taking off-. What why short field landing was made,wasn't it?
FinnWings From Finland, joined Oct 2003, 640 posts, RR: 3 Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4172 times:
turboprops are in general more cost effective than regional jets. How does the EMB170 compare to the ATR72 from this point of view?
Good question, Steph001... I think Embraer will replace some longer domestic sectors, where it can carry more cargo and few pax more than ATR. Turboprops aren't so cost effective on longer sectors and those ATRs might have some payload restrictions as well. On shorter sectors, like from Helsinki to Turku, Tampere (150km away from HEL) or Tallinn (50km) turboprops are definitely unbeatable by any jet. On those routes we will see definitely a lot of ATRs...I believe the key factor isn't the cost effectiveness, it is more like a quality issue as passengers prefer rather jets. Passengers don't prefer ATR72-200s mostly because they are quite loud... series 500 is much better and very quiet. Series 200 isn't so modern if compared to DHC-8Q400 or Saab 2000 and they are quite old already as the oldest (OH-KRA) is built in 1989. Anyway, those ATRs are still very good and proven their excellent reliability in winter conditions. Aero will get good aircrafts and Finnair has maintained those VERY well, I can say...
So might it be that MD's won't be completely gone from Finnair Group after all?
Yes, that is true... Most likely Aero will get some of AY's current MD-80s and those might fly still domestic flights in Finland with Aero crew or they might open some routes from Tallinn.... The reason why MD-80 could still fly domestic flights here in Finland is that Aero Airlines has lower cost-structure and therefore routes could be more profitable. Most likely we will see MD-80s based at Tallinn and flying from there to Scandinavia or Europe. Aero has planned long time new routes from Tallinn, I think they are just a matter of time. Estonian Air and Aero will have tough competition soon in Estonian market...
FinnWings From Finland, joined Oct 2003, 640 posts, RR: 3 Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4117 times:
My guess is that they will in the end be operated by an affiliate airline with lower costs, maybe in Finnair colors, maybe not.
I was just wondering the same... Finnair's other subsidiary FinnComm Airlines must play some part in this game... Currently they have one Embraer 145, OH-EBE.
FinnWings From Finland, joined Oct 2003, 640 posts, RR: 3 Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3892 times:
Fido73,
I thought Finnair owns FinnComm shares... thanks for correction. They must have very strong ties together anyway, as FinnComm operates Stuttgart and Kemi routes just for Finnair. I mean, it is more like a code-share partner as Finnair is giving some of their routes for FC... Aren't many of their executives ex-Finnair workers as well?
I have also heard that they have an agreement with Finnair not to operate any aircraft which have more than 80 seats... might be true or not, I don't know.
SonOfACaptain From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1747 posts, RR: 5 Reply 25, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3571 times:
A 76-seat layout doesn’t seem pretty comfortable, don’t you think. US Airways has their 170’s in a 72-seat layout, and that is comfortable. I know it’s just one extra row, but it’s cramming it in there.
Sponsor Message: 
From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 434 posts, 
From Finland, joined Jul 2001, 184 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2030 posts, 
From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 315 posts, 
From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15871 posts, 
From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3174 posts, 
From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 15989 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3512 posts, 
another brilliant a/c choice after choosing the A320 family!
From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 2152 posts, 
From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31118 posts, 
From Estonia, joined Jan 2004, 860 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
