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The World's Most Unsafe Airline  
User currently offlineQantasclub From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 757 posts, RR: 3
Posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 33692 times:

Was just wondering which carriers you guys would rate as the most unsafe airline-it's one thing to have a 'perception' of airlines that are unsafe vs the actual figures based on FRE which stands for fatal event rate which is a measure of how many crashes/fatalities over the number of flights:
These figures are taken from www.airsafe.com: go and have a look











[Edited 2004-07-02 06:29:50]

[Edited 2004-07-02 06:40:46]


Long Haul is the only way to go
105 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline777ualsfo From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 33543 times:

You are really looking at the wrong column to compare.

You should be comparing the rate (first column)
For this
UAL 0.37
AA 0.54
HIGHEST AirTran 5.88

Definition of the FLE is FLE - Full Loss Equivalent: This is the sum of the proportions of passengers killed for each fatal event. For example, 50 out of 100 passengers killed on a flight is an FLE of 0.50, 1 of 100 would be a FLE of 0.01. The fatal event rate for a set of fatal events is found by dividing the total FLE by the number of flights in millions.

So, this just tells you which airlines had accidents in which most of the passengers were killed - of course this is high for UAL and AA who both lost two large airliners to terrorists in 2001!

Most airlines rates are within the same range - shows how safety has improved over the years.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 12334 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 33513 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

So, according to this list, AA and UA are one the most unsafe airlines in the world, EVEN accounting for their high number of flights.

What do you guys think? Are you surprised by any of the above scores?

AA and UA don't surprise me considering the amount of aircraft the Airline and their subsideries operate,


User currently offlineQantasclub From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 757 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 33493 times:

ok, 777ualsfo-thanks, that does make sense-if I have time later, i will compile a list of the correct column. It's an interesting website for people to look at anyway.



Long Haul is the only way to go
User currently offlineCloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 33379 times:

What do you guys think? Are you surprised by any of the above scores?
AA and UA don't surprise me considering the amount of aircraft the Airline and their subsideries operate,
-----

Notice that he said "The fatal event rate for a set of fatal events is found by dividing the total FLE by the number of flights in millions."

This means the size on an airline is accounted for.

Since fatal events are so rare in airline travel, however, a single event can really skew the results. That is why airtran's is so high - it accounts for the Valuejet crash some time ago. Since Airtran does not fly nearly as many flights as AA, this makes for a higher figure.

If there were a dozen or so fatal events per year per major airline, maybe we would have enough incidents to draw conclusions. Since the number of fatal events even for a whole year is not statistically significant, we cannot really know how "safe" any given airline is.

That being said, a while back Korean Air had a pretty bad reputation. In fact, it was bad enough for the US defense department to prohibit their personel from flying on the airline. Their record also scared their codeshare partners (Delta I believe was one of them, I could be wrong). Their partners sent some experienced pilots and mechanics to teach Korean Air how to do things better, and their record improved.







User currently offlineTravatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2174 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 33330 times:

OMG - This stupid website again. That "5.88" rating has been around for about 7 years, when ValuJet first became AirTran. And about once a year, somebody posts something about it on this forum...then all the fools jump on the "AirTran's unsafe!" bandwagon, and pull out this NTSB report, and that NTSB report, spouting half truths, and unsourced information.

These days, if an airline is flying in the US, it's perfectly safe.

GOOD DAY!

Travis


User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 33246 times:

airtran may have a high rate, but they've only had one loss. it was a doozey, but just one.

i think it's a very safe operation.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineCessnaLady From Mexico, joined May 2004, 310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 33218 times:

QUESTION: (don't shoot me!)

Is there any chance that any accident goes unreported? Example: there was a lot of talk, about 10-12 years ago, that TAESA, a now-defunct airline in Mexico, had lost a ferrying B732 near MZT, and that the news piece was hushed at all costs... I haven't found anything related to such pretended accident - other than the pertinent a/c being registered as a "write-off" due to age and "structural damage du to metal fatigue - crystallization"...

What about accidents in the former Soviet Union / Communist block? Were they all reported/leaked to the Western world?

Marie



User currently offlineTravatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2174 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 33203 times:

Not only that, if you use the figures that airsafe.com itself uses, and then add the flights that AirTran has flown since this was actually started, AirTran's "Flights" column has actually jumped to .92 (this site "flights" hasn't been updated since 1998 when AirTran was flying 230 flts a day). THEN you divide the FLE by the total number of flights in millions, it gives you a new "RATE" of 1.08, down from 5.88....still twice as high as say American's, but a fifth of what it was 7 years ago. However, it still shows then just how ludicrous this "analysis method" is.

If jetBlue had a crash tomorrow, despite their fleet being only 10 fewer than AirTran's, their "RATE" would jump through the ceiling simply because they have far fewer flights a day (so many transcons), and thus fewer flights to compare to.

This guy should be run out of town for posting what looks to be legitimate data, when it is actually nothing but dramatic drivel.

Travis




User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3224 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 33198 times:

I think this is the wrong measure

I would be more concerned about carriers that have trouble gaining spares, training and techonology thanks to UN and US sanctions. For example, IRANAIR, or that recent south american, i think it was Aerocontie?

Also, I'd be concerned about carriers in Africa that disregard proceedures/regulations thanks to corrupt attutides (such as the former Nigeria Airways) or that the president of their Tin Pot country desides to "borrow" there 1965 727-100.

I've heard rumors that Biman has major problems with their F28s, and some of the former soviet republics "new" private airlines did have problems in the early and mid-nineties, but these seem to have been cleared up. I ersonally would feel much safer on an Aeroflot Tu-154 or just about any 727-200 leaving Rio di Geniro, than anything in central Africa. Some of their airports don't even have fences, let alone anything else.


User currently offlineSurrenr From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 92 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 33101 times:

CHINA AIRLINES!!!!!!

User currently offlineWGW2707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1197 posts, RR: 34
Reply 11, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 33069 times:

AeroContinente (or AeroCocainente as I like to call it) was blacklisted primarily because of the founder's association in the drug trade, although I would not be at all suprised if their maintenance is subpar.

China Airlines is probably one of the more unsafe airlines. From all accounts, their pilots are crazy. If I ever need to go to TPE, I'll probably fly another airline.

KAL used to have a bad reputation, but they have improved.

Orient Thai is supposed to be a disaster waiting to happen, but since someone's wrecking their planes I don't think we have to worry about it anymore...

There is a risk associated with most charter airlines operating to Jeddah. One should perhaps avoid Northeast Bolivian Airlines, and most of the African airlines. I would guess North Korea's flag carrier Air Koryo is pretty darn unsafe...

-WGW2707


User currently offlineSoups From Ghana, joined Jun 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 32928 times:

NIGERIA AIRLINES.......


Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
User currently offlineRA-85154 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2001, 618 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 32894 times:

I would guess North Korea's flag carrier Air Koryo is pretty darn unsafe...

Well, why then? Because they are the airline of a poor country??


User currently offlineDelayedagain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 32879 times:

Soups: do you mean Nigerian registered airlines, or is there actually a Nigerian Airlines? Any experience of flying them (or any Nigerian aircraft)? Cheers

User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6843 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 32813 times:

Airline safety is one of those statistics that is impossible to quantify sensibly because the data is so sparse. It's like rail crashes, one incident has lots of casualties. The same number of people may die through car crashes or hospital mishaps or smoking/drugs/alcohol, but they aren't noticed.

A crash is really the only visible sign. What goes on behind the scenes, sloppy maintenance, wrong parts, fake parts, slack attitudes, culture (what P1 says goes), etc etc, that may not necessarily cause crashes, but lead to greater risk of serious incidents are probably a greater concern.

A number of airlines were recently banned from UK airspace because of such concerns, though I don't think any of the concerned airlines had suffered any crashes.

Andy



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineRussophile From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 32670 times:

I would guess North Korea's flag carrier Air Koryo is pretty darn unsafe...

You'd be guessing wrong. They have some of the most well maintained aircraft on the planet. Anyone can tell me of any Chosonminhang crashes?


User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 32634 times:

Air Koyro has a really nice webpage. The links don't even work!

http://www.air-koryo.com/

AAndrew


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 32621 times:

I suspect the Air Koryo site you found is probably a fake. Somehow I doubt Air Koryo would put IL-76 freighters on its front page header !

User currently offlineCx123 From Australia, joined May 2004, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 32607 times:

I think the following airlines are a NO GO:

CI
SU
(Any African Airlines except SAA)
AA (well The MD80)



User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 32616 times:

CX123 - that's a bit unfair to carriers like KQ, ET, SW, QM who all have pretty good safety records (except for the KQ 310 that went down off West Africa). Even SA had 3 fatal accidents in its career, although fairly well spread apart.

1. The Viscount crash off the Wild Coast, I think in the 50's
2. The 707 "Pretoria" crash at Windhoek, in the early 60's
3. The "Helderberg" 747 combi onboard fire/crash off Mauritius in the 80's.


User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 36
Reply 21, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 32584 times:

Just a little paradox:

Aero Continente's maintenance is subpar.
TAM's maintenance is excellent.

Aero Continente has never lost an aircraft, since founded in 1992.
TAM has lost 5 Fokker 100s in the last 10 years, with a total of 97 fatalities.

Draw your own conclusions.

XV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineStanstedFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 32558 times:

Surely the old Aeroflot pre break up must be in there. After all, how many incidents/accidents do you think were actually reported, especially domestic ones. Shhhhhhhhh!!


View the photos by C Newman on Airliners.net!
User currently offlineCx123 From Australia, joined May 2004, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 32541 times:

I find that Air Safety site is Complete RUBBISH!

Soem airline that crashed so many times (eg. AA) so not be given an A Rating (Especially it is due to pilot ot aircraft failure).

Compare to CX which has a clean record, other than the terrorist bombing.

Someone said QF is the safest airline, but I think it is bullshit. The BKK incident.
The AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA-SYD - Emergency incident

The table cloth/blanket sealing the exit incidents

etc......


User currently offlineIL76 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2004, 2239 posts, RR: 48
Reply 24, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 32503 times:

I flew CI once and I won't fly them again. A very unpleasant experience when it came to flying skills of the pilots. At that time I thought their pilots were pretty crazy. Now that I've heard quite a few other people saying the same, I believe my bad experience was not just caused by a one-off bad day of the pilots.
I don't feel safe on that airline.
They've also had a few crashes in the past decade which already has ruined their safety record...


25 Cx123 : Agree with QantasClub. I think the following airlines are unsafe: CI AI SU
26 RA-85154 : I think the following airlines are a NO GO: SU You think so? Come on...give me a break... The Aeroflot of today has a very good record and is in no wa
27 Cx123 : It is like someone once quote, Born as a bit*h, you die a bitc8. I know now SU have new aircrafts, but unfortunately the history has tarnished the bra
28 Lufthansa : I've got to say ppl pick on Aeroflot unfairly. They had some of the best trained staff around during the soviet days, most where trained by the airfor
29 Cx123 : From Skytrax: Aeroflot - by A Merry 16 April 2004 On Tuesday 6th April we were scheduled to take the non-stop 9.45am Aeroflot flight from Ulan Bator,
30 Soups : i mean nigeria airlines (when it existed) been also on nigeria registred aircraft internal flights and its disgusting, u got some rice on the floor th
31 Hz747300 : I would guess any airline operating Russian turboprops in Angola. I believe there was a time when they had two shot down in one week, and four in a fe
32 Rwylie77 : Aeroflot's reputation for me has always been tarnished ever since the pilot let his son fly the plane who proceeded to dis-engage the autopilot on the
33 Post contains links and images American762 : One picture sums up my thoughts: View Large View MediumPhoto © M.Oertle
34 LVZXV : American762: Could you back up your thoughts with some facts and figures, perhaps? XV
35 JJMNGR : XV, just clarifying something. TAM had 99 fatalities in on accident after taking off CGH airport. Proved to be manufatcure malfunction of the reverse.
36 N757kw : I picked up a saying from a professor in college, "Statistics lie! You can make statistics say anything you want." We all worry about plane crashes be
37 Elcapi1980 : I think that Airtran and Valujet shoudn't be together after all. airtran was created with their aircraft, yes that is truth, but as new corporation (a
38 CXA330300 : CI doesn't have a very good safety record, but G-d forbid SU! Letting children into the cockpit....................
39 Post contains images PHLBOS : So, this just tells you which airlines had accidents in which most of the passengers were killed - of course this is high for UAL and AA who both lost
40 Anthsaun : In order to come up with an easy rating lets take two considerations: Accidents rate: Number of accidents divided by the total of aircrafts ever opera
41 PA110 : CX123, That description of the SU flight from ULN to MOW sounds exactly like my experience from MOW to IKT several years earlier. No safety demo, an u
42 Post contains images Nealcg : Come on people we all know the truth... WN is a major tragedy waiting to happen! ____________ Giggle
43 LVZXV : JJMNGR: Point taken, but that is still 5 serious incidents and 3 hull-losses in 10 years. I never saw pictures but the I read that the F100 that suffe
44 San2snow : This is a tad bit off topic but there use to be a website that would figure out your odds of being in an airplane accident. I was wondering if anybody
45 VIAF : Perhaps China Airlines !
46 Njoizflyin : I have a suggestion: stop inventing reasons to be afraid, its not natural or healthy to purposely try to make yourself and others fear irrationally. Y
47 DIJKKIJK : "So is Air India/Indian Airlines, and PIA. If you've ever been to this part of the world, and you know "how they do things", it's not surprising." So
48 Post contains images LVZXV : San2snow: www.AmIGoingDown.com has gone down itself. I remember that the odds it gave for an internal flight in Peru on a B737 or F28 were something l
49 Ushermittwoch : I would be weary to fly on any SMALL carrier in Nepal, Bolivia or some similar country. As for MAJOR airlines, well, I trust them all enough to give t
50 Post contains images Mrniji : So is Air India/Indian Airlines, and PIA. If you've ever been to this part of the world, and you know "how they do things", it's not surprising. Absol
51 Starlionblue : Point #1: For all of you arguing that "statistically" this and "statistically" that, the sample range is too small. One of the first things taught in
52 Vorticity : You know, statistics aside, Airlines do have to worry about perception of safety. AirTran may be one of the safest airlines out there, but occasionall
53 Aa757first : So, this just tells you which airlines had accidents in which most of the passengers were killed - of course this is high for UAL and AA who both los
54 BeechNut : "Even though I know the Chicago accident was a maintenance procedure failure, the plane still feels less safe." Partially true, but the fact is that t
55 Post contains links and images Russophile : I suspect the Air Koryo site you found is probably a fake. Somehow I doubt Air Koryo would put IL-76 freighters on its front page header ! It is offic
56 Starlionblue : You know, statistics aside, Airlines do have to worry about perception of safety. Too true. As you point out, most of the media is much more intereste
57 UA777222 : You can't say one airline is safer or not than eachother. In another locked post they started to compare AA to SQ, well SQ has had 2 incidents in clos
58 GoAibusGo : No airline in the world is unsafe. At least in my opinion. I see that you can only give credit to airlines that are safe. Airlines that have been here
59 Post contains images Fokker50 : ...No comments..... cheers, Fokker50[Edited 2004-07-02 21:11:58]
60 Bredman1 : How about Garuda?? They have had many accidents over the years.
61 LVZXV : There is something terribly unfortunate about every accident, and that is the ensuing reputation. In most cases, that combination of aircraft and airl
62 WhiteHatter : If Aeroflot was a dangerous and unreliable operator, then ILFC, Skyteam and Airbus wouldn't be doing business with them. End of story. The people in a
63 Thrust : THis is the most ridiculous topic I've ever come across. There is no absolute way to determine the most "unsafe" airline...unless you refer back to Pa
64 Starlionblue : You don't even need statistics, it makes sense, stick more birds in the air and you'll probably have more crash than the guy operating 3 a/c. Don't lo
65 Russophile : If Aeroflot was a dangerous and unreliable operator, then ILFC, Skyteam and Airbus wouldn't be doing business with them. If Aeroflot was a dangerous a
66 ANstar : LVZXV: I used to love that website... do you know any others like it? I'm also a bit annoyed about some comments on Aeroflot. (Though I havent flown d
67 PIA777 : Hello, I think PIA is very safe. They have very good security. Unlike American carriers, there security starts outside of the airport and you are cons
68 Starlionblue : El-Al are very safe security wise as well. But you really have to separate the issues: - Aeronautical considerations like maintenance, airframe, engin
69 JJMNGR : XV and AA757firt, One thing I can guarantee you...there are accidents and incidents all of the time with all airlines. In particular TAM´s case, ev
70 LVZXV : JJMNGR: It's not TAM it's the FOKKERS! The media are as hush-hush about RG as they are about JJ's A320s or G3's B737s. No one's out to get TAM, least
71 JJMNGR : Some of them yes!!! Already gone. TAm had 50 of them and now has 30. They will fly until 2005. It is a horse to make money. TAM flies to some destinat
72 Cgagn : I believe read on A.Net that China Airlines have crashed every type they have ever operated. Sums it up for me!
73 Qantasclub : RE: So is Air India/Indian Airlines, and PIA. If you've ever been to this part of the world, and you know "how they do things", it's not surprising. A
74 Midway2airtran : Did anyone mention Great Lakes Aviation? Check out their records. Now that's scary!
75 N754pr : I have my own system..... that rules out major carriers like CI, KE and SQ.
76 Sevenair : Korean air-they lost two 747s that I know of, and the rest
77 Cx123 : Air India - by A Geetha 8 August 2003 I traveled Newark-to Hyderabad back to JFK. On the Newark to Mumbai flight (via Paris) two of the toilets in my
78 Soups : AEROFLOT! but now think its getting better with the new western a/c
79 Post contains images Sevenair : agh! leave poor Aeroflot alone its not had a fatal crash in ten years, and since the 'devolution' of SU the SU of today is a totally differnt company
80 Post contains links and images BR715-A1-30 : View Large View MediumPhoto © M.Oertle Well, I gotta say, this is a very nice livery.. Better than all the freakin' EUROWHITE schemes you see tod
81 Aviationwiz : Why doesn't JetBlue show up as having any crashes? I swear they have...
82 5NEOO : i mean nigeria airlines (when it existed) been also on nigeria registred aircraft internal flights and its disgusting, u got some rice on the floor th
83 Jcs17 : In my opinion, it all depends. For example, the only time I regularly get a little bit nervous while flying within the US is on 19-seat commuter plane
84 Afay1 : I think that people start this discussion once a week just to annoy anyone who has ever actually flown often in Asia, CIS, or the sub-continent. It al
85 TACAA320 : "I'd be reluctant to fly on the smaller, more regional South and Central American carriers (example: AeroPeru, LAB)." Jcs17 I respect your right to fl
86 Spacecadet : Wow, my first post in 864 days! It seems to me like there are three camps here... those who say flying in general is safe and no airline is any worse
87 FDXmech : >>>The DC-10 has a really crappy hydraulic system. Period. Sioux City, Paris, Detroit and Chicago all had some involvement to a greater or lesser exte
88 Russophile : As for the Russian airlines, including Aeroflot. Its not that the crew is not well-trained, they really are, its just that the industry isn't very reg
89 Fanofjets : I flew Air India, JFK to LHR and back. The flights were 14 years ago and consititute only two experiences, but I must say that the service was quite g
90 Andrewtang : Personally I will not even consider flying Singapore Airlines , Orient Thai and Korean Airlines.
91 Post contains images Lauda777 : If russian planes are so safe and reliable and easy to repair how come no western airlines fly them? I WOULD fly on anything Australian, European (exc
92 Starlionblue : If russian planes are so safe and reliable and easy to repair how come no western airlines fly them? Perception. A Western carrier is simply better of
93 BA : If russian planes are so safe and reliable and easy to repair how come no western airlines fly them? If you're talking about modern Russian planes, it
94 Post contains images Lauda777 : maybe it's because everybody knows about how Russia is renowned for the manufacture of high quality,reliable,safe aircraft and automobiles. At least y
95 Hz747300 : Perception??? Are you sure? That would certainly explain why Aeroflot chooses western built airliners now--both Airbus and Boeing. I would say that th
96 FDXmech : There was a FLYING magazine feature story on Aeroflot not long ago. Very complimentary. >>>The engineers were working on the Number 1 Lotarev. Whilst
97 BCAL : There is no such thing as "the world's most unsafe airline" and statistics can be fiddled in many ways to give a false picture. For instance from an i
98 Post contains images Russophile : Lauda777, I find it funny that you are trying to compare Russian aircraft to Russian cars. How about we compare American aircraft to the utes manufact
99 Swissgabe : Well, I flew following airlines which could be rated kind of "unsafe": Myanma Airways - F28 Lao Aviation - A24, YN2, YN7 and AT7 China Airlines - 742
100 Cx123 : I think in conclusion I do have to say the following airlines will be on my BAN List SU CI Other Russian Airlines AI Some Middle Eastern Airlines Some
101 Post contains images Tasha : Russophile: "Lauda777, I find it funny that you are trying to compare Russian aircraft to Russian cars. How about we compare American aircraft to the
102 Ezycrew : I think it also depends on the culture and background of the pilots. For example, in China, Korea and in Taiwan, it's natural to have absolute respect
103 LVZXV : Ezycrew: Well cited examples of pilot suicide. But don't forget the Silk Air 737 crash seven years ago in Indonesia. Hierarchy was mostly responsible
104 LVZXV : TACAA320: To support your defence of LAB (who I've flown on seven times), the last fatal crash they suffered was back in 1969, when a terrorist bomb b
105 Post contains links PHLBOS : While they haven't had an accident yet, the below-thread points to a potential disaster waiting to happen. http://www.airliners.net/discussions/genera
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