Delayedagain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 2783 times:
I just called QANTAS, who are adding 3 more flights on the kangaroo route in winter. I wondered if they were going by KL - they're not, they're going over SIN like most others.
BUT:- the res agent told me QF had gained approval for SIX FLIGHTS between LHR and Oz which they were going to route via different far east cities, but BA have stopped them!!! So QF are going to use their LHR slots to fly to MAN!!
Is this true? If so, when do BA get off ? How do they get away with it anyway?
Delayedagain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2505 times:
I didn't know CX had the license: good if they did though. I know lack of slots stopped SQ doing same before.
But my complaint is that QF do have the slots (?? confirm, anybody?) but BA have objected to them using them (either to the Oz destinations, or the Asian destinations or both, I don't know) - so QF are going to use valuable LHR slots to fly to MAN.
I agree 100% with 777ER - they should be allowed to use them wherever they want to.
Gman94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1239 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2473 times:
Can someone clarify me how exactly BA have stopped Qantas starting these routes. BA do not control the slots, they can object all they want but I can't see how they could prevent Qantas from using them. Or is just an attempt to bash British Airways?
Aussie747 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1161 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2270 times:
QF are in the interim using flightline to service Qantas's 2 pairs or existing slots at LHR to fly LHR to MAN (otherwise QF would risk losing its slots from BAA for which it paid AUD48 million dollars)
By the end of the year QF will add 3 x weekly PER-SIN-LHR and 3 weekly SYD-HKG-LHR. From March 2005 QF will be allowed to add another SYD-HKG-LHR service. By that QF will have used one pair of it's two slots available.
It is from there I do not know whether it has approval from UK authorities to add more services, even though it has a slot available to them. Can somebody clarify whether QF can simply add remainming services at any time to use the remaining slot that it has available to them?
Delayedagain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2228 times:
Thanks Aussie747. It clears up some of that rumour.
(Bad news that they use flightline: they used to ops the MAN ZRH for SR and wasn't good at all, decrepit 146's and awful cockney slag crews)
But who is stopping them using these slots to Oz right away? If you sell slots to QF, even the BAA must have a little clue as to which general direction they'll be flying
is it the UK authorities? or the far-eastern ones? I stand by what the QF staff in London said: that all routes UK-Oz had to be run in co-operation with BA and they had put the mockers on it.
but thanx for your info: with QF joing the HKG spoilt for choice of excellent airlines from LON-HKG.
BAxMAN From St. Helena, joined May 2004, 671 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2042 times:
BA and QF have a full co-operation agreement on Oz - UK routes whereby all profits on the route are split 60-40 in QF's favour. So I suppose if BA did not like the idea of QF's planned new routes then they could put a spanner in the works in the same that QF could if the roles were reversed.
As to the specific flights in question, I haven't got a clue.
FlyboyOz From Australia, joined Nov 2000, 1893 posts, RR: 28 Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1929 times:
Well... I heard that Qantas is going to set up a new cabin crew base in LHR and also hire 400 cabin crews in UK. Does it mean that airlines can have more route slots when they set up a new cabin crew base in LHR?
FlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 1965 posts, RR: 3 Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1897 times:
Isn't it the fact the current air service agreement between Australia and the UK only permits a maximum of 28 flights per week between the two countries by each side?
BA currently has 21 (7xLHR-SIN-SYD, 7xLHR-SIN-MEL and 7xLHR-BKK-SYD), while VS has provisional approval for the remainder (7xLHR-HKG-SYD).
QF currently has 21 (7xSYD-BKK-LHR, 7xSYD-SIN-LHR and 7xMEL-SIN-LHR) and will add six more for the winter (3xSYD-HKG-LHR and 3xPER-SIN-LHR), plus a final flight next year (SYD-HKG-SIN).
No more flights are currently permitted. QF had to apply to add the additional frequencies, and was in competition with BackPackers Express who wished to utilise them. Owning slots at LHR does not gurantee the right to operate international service with them. These rights are governed by bilateral agreements. All this has been stated on numerous other threads.
QF hopes, and is pressing, for a revised agreement allowing it to operate additional flights. When it announced SYD-HKG-LHR flights it stated that it would be at least 2006 before these went from four times weekly to daily. Acquiring the slots at LHR was a prudent investment. The value of slots is likely to increase as the international air travel market picks up, and trying to acquire those slots in a year or two would have cost QF a heck of lot more than it paid FlyBe for them. Flying to MAN, is as has been stated, merely QF's way of protecting its interests. The likes of U2 have been making noises about airlines sitting on unused slots at LHR, and was talking about making a complaint to the EU (Who ruled that slots could be unused for a limited period post 9-11, but after that unused slots could not be retained indefinitely).
BA has no influence on QF operating to the UK. As for the QF agent saying QF wanted to operate via KUL, it's been stated in numerous threads that QF did nothing to support its previous operations at KL, nor the shortlived BA operated LHR-KUL-SYD service.