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RUMOUR: Virgin SUN Comeback With 773ER  
User currently offlineIntheknow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9265 times:

I know I do this a lot but I hear many rumours at work and like to pass them to you all for consideration. Here is the latest about 773s.

They will all be based at LGW and will not be branded Virgin Atlantic. Possible names floating around are Virgin Sun!, Virgin Atlantic Holidays, Virgin Atlantic Leisure and Virgin Beaches.

They will be operated by VS and our crew but I guess the rebranding gets round the 4 engines 4 long haul silliness.

Discuss! Remember I am only passing on what I hear so dont shoot the messenger!

ITK

66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMIASkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1347 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9171 times:

Sounds great! the 773 would look great in the VS Scheme(s) whatever the VS name is!


Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9115 times:

That would then free up the LGW based 744s for expasion and replacement of the LHR based A343s.

Makes perfect sense.

Though i doubt that a leisure airline would need the range that an ER version of the 773 would give them - i'm sticking my neck out here, but i'd contend that a Trent powered 773 order would suit them better, with commonality to the A346 powerplant. Cant really see that the GE90-112 has anything too much in common with the CF6. Then again, if they start as GE90 users, then the door is open to buy 772ER, 773, 773ER, 772LR etc as the need may arise, so it could be the more progressive answer in terms of future planning.

I would go as far as saying that the A332/3 would better fit the leisure tag thing, and the Trent powered version would be better, if thats what they want to do. Trent powered A332s and A333s - with A346s for the longer range stuff. I've always thought the 744 to be a little too much plane for the routes the LGW ones do. I'd say that the A330 would be a better option - more flexible, though if they really are always full, as i keep hearing, then high density A333's would be a good idea - i cant imagine the business and upper class yields are that strong to places like Miami and Cuba and the Caribbean Islands - not in comparison with HKG, JFK, LAX etc.

In terms of branding, i can see they are trying to distance themselves from the charter carriers by retention of the VS brand currently. I would say that progressively transferring the 744s to LHR, and using A330 or 777 equipment to these places seems like a good idea - perhaps a new brand to go with it - i think it is a good idea.

I'm writing VS 's credit report and business review at the moment so these are interesting rumours. Much to speculate on, though nothing concrete yet.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9078 times:

Though, as a wider theme, i've been somewhat surprised as to why more charter airlines dont make use of the 773 baseline model. The difference in capacity to the A333 (widely used throughout charter airlines, and her smaller sister, the A332) is such that schedules could be changed to suit. With that much more plane, you wouldnt have to fill it full of 400+ seats like the ANA, some of the EK ones and JAL ones are, and perhaps follow First Choice's lead in giving more legroom, PTVs, and a generally better in-flight experience.

Then again...

I dread to think how many seats Thomas Cook or My Travel would put in a 773. Messy...



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9044 times:

...at least 3-4-3!

Would VS have a minimum 30" pitch and a Premium cabin?


User currently offlineIntheknow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8998 times:

Richardw,

I feel sure there will always be premuim cabins on these a/c. When the LGW 744s are fitted with the Upper Class Suite this winter they will have 14J 54W 379Y config, a big increase in the W cabin due to its popularity from LGW. There are a lot of wealthy folk who fly with us to their holiday destinations and I'm sure they will be catered for on a 777.

We may not see upper though on the 777. I remember when we first got G-VSUN (A343) it was in a "leisure" config for the MAN-MCO service with 28 W and 306Y. Didn't look right having no upper!

I also hope we will have 3-3-3 in Y in order to compete properly with BA on the routes. I believe they have got rid of the 3-4-3 config on the LGW 777s so it would be a huge mistake for us to offer less.

Cheers

ITK


User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8980 times:

Isn't the 733ER just about the most expensive product Boeing makes?
I dont' think it will lend itself well to low cost/non-premium services.
Just a thought.


User currently offlineMIASkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1347 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8975 times:

CHRISBA777ER...
with regards to the VS LHR routes to MIA, those routes are very popular in all 3 class configurations. VS Operates the 744 and 346 on opposite days. LHR-MIA is a very popular route, BA has twice daily 744 service, AA twice daily w/ 772.

I hope VS goes for the 773, even the regular 773 would fit better for leisure routes rather than the 773ER...Seems like a "Waste" of range capabilities if only flying to the tropics (Atlantic/Caribbean)



Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8928 times:

So broadly similar to the layout of the EK 773s then? F18 C42 Y320

EK also use them in C49 Y385 layout - wonder if that would be better or not, given the upper class comments made above by ITK.

The LGW based 744s are F28 C38 Y373. Still a whole lot smaller than those EK 773s.

To place this into perspective - MYTs A332s are C49 Y311, whilst MON put C51 Y323 in theirs. Ouch!

I reckon VS could put F18 C32 Y365 in their 773s for high density LGW type ops. What a beast!



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineIntheknow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8923 times:

Hi Greg

Yeah I think it is a very expensive a/c however by all accounts Boeing are desperate to get our business for these, remember easyJets deal for A319s!

ITK


User currently offlineEg777er From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 1837 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8922 times:

CHRISBA777ER, been to any decent clubs lately?

As a small point, Emirates squeeze 434 pax into their J/Y configured 773s.


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7130 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8920 times:

Considering Virgin have just closed their Virgin Travelstore brand any chance of a leisure only Virgin Sun have gone straight out the window.









The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8885 times:

MIAskies:

"with regards to the VS LHR routes to MIA, those routes are very popular in all 3 class configurations. VS Operates the 744 and 346 on opposite days. LHR-MIA is a very popular route, BA has twice daily 744 service, AA twice daily w/ 772"

- Dont VS fly MIA from LGW as well? Surely then, the premium traffic will be accented towards LHR flights - hence a smaller C&F class on the LGW based equipment?

"I hope VS goes for the 773, even the regular 773 would fit better for leisure routes rather than the 773ER...Seems like a "Waste" of range capabilities if only flying to the tropics (Atlantic/Caribbean)"

- I said that too!  Smile Seriously though, the ER gives MTOW benefits too, though these would only come into play on big cargo routes that dont use all the range, but i cant see that VS has any need for these, or do they?

Whats the range of a 773A anyway? Can it do max MTOW flights LGW-HAV/MEX/CCS/BOG etc? (i know VS dont serve all these, but its a good cover of the Caribbean region). TG and SQ use theirs to BA), Turkey">IST (CAI, ATH etc ???) so it has to have a fair old range on it....



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8852 times:

EG777:

Seriousworld was the last big one. Paul Van Dyk, Eddie Halliwell, Judge Jules, Scott Bond, Matt Hardwick, Simon Patterson. PVD tor it to pieces - i'm still recovering.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineIntheknow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8842 times:

Hi BestWestern

Virgin Holidays are one of the largest long haul tour operators in the world and feed our leisure flights from LGW. Not Travelstores.

Cheers

ITK


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8826 times:

EG777:

"As a small point, Emirates squeeze 434 pax into their J/Y configured 773s"

I said that too!

Why does nobody read my posts?!?!?!?!  Big grin



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineMIASkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1347 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8814 times:

Paul Van Dyke? Judge Jules? are we talking about THE MINISTRY of SOUND or VIRGIN ATLANTIC? hahhahaha come on guys!

Would be a cool idea have a dj spinning on board on those transatlantic night flights...club in the air..how fabulous!

CHRISBA777ER...
VS flew from LGW to MIA some years ago...they switched their OPS to LHR to compete w/ BA and AA. So as of right now MIA has 5 to 6 daily flights in between LHR and MIA.


god is a DJ  Wink/being sarcastic...house music all night long! on a VS773 of course! hahaha



Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32737 posts, RR: 72
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8821 times:

- i cant imagine the business and upper class yields are that strong to places like Miami and Cuba and the Caribbean Islands - not in comparison with HKG, JFK, LAX etc.


British Airways didn't fly the Concorde to Miami for eight years to fly it out empty, nor do they operate one of thier exclusive Terrace lounges (the only one in the US) in Miami four a handful of passengers every day. And there is a reason Virgin's Miami flights now uses a Heathrow slot instead of Gatwick. Premium demand to Miami is extremely high. None of the airlines on MIA-LHR - BA, VS, AA - have trouble filling up premium cabins. There is a lot of O&D (1,250+ a day) and a lot of business and premium leisure travel. Average families of four don't travel to Miami, it is far too expensive (one reason there are only two charter flights a week between Miami and Europe). They go to Orlando. Miami is in the category of high-yielding tourist destinations, like Papette, Cape Town, and Nice. Airlines love them: full planes and high yields.

[Edited 2004-07-02 16:31:40]


a.
User currently offlineVS773ER From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2004, 279 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8790 times:

What useage are these 773's gonna be subjected to in weak not peak seasons. (Rpl A346's for scheduled routes!?)

User currently offlineMIASkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1347 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8765 times:

Maybe they can use it on U.S. routes that might use A346 on certain days like the MIA route that uses A346 on opposite days of the 744. Just an idea...

Would the VS A343 SJU route be part of the VS Leisure routes?



Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8740 times:

I think the term 'desperate' is a bit overstated. Boeing has made a Board resolution to no longer sell aircraft at cost to garner market share. How well this is followed is, of course, subject to argument.

While folks speculate that Airbus and Boeing commonly cut prices in half to get orders---you'll find that most discounts off list prices are in the 10-19% range.

My source is one of the largest national French banks, one of the primary lenders for aircraft financing. It's relativley easy to review the actual price paid for the aircraft alone.

Quite frankly, most of the savings is in spares, crew training cost, etc. that is commonly 'given' to the carrier.



User currently offlineCraigy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 1118 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8630 times:

It would be great to bring back the flying banana brand.

Just imagine a bright yellow 773............

Craig.


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Photo © Snorre - VIP Vienna International Planespotters



User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8596 times:

Are you even try to get new 773ER and what are you plan in the future for more new service anytime soon?

User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7130 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8494 times:

"Virgin Holidays are one of the largest long haul tour operators in the world and feed our leisure flights from LGW. Not Travelstores."

Come off it. One of the largest in the world - nowhere near it. Perhaps one of the largest in the UK. The largest in the world are Kuoni and Miki tours.

Virgin holidays is feeling the same pinch as Virgin travelstores with more and more people booking directly as they are not seen as a premium tour operator.




The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineIntheknow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8467 times:

BestWestern

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ..... oh sorry do continue, fascinating statistics and info but nothing to do with my original post on this thread.  Big grin


25 BestWestern : Its all to do with the original Post - VirginSun needs travel agents to fill the aircraft, just like all other Charter airlines. Yet Virgin are closin
26 CHRISBA777ER : ITK - That was a bit rude to GreatWestern - what he says is correct. No need to be sarcastic.
27 Intheknow : Dear CHRISBA777ER Wind your neck in, did you not see the wink in my reply? Valium anyone? Now thats sarcastic. ITK
28 Post contains images CHRISBA777ER : Sorry mate - tough day. Ive had to trash a greek company's rating - and they were still all pissed in the office from the footie last night. Virgin ar
29 Intheknow : Sh1t, go and have a beer, I am now! Take it easy mate ITK
30 Post contains images MIASkies : A beer?? I wish!!!!!! its only 1254pm in MIAMI right now...and I am sitting in my office overlooking the clear blue skies..sky scrapers and AA jets fl
31 Post contains images BestWestern : InTheKnow ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ..... oh sorry do continue, but nothing to do with my original post on this thread Sorry couldnt resist....
32 Post contains images Airchabum : ITK - Good rumour! You get to hear a lot more than we do in The Orifice! I seem to remember hearing something in the past about re-branding the LGW op
33 Post contains images Miamix707 : "British Airways didn't fly the Concorde to Miami for eight years to fly it out empty" "Miami, it is far too expensive (one reason there are only two
34 MAH4546 : if you count LTU, that would be 3 leisure flights. Eurofly,MyTravel,LTU. Not sure if it's considered a charter flight but the Martinair routes to Cost
35 Worldoftui : I would be amazed if this rumour turns to reality. Vertical integration (travel agent - tour operator - airline - hotel) is so important these days in
36 Crewrest : Will a 773 do a 180 on the R/W at GND/TAB/ANU/UVF then?
37 Roberta : I wish VS would hurry up and decide. When is he order expected?
38 VSXA380X800 : I know this is nothing but a rumour but this sound completely unreal. If this is true that means Virgin Sun will no longer be a low cost airline anym
39 Post contains images Airchabum : VSXA380X800 Virgin Sun isn't a LCC. They used to be a charter airline and were sold off to First Choice in 2001. The name is simply one that has been
40 Roberta : Im still 80% certain they arent even going to get 777's. Only an excellent financial deal would convince them.
41 ConcordeBoy : Which they very well could get... ...would be intresting to see how RR reacts, as they have business potential in either choice, if they play their ca
42 VSXA380X800 : "The name is simply one that has been suggested for the re-branding of the Virgin Atlantic LGW operation which is primarily to leisure destinations" S
43 Airchabum : VSXA380X800 Yes and no! Virgin Sun was a tour operator set up in 1998 (I think) along the lines of Airtours/Thomson/etc, ie it provided inclusive tour
44 WhiteHatter : ...would be intresting to see how RR reacts, as they have business potential in either choice, if they play their cards right. If Virgin did buy the 7
45 ConcordeBoy : If Virgin did buy the 773, I'd put my money on them being GE powered I more than anyone would love to see a 773A actually sporting GE engines... ...bu
46 777236ER : 80% based on what, Roberta? All the evidence VS is going to get 777-300s.
47 Crewrest : I reckon Farnborough too. They are putting together a cabin-crew promotions team. Both 777 & 346 rumours are doing the rounds at the moment.
48 EGFF : What a stunner that would be in Virgin Sun colours .... awesome. Regards, Shaun
49 WhiteHatter : I more than anyone would love to see a 773A actually sporting GE engines... There are a number of reasons why I'd bet on GE. Existing relationship is
50 Roberta : 80% based on what, Roberta? on the small detail they already have a bunch of A346's All the evidence VS is going to get 777-300s. Evidence? All the ru
51 Gigneil : All the evidence VS is going to get 777-300s. There is actually absolutely positively zero evidence to support the claim of an upcoming 773 order. I w
52 Post contains images Leezyjet : I have certianly heard the rumours that the 777 of various sorts is highly favorable within VS. The main reason for choosing it over the A340 series i
53 Post contains links WhiteHatter : The odds are against you, friend. The GE90 is not a certified engine choice on the A market 777-300. It is on the 773ER. I would think that would be t
54 Vsmike : It's true. Ops begin 05Jul2004 using Il-64s... giggle... InTheKnow, I know who you are. We must compare notes. See you next time you're in OTown. gobb
55 DfwRevolution : Evidence? All the rumors are going for the 777-300, there is no evidence yet. Please someone tell me where this is coming from... it's killing me! I j
56 Post contains images Northwest717 : DfwRevolution, don't worry, I have been watching this thread since day 1 and I don't have a f*ckin clue what is going on! They are going to order it,
57 Intheknow : VSMike, Coming to MCO on the 015 this Thursday the 8th! See you there? ITK
58 Ruscoe : I would not think the 777 has an ice-creams hope in hell except that I bet a 7E7 offer is part of the offering! Would keep RR interested also. Ruscoe
59 Post contains links and images Voodoo : Leezyjet wrote: The main reason for choosing it over the A340 series is the fact that the 777 can turn itself round on the runways in the Carribbean,
60 Airchabum : Voodoo There is a long list of airfields without parallel taxyways which the 346 is not allowed to go to (except in the case of a dire emergency) beca
61 Voodoo : Occasionally we have problems with the 744 if there is a defect with the Centre Gear Steering which means that they can't go to certain airfields (a n
62 Gigneil : It is on the 773ER. I would think that would be the variant they would go for, as it adds in flexibility and better weight lifting characteristics. Li
63 WhiteHatter : Like I said earlier, the chances of Virgin buying Boeing's most expensive and advanced aircraft and relegating it to charter work are so low they can'
64 VS4ever : Did I miss something here? When did anyone say that LGW was charter?, the aircraft may be filled by Package Holiday makers, but I have been of the opi
65 WhiteHatter : It's not just holidaymakers either. Returning family tend to bring huge amounts of extra baggage (most of which they try and blag their way on board w
66 Post contains links Crewrest : Try this then from another thread, looks like it might be A340s after all. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2001982456_farnsal
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