Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Odd Approach At LGA  
User currently offlinePlaneviewnyc From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 1 month 19 hours ago) and read 2180 times:

Aboard the LIRR this evening around 7:10, passing through Woodside, noticed a Song 757 moving from south to north, descending rapidly with its gear down, apparently heading for Runway 04. At about 1,000 feet, she leveled off, put the gear up, and climbed out. Surprised that they would be using 04 today, I dialed up the ATIS from my cell phone. It said Expressway Visual 31 was in use, and 22 was the active. Wind was 300 at 8, in a thunderstorm.

I guess it's obvious the 757 did a go around, but my question is why would she be approaching that runway when it wasn't in service, which had traffic departing head on?

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSkiordie From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 month 18 hours ago) and read 2130 times:

Baseball game might of had to do with a change.

Yes Mets!


User currently offlineUA747SP From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 31 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 month 16 hours ago) and read 2071 times:

Planeview-

The Expressway Visual 31 does look like an approach to 04, in fact, following the LOC for 04 until reaching the DIALS intersection, then turning to follow the LIE (hence, Expressway Visual) then curving around Flushing Meadow Park and Flushing Bay to land on 31. According to the current approach plates, at DIALS, the a/c approaching is supposed to be at or above 2500. Perhaps the plane was a bit too low at this point forcing the go-around that you saw from the LIRR.

The approach does seem a bit odd to me (perhaps, due to noise abatement with all the residential housing in Flushing, Murray Hill, and Bayside??) , but that's the way they execute it.

If you're an AOPA member: http://download.aopa.org/iap/20040610/NE-2/lga_expressway_visual_rwy_31.pdf.


User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 month 9 hours ago) and read 2024 times:

Skiordie:

Having had season tickets for the Mets back in the mid 80's ('86 series, game 6....I was there, and 18 years later I still dont believe it), I can assure you that ATC doesnt change their patterns because of Mets games. I can't count the number of times I had to shout at the person sitting next to me because of planes departing r/w 13 and flying right over Shea. AND....at other times watching aircraft banked to the left and then straigtening out 1/2 mile from the r/w 31.

However, once the US open starts (August?), it will be a different story. I seem to recall a story from years back where the winds favored a r/w 13 departure operation (flying over Shea and the tennis courts), but ATC had them departing off of 4. Reportedly some ATC supervisor did this in exchange for free tickets being offered by the tennis officials.


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6798 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 month 2 hours ago) and read 1928 times:

I guess they don't go out of their way for regular-season games, but the only time I ever saw runway 22 departures was during a Mets playoff game some years ago.

If the Song 757 passed over the Woodside LIRR station then it was approaching runway 4, no question. The Expressway Visual turns well before that.


User currently offlineSmcmac32msn From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 month 2 hours ago) and read 1914 times:

Wouldn't post-9/11 security measures be kept up in NYC as to aircraft within vicinity of a large mass of people? (ex: baseball games, football games, downtown Manhattan) Wether they are regular season or not? A Mets v. Yankees game is always going to bring a full-house.

Or am I misunderstanding some of these rules?



Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
User currently offlineLtbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13042 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 month 1 hour ago) and read 1895 times:

In your reference to the change in patterns for LGA and the US Open Tennis Tournment, this started to occur when Dinkins was mayor of the city of New York (he was mayor in the early to mid-90's between Koch and Gullinai and the first African-American to be NYC Mayor). Dinkins was a big tennis fan and wanted to help make the US Open to be as successful as possible, and thus wanted the noise from the aircraft away from the stadium area so as to limit the distractions to the players and the fans watching the matches. So he asked the Port Authority and air traffic control in the area to change the flight paths in/out of LGA during the tournments. Post 9-11 for obious security reasons, there have been significant changes in flight patterns in all of the NYC area, including over and near stadiums when events occuring and over lower and middle Manhattan island all of the time, unless specific permission asked. From time to time aircraft, especially those transporting US troops, have asked to fly over or close to Manhattan, especially over/near the area of the WTC site. The odd approach descirbed in the start of this thread suggests that the weather and possible errors led to a go around.

User currently offlineSmcmac32msn From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 month 1 hour ago) and read 1892 times:

Ltbewr - Alright. Thanks for the clarification on that. I wish I could spot at a place like LGA, JFK, or EWR. They seem like fun places.


Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
User currently offlineBlackbird1331 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1893 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 month 1 hour ago) and read 1872 times:

Planeviewnyc: the problem began when the she was actually a he. Then he tried to land on a runway where no males are allowed. Well, you know how those controllers can be.


Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6798 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 month ago) and read 1847 times:

"Post 9-11 for obious security reasons, there have been significant changes in flight patterns in all of the NYC area, including over and near stadiums when events occuring and over lower and middle Manhattan island all of the time, unless specific permission asked."

Airliners into LGA still go daily up the Hudson at 4000 feet, and arrivals from the north still turn southwest-to-southeast over midtown Manhattan at 3000-4000 ft, tho maybe not daily.

Do LGA runway 13 departures not make the usual turn to a 170 heading when Shea Stadium is active?

What other "significant changes" have there been?


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6798 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1808 times:

Mets were scheduled to play the Yankees at Shea today (3 July) at 1310; if you check http://www4.passur.com/lga.html for say 1500 you'll see the usual Whitestone climb off runway 13.

User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5632 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1698 times:

Aren't flights restricted over all MLB/NFL/NCAA DI/NASCAR stadiums or tracks?


"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineBigphilnyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 4076 posts, RR: 54
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1685 times:

At 7:10 they switched from EV31 to LDA 22, so that Song was told he change course and climb for 22 approach.

There were landings on 13, 22 and 31 this evening.

-Phil



Phil Derner Jr.
User currently offlinePlaneviewnyc From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1647 times:

Excellent info, Phil. That must suck to be next in line to land and then have to go around and wait. The plane still seemed like it was too low and too far west for EV31. The LIE is about a mile south of the LIRR tracks in Woodside, meaning the plane should have turned right about a mile before flying over me. Instead, it continued descending LGA at least a 1/2 mile north of the LIRR tracks before raising the gear and climbing.

I guess we'll never know.


User currently offlineBigphilnyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 4076 posts, RR: 54
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1647 times:

A more detailed response:

LGA was switching back and forth today form EV31 landing to 13 departures, so that coul dbe en explanation why you saw what you saw, becuase they had just switched and the 757 had to change course accordingly.

The Whietstone As for hte US Open, that week in August, any Rwy 13 departures use the Flushing Climb, which menas that they jsut depart straight out instead of making the turn to heading 180 like on the Maspeth, Whitestone and Coney climbs.

Such avoidances are not made for Mets games, because the Mets don't have the money-backed noise abatement lobby that the US Open does, bottom line. Dinkins started that crap and it needs to end, I think.

In fact, as I've posted i the past, I've seen a "new" unwritten departure route for 13, where the planes jsut bank left right away and keep on climbing, waht I call the "College Point Climb". This inconveniences people in the town of College Point (where I live) fo the sake of tourists watching tennis. Nice, huh?

-Phil



Phil Derner Jr.
User currently offlineUAFan17 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1635 times:

Which runway is partially on water, because most of the time when I fly into LGA, we land on that runway.

User currently offlineBigphilnyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 4076 posts, RR: 54
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1624 times:

Every runway except for Rwy 4 has water at the beginning of it, so your description isn't enough.

-Phil



Phil Derner Jr.
User currently offlineUAFan17 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1616 times:

Sry I forgot what LGA fully looks like becuase i usually fly there at night but it is the runway facing manhattan Island I think.

User currently offlineJfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3392 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1552 times:

Oh my God!
I was in College Point Queens at the same time and saw a very weird approach by a Song 757 (probably the one you speak of). Very, Very weird.
There was a Met game going on (they were playing the Yankees I believe) but that had nothing to do with it. LGA was landing on 31 up until that point when I saw the lime green 757 come from the north. It was over the Hellgate/Long Island Sound area and was approaching the Whitestone Bridge with the gear down. (It was the total opposite of the Whitestone Climb) He came over Whitestone, flew down the Whitestone Expressway to the Flushing area and hung a right over Shea Stadium.
I can rememeber it vividly because my cousins were with me and they were curious as to why I was looking up in amazement. I was looking up because I lived in Whitestone for 22 years and I never, ever saw that flight path before.

PJ


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Connecting At LGA Between Central Terminal C&D posted Thu Nov 9 2006 01:16:58 by RJpieces
Connecting At LGA Between Central Terminal C&D posted Thu Nov 9 2006 01:16:58 by RJpieces
Missed Approach At DXB. Lufthansa 777 posted Wed Oct 18 2006 11:29:11 by Qslinger
Missed Approach At DXB. Lufthansa 777 posted Wed Oct 18 2006 11:29:11 by Qslinger
What The Hell Is Going On At LGA? posted Fri Sep 8 2006 16:08:33 by JFKLGANYC
What The Hell Is Going On At LGA? posted Fri Sep 8 2006 16:08:33 by JFKLGANYC
Condi Rice's Plane At LGA Today? posted Fri Jul 21 2006 21:02:37 by RJpieces
Condi Rice's Plane At LGA Today? posted Fri Jul 21 2006 21:02:37 by RJpieces
Connecting At LGA Between Central Terminal C&D posted Thu Nov 9 2006 01:16:58 by RJpieces
Missed Approach At DXB. Lufthansa 777 posted Wed Oct 18 2006 11:29:11 by Qslinger
What The Hell Is Going On At LGA? posted Fri Sep 8 2006 16:08:33 by JFKLGANYC
Condi Rice's Plane At LGA Today? posted Fri Jul 21 2006 21:02:37 by RJpieces
Power Out At LGA Marine Air Term? posted Tue Jul 18 2006 15:04:32 by Wjcandee
Power Out At LGA Marine Air Term? posted Tue Jul 18 2006 15:04:32 by Wjcandee
Power Out At LGA Marine Air Term? posted Tue Jul 18 2006 15:04:32 by Wjcandee
Odd Sighting At BUF- ATA 752 posted Mon Jul 10 2006 02:34:17 by Skoker
Odd Sighting At BUF- ATA 752 posted Mon Jul 10 2006 02:34:17 by Skoker
Unusual Approach At DCA Today posted Fri Apr 7 2006 03:04:37 by AviationAddict
Odd Sighting At BUF- ATA 752 posted Mon Jul 10 2006 02:34:17 by Skoker
Unusual Approach At DCA Today posted Fri Apr 7 2006 03:04:37 by AviationAddict
Unusual Approach At DCA Today posted Fri Apr 7 2006 03:04:37 by AviationAddict
AA A300 At LGA; Gate D10 Right Now posted Fri Mar 31 2006 17:18:43 by JFKLGANYC
AA A300 At LGA; Gate D10 Right Now posted Fri Mar 31 2006 17:18:43 by JFKLGANYC
AA A300 At LGA; Gate D10 Right Now posted Fri Mar 31 2006 17:18:43 by JFKLGANYC
Delta Terminal At LGA Evacuated? posted Fri Mar 10 2006 22:04:54 by Delta fly boy
Delta Terminal At LGA Evacuated? posted Fri Mar 10 2006 22:04:54 by Delta fly boy
Delta Terminal At LGA Evacuated? posted Fri Mar 10 2006 22:04:54 by Delta fly boy
Old Photos Of Eastern Terminal At LGA posted Mon Feb 6 2006 20:01:23 by RJpieces
Old Photos Of Eastern Terminal At LGA posted Mon Feb 6 2006 20:01:23 by RJpieces
Old Photos Of Eastern Terminal At LGA posted Mon Feb 6 2006 20:01:23 by RJpieces