Capital146 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2125 posts, RR: 49 Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7204 times:
There was a thread a couple of months ago by a member here (think it may have been Aviopic) who seemed to be heavily involved in the Rekkof project. It was stated that firm orders will be announced at Farnborough, which commences in a couple of weeks time. From what I understand, production would be for an updated version of the Fokker 70 whilst an updated Fokker 100 would be on hold for a while.
Lets see what happens. Would be great to have this aircraft in production again.
If Aviopic sees this thread then I am sure they will be able to provide further details.
Aviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 46 Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7168 times:
haha nice one Capital146
There is not much to add at this moment other then that from my point of view everything is in place and I really can't see why it should not happen at this stage.
Although I am not "heavily involved" with Rekkof I do have ehhh let's say a reliable source.
Indeed production will start with the F70 but if there are customers for F100's they also will be produced however this is not very likely as long as there are cheap ones for sale in my view.
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
Antares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 41 Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7111 times:
I was told at a regional airlines briefing in Asia about three or four months ago that Rekkof was a cruel hoax, a fantasy web site that has suckered far too many people and falsely misrepresents itself as having received undertakings or expressions of interest from RR and LH.
Tell me it isn't so, that a workforce of 320 people are about to produce all these wonderful jets, and that the carriers are queuing up dying to shower it with their owners money.
Please produce evidence of a Rekkof booking of a stand at Farnborough. Please produce a chief pilot and a project engineer and legal company registration papers.
Aviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 46 Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7063 times:
Just let them think what ever they want Antares.
As far as I know there won't be a stand at Farnborough but then again you don't need a stand for a press conference.
The work force of around 320 is quite accurate but I don't know about any queuing just that there are enough firm orders.
The company is registered in Lelystad, no need for a chief pilot at this stage as production should start in 2005 and first delivery in 2006.
Also Rekkof does not need a project engineer as Fokker(Stork) is the type certificate holder and that won't change.
The Fokker engineering department as well as the aircraft maintenance, component maintenance and material department never stopped working and are in full swing for things to come.
Even the chief designer is still there.
Guess we just need a little more patience.
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
Antares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 41 Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7047 times:
Aviopic. It's a hoax. And it could be a costly one because at least one of the parties mentioned by Rekkof as expressing interest is likely to litigate if they don't retract.
Neither Rolls Royce nor Lufthansa have expressed any interest in this fantasy project whatsoever. Statements that they are could be seen as false and misleading, and could cause both companies to be interrogated by their home stock exchanges as to why the market hasn't been fully informed, since we are talking about the spending of shareholder money.
What do you mean anyone can call as press conference at Farnborough? Like hell they can. You have to get permission, and pay for a venue or you get ejected into the countryside.
Get over it. The Fokkers were fine jets. The decision to shut up shop was tragic, premature and unnecessary. But it happened. The design is now fossilised, and uncompetitive with the EMB range.
BuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2778 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 6391 times:
I just checked the website of the Dutch Chamber of Commerce http://www.kvk.nl and Rekkof has been issuing annual reports since 1994. They also have a main office (in Mijdrecht) and a branche office. You have to pay to obtain the documents. I might give it a try. I just wondered, they already exist ten years. So if they're not building planes, then what on earth are they doing???
LifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1880 posts, RR: 8 Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6062 times:
German newspaper Handelsblatt reports today : "Flugzeugbauer Fokker plant Comeback".
As I wrote earlier Rekkof is not a hoax and is being planned very carefully. The owner of Rekkof is Jaap Rosen Jacobsen, which is a big investor in all kinds of businesses, including owning VLM Airlines.
Jacobsen intended to invest in a new Fokker right after the demise, but the curators and Stork prevented that. At the inventory-auction, Jacobsen bought almost all of the production tools for the Jetline.
From 1998 Rekkof tried to restart the line, but didn't got any help from Stork, as they are the type-rating holder. This status quo durated for a while, but was solved by mediation from the government which is silently backing up the project with this sort of services.
Last year almost all the suppliers signed a LOI to participate in the project. Suppliers included Honeywell and Rolls-Royce.
Also last year, the active marketing of the product was started by Ruud Kleinendorst and as we all have read here, airlines like Lufthansa, SAS and Air France-KLM were said to be interested.
Still, despite having contacts in Rekkof, I have my fingers crossed on what's going to happen.
Fokker50 From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 359 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5918 times:
Well, I know some orders are from LH, Austrian, SAS and others..., their purpose is to be the number 1 in the regional market with their Rekkof 70 and Rekkof 100, and in a future, revitalize the project of Fokker, the Fokker 130, or Rekkof 130.
Antares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 41 Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5876 times:
There are no corporate filings by any listed airlines or engine or component supplier informing any stock exchange that they have entered into any sort of arrangement with the perpetrators of the Rekkof fantasy.
If anyone has any official documentation of any interest whatsoever by RR or an airline would they please post them or the links to them.
Aviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 46 Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5808 times:
In yesterdays Dutch paper(Spits) also a big article about Rekkof.
Stating that assembly is planned to start in the coming 3 months and 50 firm orders from 2 airliners are secured(KLM, AirFrance in my view).
As i have said all the time nothing is final yet but the final word will come out pretty soon.
Also i said from the beginning that numerous little things are pointing in one direction only which is: it will go on !(sorry can't go into that)
It should be clear that Rekkof can't do this on there own, they need other companies as well for instances Fokker Services(Stork) as type certificate holder and to me it looks that everything is made ready the last couple of months to have a go as soon as the word comes out.
Dear Antares i don't think the decision whether to go on or not will be influenced because you think it is a fantasy.
We are in the middle of it and you are not !
Of course there are no official documents as there is nothing official yet but i am quite sure we will talk again in a couple of months.
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
Antares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 41 Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5778 times:
I've reviewed the claims Rekkof has made and they are without any substance whatsoever. They do however misrepresent the intentions of other parties, which is rather risky in business, especially the website last time I looked.
I'd be especially careful about vague claims about what airlines have indictated or inferred they will order.They do have legal reporting obligations which if they were in any way serious they would have filed with the appropriate authorities. If you keep trying to draw in the names of certain airlines and engine makers without supporting them with letters of intent or memorandums of understanding you are going to end up with a cease and desist order from a court.
Antares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 41 Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5724 times:
No, we will be watching you in court.
When you falsely imply something on behalf of another party they may come after you on a variety of grounds, or they may ignore you. If I was in your clogs I'd prefer the latter course of action so that you can just dream your life away while the world moves on with people posting dream colour schemes and conjuring up orders here and there. Sad really.
But friendly warning, it can get ugly if your dream customers or suppliers decide to put an end to the nonsense.
Aviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 46 Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5707 times:
While you are "Jwentinging" (just found myself a new Dutch word )we start building if you don't mind.
I sure hope you have fun doing your thing but i can assure you we will have fun doing our thing ! Which is building Fokkers.
Please read more careful as i have said: I am only reflecting on what is in the paper already, not making up anything and i am not dreaming of any anything.
Scorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 4934 posts, RR: 47 Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5679 times:
I'll give it a shot.
Serious plans to build Fokkers
The old plans to ence again build Fokker planes have been revitalised. The company which should do it, Rekkof aircraft, finished preparations last month, and is now in final talks with investors and other parties. "The idea is to start constuction in Lelystad this quarter", says Commercial Director R. Kleinendorst in german paper HandelsBlatt.
The initiative for the project comes from businessman J.Rosen Jacobsen. He already had plans in 1998 to let Fokker, which folded in 1996, rise back up from its ashes. The decision to start production was at that point moved by a year, and not much has been heard of it since. Jacobsen confirmed to ANP that there are serious talks again, but stressed that there is still a lot of uncertainty. "It's a puzzle. Some of the many involved parties still need to come to a conclusion".
The plans deal with the Fokker 70 and possible later the related Fokker 100. According to Jacobsen, airlines indicated about a year ago that there is at this point no suitable aircraft in this category for regional transport. "Specialists further believe that the Fokker 70 is still state of the art today."
To be able to start production, Rekkof has to be able to attract at least 150 million Euros worth of investments, as well as orders for at least 50 planes.
The last part has been fulfilled, says Kleinendorst, by agreements with 2 airlines, which he declines to name. But according to jacobsen, who was unaware of the interview with Kleinendorst, his commercial director is slightly ahead of things. There are no agreements yet, but there are talks with more than 2 airlines.
JCS From Netherlands, joined Jun 2004, 208 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5596 times:
You seem to be really sure this subject is a 'hoax'. I would really like to give you compliments with using this internet-complaint.
["Fantasy project"] I would like your story more if you could use less sarcasm. You know, many people are honestly working on this project.
You say Rolls Royce's shareholders should know this. But Rolls Royce's business in the Fokker projects is very small. Rolls Royce should only tell it when compliance says. When there is no need to make rumor, they will keep silence, and that's exactly what shareholders like.
You might see the difference with Stork. Stork is owner of former Fokker activities and its trademark. Stork-Fokker makes for example the A380's glare and many other specialized equipment and project for aviation and space-technology. Stork is also a shareholders company. However their business with the Fokker project is that large they need to say anything to their (Dutch) shareholders. So: see below!
I only translate the main issues:
"Stork says there will be soon a 'go' or 'no go' for continuing production of new Fokker a/c. Rekkof is trying since 1996 to re-open production. Stork, which is owner of all still existing SBU's of Fokker, is happy with the developments, since they take care for the still existing Fokker a/cs. Because of decreasing number of Fokkers operated, business could sincerely use some help, says the PR-man of Stork. "Since we are owners of the Fokker-designs, we will give contracts for this." So, this is a serious project with many contractors.
The German newspaper 'Handelsblatt' started speculations Thursday-morning. The German newspaper says the needed capital of EUR150.000.000,-- is almost settled and production of F70s and F100s will start soon at Lelystad - Netherlands. The GERMAN NEWSPAPER thinks production will start within 3 months.
Rekkof (CEO J. Rosen Jacobson) says this is quiet optimistic and Rekkof still needs to deal with uncertainties.
The Rekkof question (BuyantUkhaa).
I am in function to look into KvK. Rekkof Aircraf N.V. was registrated with its current name on 10/10/1997. It is a serious company with a (start)capital of EUR 9.347.872,45. It owns a subsidiary: Rekkof Restart N.V., which was founded on March 2, 1999.
You see, it is not a fantasy or hoax, just a long-term project which gets serious now. But still uncertain.
Aviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 46 Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5528 times:
Thanks for the support JCS as a Fokker Services employee i can not go into the details myself because then indeed i might find myself in court someday.
Maybe some people will now understand that it's not me believing in fairy tales.
In my view those ideas are coming from another company that doesn't want the competition and there for want people to believe Rekkof is a hoax.
If i understand Antares correctly he is an EMB employee or something in which case it is clear why he wants the world to believe Rekkof is a fantasy.
No hard feelings though.
Let's wait and see what will happen...... as i stated all the time right from the beginning.
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
Antares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 41 Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5513 times:
Many thanks for the translations.
I'm not an Embraer employee. I'm a 74 year old semi retired financial services advisor who continues to travel a lot. Until Qantas was privatised in Australia I never paid any serious attention to airlines as investments, but I had spent many years sizing up the shipping, trucking, railroading and general logistics side of the transport sector where in general terms serious value can be added to investment portfolios. And I know my way around the language of business. The body language of Rekkof is of an enterprise that is closer to being dead than I am.
However it is ridiculous to claim there is no alternative to the F70 (which I flew in as a KLM City bopper some years ago. Neat jet, but too small inside.)
The EMB range is state of the art, although over priced and in need of a capital injection to expand production, because if they don't there is a faint chance the Canadian government will bail out Bombardier and they will build something new.
25 Aviopic: I am sure you have more knowledge about the financial world then i but it's also clear that i have more knowledge about the technical issues. Can't re
26 Alessandro: In my point of view, if Rekkof are going to be successful, they need to ship the tools to China and set up production there. I don´t think it was any
27 Aviopic: I did not say there were any problems with the E170 Alessandro just that it lacks some items present on a F70. Fokker bankruptcy had nothing to do wit
28 Alessandro: Sorry, so why did Fokker go bankrupt, if the manufacturing cost was OK? SAAB got plenty of 340s and 2000 they want to sell or lease so I don´t think
29 LifelinerOne: Fokker went belly-up due to very high development costs (developing the Fokker 50 and 100 almost at the same time). Combine this with complete mismana
30 Aviopic: Alessandro in my previous post i already explained why Fokker went bankrupt and Lifeliners post is good addition to that. Whether you have to feed 160
31 A300: A good candidate for the F100 is Iran Air. They bought six of them new in the early 1990s. One was lost during a forced landing near IFN. Due to the i
32 HlywdCatft: As much as I would love to see more Fokker 70s and 100s, its pointless to even think of building them. Boeing is barely selling its 717 and Airbus can
33 Alessandro: Volvo makes parts to airplane engines. No, I don´t think SAAB will get into the regional aircraft biz again. They´re sub-contractor to A380 and sell
34 Aviopic: To A300: First my question to Alessandro was who might be the partner in Sweden not who a possible customer might be. The embargo is also in place for