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User currently offlineFlairport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1958 times:

For many sports teams, their home city is not their airlines hub. So, they have to get a plane up to their city, to their new city, and back to the planes base. My question is "if the airline has a route to this city, would they use this flight as an extra segment? They have the crew and they're using the fuel!

a good example: the Pittsburgh Pirates charter: DL 9824 ATL-PIT-FLL-ATL
ATL-PIT is empty
FLL-ATL is empty

I know they could fill another FLL-ATL, so do they sell extra seats or fly it up empty? The timing is reasonable with the plane leaving ATL-PIT at 2:23pm and leaving FLL-ATL at 9:37pm.

Another example: Tampa Bay Devil Rays...DL 9794 ATL-FLL-BWI-ATL
left ATL at 3:33pm and is leaving BWI at 11pm

Also, in an unrealted note, they would have 1 extra flight each way FLL-ATL-FLL!

[Edited 2004-07-05 03:58:57]

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1931 times:

Yes, this is one of charter flight to FLL sometimes and will not have an empty flight.

User currently offlineEta unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (11 years 11 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1907 times:

When we did charter flights, the "dead sectors" from home base to the start/end point were factored into the charter cost. Therefore, as the client is paying the cost, it's difficult to justify to then sell those sectors to the public.

User currently offlineFlairport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 11 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1891 times:

Ok...ETA, here is a question...

lets say that a passenger is trying to get from point A to point B on short notice...doesn't mind paying the $1000 fare, but the flight is full. It just so happens that there are 30 others in the same situation and the Point B Bees are going to a game in Point C. Would they put those 31 passengers are point A-Point B and go for the extra profit. Also, what about if all the flights end up oversold and thy have 30-50 people without seats all day....Finnaly, if a flight gets cancelled due to weather and that plane is getting up there one way or another. Could those go as exceptions or, since the client is paying the cost, there is no way to get those passengers on?

User currently offlineDl757md From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1564 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (11 years 11 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1881 times:

Often times charters will originate and terminate at airports not served by the airline. In this case the aircraft would be readied for the charter(food and supplies loaded) at a city serviced by that airline (usually a hub) and repositioned to pick up the team. After dropping off the team it is again repositioned to the nearest city (usually a hub) the airline services and cleaned.

They don't often use these reposition flights in place of regular flights unless there is a scheduling need ie. broken equipment or stranded pax necessitating extra capacity.

As Eta unknown has said already the cost of these repositioning flights is factored into the charter fee.


They would use the empty equipment as I've said in the scenarios you mentioned. But there wouldn't be a need to fly them on regularly scheduled flights as the aircraft for those flights are already scheduled to do so.

[Edited 2004-07-05 04:32:01]

[Edited 2004-07-05 04:37:51]

757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
User currently offlineOrdpark From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 612 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (11 years 11 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1800 times:
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When someone chtrs an airplane...ESPECIALLY a sports team, you don't mess with the positioning ferry flt.....too many things could go wrong.

If the plane isn't where it's supposed to be, clean, and with fresh galleys on board and ready to go, you have to answer to the travelling secretary,

User currently offlineGeoffm From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (11 years 11 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1630 times:

I once enquired (for fun) how much it would cost to charter a small jet, like a BAe146 from London to the south of France. KLM offered the service and their website clearly stated the fact that repositioning (AMS-LHR and France-AMS) is included in the cost of the charter.

Geoff M.

User currently offlineAirconti From Germany, joined Jun 2004, 148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (11 years 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1535 times:

Used to work for one of the bigger charterers, i.e. touroperators - and at that time, upon trying to make addl. Yield, we were told from airline staff - no go - due to insurance reasons....Even ourselves as non-rev pax had no chance to get on board during positioning flights or charter-beginnings or endings...

User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 19436 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (11 years 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1492 times:

Yes, the reposition flights are often sold if there is enough lead time, enough ground time, and the departure times don't conflict with another departure on the same route. Most, if not all, carriers that operate charter flights will sell some of the reposition flights for passengers, cargo, or mail.

E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLMML 14/32 From Malta, joined Jan 2001, 2566 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (11 years 11 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1464 times:

Over the past week we did several (like 4 or 5 flights in one day) to ferry Greek soccer fans over to Portugal for their final couple of games in the Euro 2004 tournament. I did one of those flights and routing was as follows (POS - positioning. LIVE - full of pax):


These were day trips so we flew out early in the morning. Then the the reverse later the following night after the game. There was another variation to this rotation:


I can imagine that the positioning sectors were factored into the costing.

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