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Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX  
User currently offlineQantaspower From Australia, joined Aug 2002, 516 posts, RR: 7
Posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 14160 times:

Virgin Blue has applied to the Fed Govt for rights to fly to LAX & San Fran from Australia's East Coast. They are talking about 6 x 744's.

They intend to set up a new company which has to be 51% Australian owned.

I hope they do as I would rather have an Australian airline access this route rather than Govt backed SIA.

I would say this could lead though to SIA trying to buy into Virgin Blue. QF will then have more chance of getting Air New Zealand.

It will all fall into place over the next 18 months.

Good luck to them!

QFP

[Edited 2004-07-07 01:11:56]

86 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQantaspower From Australia, joined Aug 2002, 516 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 13774 times:

Further on this issue:-

The Flying Cockroach will be trying hard for a SIA buy in so they can use the Virgin name. Hopefully SIA will not make the same mistake twice and but into another Branson venture.

I would expect QF to increase capacity on this route shortly.

Maybe SIA can send over some of their used 744's for the flying roach to use.

QANTASpower


User currently offlineSouthpac From New Zealand, joined Jul 2004, 19 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 13679 times:

Isn't Virgin Blue's business plan primarily concerned in offering low-cost services within Australia and NZ? And furthermore, doesn't this move into larger aircraft operating long-haul services go against this "Virgin-franchise" trend?

Personally I would rather see an Australian airline take advantage of this American-Australian market than a foreign airline!


User currently offlineCx123 From Australia, joined May 2004, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 13586 times:

Is it possible that VS actually does this route???

I think a LCC for Long Haul will NOT work.

However I can already picture the success for VS if they operate this route (with their UCS)

This will kill UA definitely!


User currently offlineQantaspower From Australia, joined Aug 2002, 516 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 13532 times:

VS is a foreign carrier and like SIA cannot access this route. The new carrier will be 51% Aussie owned and hence can fly the route.

It will not be low cost and will have multi classes just like VS.


User currently offlineQ330 From Australia, joined Dec 2003, 1460 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 13495 times:

Looks like virgin is trying to take over the world!  Laugh out loud It will definitely be interesting to see how this turns out.

It will not be low cost and will have multi classes just like VS.

Then I guess it won't be Virgin Blue itself, but another division like Pacific Blue.

-Q



Long live the A330!
User currently offlineACAfan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 710 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 13407 times:

Why not call it Virgin Pacific?


Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
User currently offlineTravel From Australia, joined May 2001, 355 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 13402 times:

It would be quiet interesting to see a Virgin Blue and a SQ alliance. Maybe Virgin Blue may have a portion of a fully serviced airline and a low cost airline.

User currently offlineCx123 From Australia, joined May 2004, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 13373 times:

As long as they have the UCS and I can earn points on Kris Flyer or Vlying Club, I don't really care what they call it.

This will definitely hurt both UA and QF!


User currently offlineAerohottie From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 797 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 13328 times:

I dont see any problem with VS operating the AU-US routes, as long as they are classed as through flights from the UK via US-AU/NZ. This would allow VS to have a better chance of operating this route rather than SQ. The bilateral between AU/US would not nessesarily opposse this type of action by VS.


What?
User currently offlineCx123 From Australia, joined May 2004, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 13268 times:

So they can do a RTW trip like:

LHR-HKG-SYD-SFO-LHR

Sounds like a GREAT idea!


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 13212 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Would DJ use the B744s to open up other routes?

User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2924 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 13137 times:


"They are talking about 6 x 744's."

Is that 6 744 services per week or 6 747's??? The application isn't on the IASC website yet.

Either way I doubt this will seriously dent QF's profitability on the route. IT may even force them to re-start services to SFO which would be great. QF will add services to LAX as fares get lower and will move to a profitability in bulk model rather than carrying fewer pax at a higher fare.

"I dont see any problem with VS operating the AU-US routes, as long as they are classed as through flights from the UK via US-AU/NZ."

Fat chance of that happening. There is a little airline called Qantas that will ensure that!!!!!


User currently offlineSouthpac From New Zealand, joined Jul 2004, 19 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 13107 times:

Go Sydscott!!

Qantas are far too powerful to allow Virgin to gain access into the AU-US market!

A perfect example of this is are the efforts by QF to keep SQ from gaining fifth-freedom rights from Australia. SQ and the Singaporean government have continually pushed for changes to the Air Services Bilateral Agreement between Australia and Singapore - and the Australian government have continually pushed the request to the bottom of the priority list.

And guess who's lobbying the government to do so?


User currently offlineRcs763av From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4393 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 13065 times:

They are flying widebodies. Bye low fares, Bye cash, Bye DJ!!!


Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineAirplaneBoy From United States of America, joined May 2004, 560 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 12988 times:

I wonder if this has anything to do with the new Virgin USA/America brand under development. Interestingly, SFO has been chosen as its hub (on the west coast).

Good luck Virgin. These are some exciting times!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Happy flying!

Travis/LAX


User currently offlineVSFullThrottle From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 280 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 12993 times:

I heard from a DJ duty manager that they were looking at operating to the west coast of the US but I heard that they were looking at Airbus though (the A330 or A340), allthough this was about 2 months ago.

I think this would be a great move by the DJ, and I cant wait to see it.



WOO WOO!!!
User currently offlineWirraway From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 12820 times:

AFP
Wednesday July 7, 10:52 AM (AEST)

Virgin Blue considering challenging Qantas on Australia-US route

Discount airline Virgin Blue said it was considering flying from Australia to the US west coast, directly challenging flag carrier Qantas' monopoly on one of its most lucrative routes.

Virgin Blue spokeswoman Amanda Bolger said the idea was "embryonic" at this stage but the expansion was definitely on the airline's agenda.

"We haven't lodged a formal application with the government yet but we have expressed interest," she told AFP. "You have to get the ball rolling early with these things because they have such a long lead-in time."

Bolger said the idea of flying to the US west coast was one of about 15 concepts generated by a business development unit that Virgin Blue set up earlier this year.

"This one of the the long-term possibilities it's come up with, were also looking at opportunities in China, in India, were considering a lot of ideas," she said.

Flying to the west coast would ratchet up the already intense rivalry between Qantas and Virgin Blue, the low-cost airline that has snatched more than 30 percent of the Australian domestic market since it was set up by British tycoon Richard Branson in 2001.

Qantas hit back earlier this year with the launch of its own discount airline Jetstar.

The latest Virgin Blue proposal would see the airline taking on Qantas head-to-head in the international market for the first time.

It would also involve the airline moving away from its highly successful no-frills formula into full-service international flights and would require major investment in about six long-haul aircraft such as Boeing 747s or 777s.

The Australian government could also expect sharp questioning from Singapore if it gave Virgin Blue permission to fly the Australia-Los Angeles route.

Singapore Airlines has long sought to have the route included under an "open skies" arrangement with Australia but has been frustrated by concerted lobbying by Qantas in Canberra.

Australian officials most recently refused to break the Qantas monopoly last September, saying the airline industry had not yet recovered sufficiently from shocks such as SARS and the Iraq war.

Qantas shares were down eight cents or 2.25 percent at 3.47 dollars (2.47 US) and Virgin Blue was down one cent of 0.5 percent at 2.00 dollars in early trading.
Wednesday July 7, 10:52 AM

AFP

============================================



User currently offlineVH-BZF From Australia, joined Oct 1999, 830 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 12814 times:

Well now I've heard it all!

Quite frankly I think VB should stick to what it does semi-well & that is flying as a LCC in the South Pacific using B737's. They would fail miserably if they tried to mount a big international operation like the one mooted above! But then again that might be a good thing?


You know my thoughts on this airline & the one across the pond!

Cheers - BZF  Smile/happy/getting dizzy




Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
User currently offlineAntares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 39
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 12731 times:

Virgin Blue hasn't yet formerly applied to the Federal Government for transPac.

There is the slight problem of not knowing who will in fact form the next Federal Government, and the latest goss is that the election will be on August 28.

But at the announcement of its last full year results it included a note that the media failed to digest which said that a unit looking at new business opportunities had been set up to explore growth from outside the Australian and New Zealand domestic and transTas catchments and that it was forbidden from distracting the LCC from its core preoccupation with domestic Australia.

The company that operates such longer haul routes, to North America, China and other destinations inaccessible to non-stop 737s will have to be 51% Australian owned for bilateral treaty access. And a Singapore Airlines involvement cannot be ruled out as SQ has a new management team which has put the clash over the establishment of Virgin Blue and its rebuff of a sell out to the dying Ansett into the ancient history basket.

However SQ's stated goal is to fly the transPac routes in its own rights, exploiting the open skies arrangements now more or less in place in all three countries. It too has said that it will wait until it knows who forms the next government before taking matters further.

In my assessment, Virgin Blue has not yet decided exactly what sort of service it will offer, or what sort of equipment it would use, other than to recognise that at the very least there should be a product be in super economy or the full business class suite treatment as well as one for price driven leisure or business flyers.



User currently offlineVS4ever From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 120 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 12708 times:

VH-BSF

Just curious as to why you think Virgin Blue would fail at an international operation, when they can draw on the expertise gained from VS?

Putting the obvious dislike of all things Sir Richard aside. What are your thoughts on the way Aus-US should be, United and Quantas alone? many other markets around the world have more than 2 airlines serving it, why shouldn't this one?

One thing I do agree on, is the fact that, an LCC approach will not work for such a long-haul flight, the comfort factor on these flights is just too important.

I for one, don't see a problem with this. I hope it works out.

VS and DJ 4ever.



Bring Back Orion Airways, you were the best!
User currently offlineSoups From Ghana, joined Jun 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 12690 times:

that should be fab ill look forward to get on one of them any launch date yet?


Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
User currently offlineWirraway From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 12681 times:

As in the AFP news report this would be a full service carrier:

It would also involve the airline moving away from its highly successful no-frills formula into full-service international flights and would require major investment in about six long-haul aircraft such as Boeing 747s or 777s.

Wirraway


User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 12625 times:

Hypothetical of course. A passenger flies from Australia to SFO on Virgin Blue and connects domestically on Virgin America or to London on Virgin Atlantic. There sure are a lot of Virgins in the World  Smile


John@SFO
User currently offlineCx123 From Australia, joined May 2004, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 12579 times:

THat is why I said just then Lefacyins.

All I want to add is if the UCS are offered then it is Good, But if they offer the shitty seats like the ones used domestically, then forget it!
QF is bad enough already


I think the SYD-LAX/SFO routes is one of the Long HAul routes where the product offerings = WEAK!


25 777ER : VH-BZF You know my thoughts on this airline & the one across the pond! For once in your life would you grow up and stop acting like a little child who
26 ANstar : Good news for competiition. Virgin seem to be after United. What with plans to do Australia-US services & Virgin America in SFO eik! Lets hope they do
27 AASuper83 : this is going to be great, going to SFO imo. I hope that Virgin Blue starts up flying to GUM as well, as I am going to school in the states, and this
28 FlyboyOz : wow...that's impossible...I cannot imagine to see the Virgin Pacific's B744s will have all red livery. None of the airlines has painted all red livery
29 United Airline : Guess Virgin Blue wants new planes, not second hand ones.
30 Southpac : I have to agree with VH-BZF. And I am a New Zealander too!! As I said earlier, VOZ is a "low-cost-carrier" and should stick to its business plan. To s
31 QF744 : first of all, this is extremely doubtful and totally unrealistic! there are a few things against Virgin Blue in this one: -the cost of having to lease
32 Aa717driver : I've been saying Branson wanted to link up all the Virgin branded airlines to circle the globe for a year, now. Remember, this is not Virgin Blue, it
33 Yyz717 : A Virgin Blue entry into SYD-LAX would be a direct attack against one of QF's primary intl routes. Yields would drop. The QF order for 380's would be
34 Qantasflyer : Qantas will eat them for breakfast, brunch, lunch, dinner and dessert!! Well said QF744! Regards
35 Cx123 : Actually I don't think Virgin needs to do too much advertising in AUS as many people knows about Virgin already (Virgin Megastore, Virgin Mobile etc..
36 Antares : Well the speculation didn't do the Qantas share price much good after its recent roll, closing 10 cents down at $3.45. While I'd like to see the new c
37 Cx123 : "great business class Sky Bed has been too late in coming to head off the Sky Suites both will certainly use." WELL SAID! QF is TOO LATE!
38 Southpac : I am deeply saddened by your lack of patriotism Antares and Cx123 - at least you have an national carrier you can be proud of! Furthermore, "Qantas is
39 Airbear : QF desperately needs some real competition on AU-US routes. It has been easy until now for QF to count on general public opinion re foreign airlines c
40 Jt8 : By now Qantas would have to be thinking of introducing Aus-US flights on Australian to A) discourage Virgin or B) Have an established low cost carrier
41 Cx123 : Just because I live in the country and I am an Australian that does not mean I can't state the obvious! Qf is good compared to many airlines, but they
42 Southpac : I agree with you Cx123, QF probably does need a shake-up on the US market - but this idea of Virgin Blue being in charge of such a huge proposal - so
43 Cx123 : I know. If it is VS = Fine But if it is DJ then No thanks! I am really looking forward on the VS flight from SYD-HKG later this year (Hopefully! Subje
44 Southpac : Top remark Cx123, top remark! I'd certainly support VS if they came down-under.. I think many would! p.s. Maybe when they have given QF a shake-up the
45 Cx123 : No need for VS to join Star Alliance. Simply form its own Alliance VIRGIN!
46 Southpac : So where next for the new Virgin Alliance? China, South America and perhaps South Africa - I can see it now... Virgin Springbok..... p.s. Better stop
47 Antares : Southpac, Since I arrived in Australia in 1939 I have become a loyal and patriotic Australian. As a New Zealand member I'm surprised that you would qu
48 Post contains images ZKSUJ : "..."VIRGIN TO CREATE ITS OWN MEGA-ALLIANCE" Hey, you've got to admit man, they are pretty much on their way. I remember seeing Richard Branson on a b
49 Southpac : Where in Newmarket was the billboard?
50 Southpac : I admit Antares, I was foolish to question your patriotism, and I apologize profusely! I am not a true Kiwi - having been born and breed in Australia
51 ZKSUJ : Comming down Khyber pass on the bus, heading towards broadway. Near Lion Breweries almost next to Rialto opposite that multistorey carpark, it's high
52 Southpac : I do remember it, I think its still there.... part of an advertisement for ESPY magazine which did a feature on the Virgin empire!
53 ZKSUJ : Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah, that's probably the same one. It's got "Sir Richard Branson ...." written in huge fonts across the page.
54 Antares : Apologies accepted Southpac. Its hot chocolate time for me but I look forward to seeing where this goes, and whether when it gets there Branson is sti
55 Nz1 : Southpac. As a newbie I can forgive your anti Air NZ slant for now, but not any more. Why does it appear that EVERY time the name Air NZ comes up in a
56 Lufthansa : You idiots virgin isnt going to offer the DJ product on a 14 hr flight? do u really think they're that stupid? I mean seriously, they've fried way big
57 Cx123 : Lufthansa, you comments are maybe a bit hard on these Australians, but I agree with you. QF really has to get its act together in order to compete INT
58 ANstar : CX123, I belive that is just what QF are trying to do by revamping their economy cabins and business cabins. I'd love to see QF set up shop in Singapo
59 SunriseValley : What is needed on the route is a true low cost carrier, two class, one with seat pitch of about 34" and one with 29", flat rate $5 cash bar and $10 f
60 ANstar : sunrisevalley, QF have a few specials and prices range from about US$700 - $1000 currently, so I would guess the fares would need to be more round the
61 Wirraway : Thurs "Sydney Morning Herald" Virgin tempted by flights to LA By Scott Rochfort July 8, 2004 Qantas's stranglehold over the Australia to Los Angeles r
62 JET1977 : Is it possible that DJ could deigning their long haul a/c based on providing the most passenger comfort, comparable with QF or surpassing them; withou
63 SunriseValley : The JetBlue business model comparison is interesting. If you go to http://www.curran-connors.com/jb2003/financials.html you will see JetBlues cost fi
64 ANstar : Would anyone want to be stuck on a 14 hour flight with 29" seat pitch.... hmmm me thinks not
65 Antares : Someone said Qantas needs to set up a hub in Singapore. Well, for the past 30 years at least Singapore has been the biggest hub on the Qantas network
66 SunriseValley : 29" seat pitch.... that is what VA offered across the Atlantic into YYZ and also into LAX, I believe. Mind you they put their tail between their legs
67 Trolley Dolley : Interesting. VS and DJ are offering "job exchanges" for cabin crew. (Ref to DJ website) Maybe it's all part of the long term plans to build up the DJ
68 GREATANSETT : Qantas is to strong to be pushed over by Virgin B (They said the same about UA and QF in the early 90's, now look at UA)at this moment, on internation
69 Southpac : NZ1, Never did I say ANYWHERE, that the reason I dislike Air Old Zealand was because of the Ansett saga, and it is very wrong of you to ASSUME so....
70 ZKSUJ : "The reason I dislike the carrier is solely their stance on the alliance with Qantas. They moan and complain that if the alliance is not approved it w
71 Brutie : Southpac, So do you expect NZ to just sit around and do absolutely nothing, pinning all of their hopes on the merger being approved? Sounds like a sur
72 Southpac : I disagree Brutie. To make the claim that NZ has good management - you obviously haven't worked for the company! To give you an example, Branson and V
73 Southpac : Oh, and ZKSUJ, "So, do you hate NZ completely...." I don't hate NZ completely....... hate is a nasty, powerful word. They are just a little stale, and
74 Airzim : What you all have failed to appreciate is that the LCC approach is all predicated on growth. Where else are they going to go in OZ? They are stuck and
75 NZblue : "This will kill UA definitely." What a useless comment. Since when does one additional competitor on one route (or two, perhaps, in this case) cripple
76 VS11 : 1) What is the bilateral agreement between US and OZ? Is it an open skies type with unlimited carriers? Because if it is not, whatever carriers would
77 Brutie : Southpac, I didn't actually say that I thought NZ's management team was good, although the comments I've heard from people currently working for them
78 Qantasflyer : envy the Australians - they have domestic Virgin airline. They would be able to fly on Virgin Atlantic to Europe and Virgin Blue/Pacific to the USA..
79 ClassicLover : It's interesting isn't it? People say Qantas is too strong on the route to be pushed out or to lose market share and other such things. I'm sure the P
80 Qantasclub : Interesting comments. I agree with Lufthansa that if virgin competes SYD-LAX, it will not be a LCC operation. This is Qantas's most lucrative route an
81 Al : What is the bilateral agreement between US and OZ? Is it an open skies type with unlimited carriers? Because if it is not, whatever carriers would wa
82 Nz1 : To make the claim that NZ has good management - you obviously haven't worked for the company Well Southpac, I do. Those who know me will tell you that
83 Southpac : NZ1, I too work for the company, have done so since I was 17. Seven years of my life and have been through three CEO's - by far Toomey was far greater
84 BNE : Virgin Blue to the USA bring it on, although the first line in the thread isn't quite correct, they haven't applied for anything just yet, they have j
85 Aa717driver : If we all jumped on the old Nationalistic bandwagon, TWA and PanAm would be the only two U.S. carriers at LHR and BOAC would be the only UK carrier fl
86 B727-200 : It's time that aviation enterred the 21st century. We live in a global market, and quite frankly I do not give a stuff who operates on the route. Wha
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