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Windshear Almost Brings Down NWA DC9...!  
User currently offlineDeltadude8 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 569 posts, RR: 4
Posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10961 times:

Earlier this morning windshear was heavy around the Kansas City International Airport...

Northwest flight 1753 (1653?) (sorry I didn't catch the number) from Detroit circled over the Kansas City area for a few hours due to weather but the decided it was okay to land...

On the 1st approach to the runway the windshear warning came on and the pilot began to encounter small microbursts....He chose to abort the approach and try again...

On the 2nd approach to the runway, the aircraft encountered the same warning but decided to fly a little longer to see how bad it was? The pilot reported feeling the wind pushing the aircraft to the side and down....He aborted the app. and decided to try again

On the 3rd approach to the runway, the aircraft again encountered the same warning though this time it was not as bad. The pilot decided he would try to touch down...about 1-2 miles out the plane encountered 30-60% lift loss and began to lose rapid altitude. The pilot for the 3rd time increased thrust to full and tried to climb out aborting his approach. The right engine overheated and needed to be set on idle for a time.

Instead of trying to make a 4th or last attempt to MCI on one good engine and one not so good shaped engine, the pilot decided to divert to Whiteman AFB. He landed there with no problems.

Passengers reported the cabin remaining calm and all pax's reported feeling the aircraft begin to be push down very violently. No injuries were reported and pax. were transported by bus back to MCI.

Pilot was quoted as being very quick to manuvour and very smart. Mult. pax stated they felt great confidence with the crew.

We are very lucky to have such great crews like this one...We are also very lucky to have not had to experience another accident like the one in Dallas Texas involving the DL L1011.



63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeingPride800 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 430 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10721 times:

Glad that flight was ok. I hope there's no windshear when I'm on my trip to Detroit on a NWA DC-9.

User currently offlineGib From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 281 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10720 times:

Wow!... WTG flight crew!

Also wasn't the US Air D93 incident/crash @ CLT a few years back windshear as well??


User currently offlineDeltadude8 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 569 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10702 times:

BoeingPride...The windshear occured in Kansas City not Detroit

User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4304 posts, RR: 36
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10681 times:

Maybe it should be better if Northwest replaced these ancient DC-9s, anyone know when they will?  Laugh out loud


nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineSmcmac32msn From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10663 times:

GREAT JOB CREW!

Deltadude8 - Probably what he meant was he hopes that it won't happen on his flight into DTW on a NW DC9. (The same type of plane involved @ MCI.)



Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
User currently offlineSpoon04 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10635 times:

MEA-707, Nice try........... Better luck next time.
Cheers,
Spoon


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 962 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10611 times:

Well this time they landed at the AFB on purpose

Joking aside, great job to the flight crew.. therew could have been a much worse ending


User currently offlineSmcmac32msn From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10605 times:

Well, that wraps up this weeks version of "WHATS NEW ON THE NW DC9 FRONT!", please tune in next week for the next version of this chatline. Thanks for coming!


Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
User currently offlineBoeingPride800 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 430 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10563 times:

I know it happened in Kansas City. I was just saying I hope there is no windshear when I'm on my trip to Detroit on a NWA DC-9.

User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3702 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10544 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Kudos to the front end crew for a job well done. Way to put safety at the top of your list.


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineFSPilot747 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 3599 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10479 times:

"Maybe it should be better if Northwest replaced these ancient DC-9s"

Somehow, I don't think windshear is known to attack DC-9s and nothing else.


User currently offlineCopter808 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1059 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10478 times:

Good job on the mechanical skills (flying the airplane), not so good on the judgment though.

Sounds like one very, very lucky crew.

However, lets play the thing backward and see how it looks:

Airplane crashes with substantial loss of life and an otherwise good airframe after the pilot made 3 attempts at landing during wind shear warnings. Anyone care to guess what the NTSB finding would be? Not favorable to the pilots.

Anyway, it was a lucky crew with a good outcome after a poor decision.


User currently offlineLnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1608 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10390 times:

Thank God for the technology to be able to identify possible wind shear, as well as the knowledge and courageous actions of the crew. Had they not been calm, collected, and well instructed, we could have been dealing with another deadly crash.

ON a lighter note, I felt compelled to mention that once again, the NWA DC-9's have made it into the headlines on this Site HAHA. I actually thought we MAY let it slide for a bit, but.. oh well  Smile

GOOD news story though..

1011yyz



Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
User currently offlineDl757md From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1562 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10321 times:

I have to agree with Copter808. Great job getting themselves out of position they put themselves in not once, not twice, but three times. I'm not going to outright fault the crew for doing this because I wasn't there and I'm not completely familiar with the POM windshear procedures. However IMO after the first windshear warning they should have proceeded to a suitable alternate.

We are also very lucky to have not had to experience another accident like the one in Dallas Texas involving the DL L1011.

If the crew of DL191 would have had the predictive windshear systems and training that goes with it, that the NW crew had the outcome of that flight would most likely have been successful. Also IMO there is great difference between attempting to land right after another plane successfully did so (DL191) and trying to land on your third attempt that resulted in a windshear warning at an airport that has had bad weather for a few hours.

In any event all are safe and hopefully this might add to our knowledge of how to deal with windshear.

Dl757md



757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10260 times:

"I know it happened in Kansas City. I was just saying I hope there is no windshear when I'm on my trip to Detroit on a NWA DC-9."

Yeah, because we all know that windshear follows those NWA DC-9s around the country.



Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineNWA Man From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1828 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10206 times:

A few corrections -


Flight was NW1159 from MEM/SDF, not 1653 from DTW.


Glad to see that the pilots got her down and everything turned out for the best.


Regards,

N-Dub



Create your own luck.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22726 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 10019 times:

Gib- The US crash in CLT was indeed wind shear related.


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFlyABR From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 646 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 9931 times:

hummm...during all this time did any other planes try to land or actually land at MCI?

User currently offlineFlymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7123 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 9872 times:

Good job to the flight crew. Safety is their job.


"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineGib From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 281 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9814 times:

Cubsrule... TYVM for that... Age and laziness made me not research that!

Thanks Man....

Gib


User currently offlineFlyboy36y From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3039 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9791 times:

LOL, InoccouousFox.... that was funny.

User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9758 times:

MEA 707 you beat me to it.

I was going to make a smart ass remark like lets see the A318 or 717 perform as well as the DC-9 in that case  Nuts


User currently offlineLamyl_hhlco From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 621 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9473 times:

But i don't understand one thing , why did he go all the way to Whiteman AFB and he could have gone to kansas city downtown airport and land safely just miles away from MCI ? wouldnt that be closer? Downtown has enough Rw to welcome a C5 .

Lam


User currently offlineFoxecho From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 746 posts, RR: 17
Reply 24, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9395 times:

THIS is why I come to this site for my information!

I was wondering why we got so many folks from NW yesterday at MCI

I only heard bits and pieces of the story. Kudos to the crew on board, and the agents who had to rebook the MEM bound pax.....thanks Deltadude8 for the information.

as for Whiteman/Downtown question, if I lost an engine I'd prefer the longer runway out at Knob Knoster rather than the 7000 footer at MKC/Downtown because if the hydraulics go you have a little more room, instead of ending up in the river...

Andrew
JFK/MEM/MCI

(edited for spelling)

[Edited 2004-07-10 10:17:00]


..uh, we'll need that to live......
25 Sabenapilot : Good job??? Are you nuts??? What kind of idiots does it take to make 3 approaches in severe windshear conditions? 1st approach aborted due to Windshea
26 Lamyl_hhlco : Exactly i totally agree with you Sabena pilot , this should not be happening ! As for KCI they didnt have any hycraulic problems, one of the engine wa
27 IDISA : I fully agree with Sabenapilot. To be perfectly honest I think it is a pure miracle that nothing had happened. Why did the pilot made 3 attempts to la
28 AirAmericaC46 : If Sabenapilot is correct, can someone provide us with the e-mail address of FAA authorities? and the supervisors of NW? and we can all alert them and
29 Dl757md : The FAA and NW are both going to be very interested in why they had to divert to an AFB.
30 Cores001 : In my modest opinion, it looks like the pilot shouldn´t have made the third attempt, however we still don´t know what the standard procedures or pro
31 Post contains images Windshear : Hell no that's not true!!! I was no where near Kansas City International Airport this morning I swear I would never... Boaz...
32 Ltbewr : Three attempts seems very questionable. How many other a/c going into MCI didn't even make one attempt and diverted or waited it out, perhaps at their
33 Elwood64151 : instead of ending up in the river... River, nothing. Fifteen foot (4.5m) concrete/dirt flood control levee sixty feet past the south end of the runway
34 JBirdAV8r : I don't know if I buy that the crew tried three approaches in windshear conditions, especially such severe ones. I find that decision rather, well, du
35 Theflcowboy : To anybody who says that pilots will one day be gone - take a look at this. If a robot were to do that, flight woulda been gone. Kudos to the crew.
36 Veeref : Depends on what the time frame between the 3 attempts was. Wouldn't make much sense to try twice in a few minutes if nothing is going to change in tha
37 Dl757md : I also find it quite remarkable that the first threads said "Kudos to the pilots!" then after Sabenapilot's remarks, the next threads said "I agree wi
38 FinnWings : Three landing attempts in severe weather conditions and windshear doesn't sound good decision in my opinion either. Hard to criticize too much, as I w
39 Bruce : This DC9 circled MCI for "a few hours"???? Isn't that much? How long does a plane usually circle the destination before diverting? bruce
40 Jeffrey1970 : I think it is so funny how so many people on this website rush to judgment as to who is at fault without knowing all of the facts involved. As for me
41 Kilroy : alot of people are quick to say 3 tries and get the hell out of there. but most wind shear is associated with a front squal line or storm which is us
42 Thrust : Wow...this is huge. This could've been a reenactment of that DL L-1011 crash at DFW due to the same thing...a microburst.
43 Jblake1 : Deltadude8 Where did you find this story? I tried google but couldn't find a news blurb. Thanks!
44 FlyABR : i have a question...how does deltadude know about these windshear warnings...etc? plus i find it hard to believe they would circle for several hours..
45 Smcmac32msn : Deltadude8 probably hasn't seen a NWA DC-9 thread on here for a while, so he made it up. EDIT: There is a book on the market by the name of "FINAL APP
46 JetCaptain : >>Earlier this morning windshear was heavy around the Kansas City International Airport >>Posted Sat Jul 10 2004 01:32:46 UTC+1 What was the actual da
47 BR715-A1-30 : Kudos to the flight crew... Does anyone know what series this was (-10, -30/40/50)
48 Deltadude8 : Good Afternoon Everyone...I heard it on my local news stationg here in Kansas City last night and then came and posted...I posted the exact story that
49 Smcmac32msn : Deltadude8 - I'm not questioning your trueness, I am saying that in a FICTION book, an aircraft for North American Airlines (NAA), flight #1653, crash
50 Deltadude8 : Here is an official word from NWA on flight 1159's status yesterday: http://www.nwa.com/cgi-bin/flifo.pro?flight=1159+&day=09Jul&org_apt=&dst_apt=&sch
51 Post contains links MCIB757 : To those of you who actually doubt this happen, here is a link to the Kansas City Star, who had a small right up about it. http://www.kansascity.com/m
52 Deltadude8 : Thanks MCIB757 I just found that right after I found the NWA thing...appreciate the backup.
53 Favre : a/c 9919 flt 9868 just arrived memphis as a ferry----
54 MCIB757 : I didn't realize that you had to be registered to see the article so here is some of it. "Flight diverted A Northwest Airlines flight that was schedul
55 UA777222 : I'm just glad the plane didn't break in half. I'm always amazed at how their a/c look soooo old and look like such S@$# but when it comes down to the
56 MCIB757 : No problem Deltadude8, I hope you would do the same for me if you knew it was true. I think people should actually look for something themselves befor
57 Lamyl_hhlco : I've never had a doubt about the post, i don't know why would Deltadude lie about this , it's all about what really happened, I guess they've talked a
58 Post contains images SonOfACaptain : There is a book on the market by the name of "FINAL APPROACH" using 2 Boeing 737s in a slightly similar incident at MCI (coincidence?). If none of you
59 Goldentail : From a dispatchers perspective, I question why 3 attempts would be done under those conditions as outlined in this post. Granted the sequence of event
60 Kilroy : Why is it people always assume the worst . Protocol could be anything more then plus or minus 10 knots on final predicate a go around . They might be
61 OPNLguy : From another dispatcher's perspective, the only factual things I can determine from reading this thread are that: 1/ There was weather in the MCI area
62 Kohflot : OPNL: The liftlossometer... duh.....
63 Post contains images OPNLguy : >>>The liftlossometer... duh..... That's the one in between the "impending crash indicator" and the "a little hot" light, right? How stupid of me to h
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