Deltadude8 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 569 posts, RR: 4 Posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10977 times:
Earlier this morning windshear was heavy around the Kansas City International Airport...
Northwest flight 1753 (1653?) (sorry I didn't catch the number) from Detroit circled over the Kansas City area for a few hours due to weather but the decided it was okay to land...
On the 1st approach to the runway the windshear warning came on and the pilot began to encounter small microbursts....He chose to abort the approach and try again...
On the 2nd approach to the runway, the aircraft encountered the same warning but decided to fly a little longer to see how bad it was? The pilot reported feeling the wind pushing the aircraft to the side and down....He aborted the app. and decided to try again
On the 3rd approach to the runway, the aircraft again encountered the same warning though this time it was not as bad. The pilot decided he would try to touch down...about 1-2 miles out the plane encountered 30-60% lift loss and began to lose rapid altitude. The pilot for the 3rd time increased thrust to full and tried to climb out aborting his approach. The right engine overheated and needed to be set on idle for a time.
Instead of trying to make a 4th or last attempt to MCI on one good engine and one not so good shaped engine, the pilot decided to divert to Whiteman AFB. He landed there with no problems.
Passengers reported the cabin remaining calm and all pax's reported feeling the aircraft begin to be push down very violently. No injuries were reported and pax. were transported by bus back to MCI.
Pilot was quoted as being very quick to manuvour and very smart. Mult. pax stated they felt great confidence with the crew.
We are very lucky to have such great crews like this one...We are also very lucky to have not had to experience another accident like the one in Dallas Texas involving the DL L1011.
Copter808 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1070 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 10494 times:
Good job on the mechanical skills (flying the airplane), not so good on the judgment though.
Sounds like one very, very lucky crew.
However, lets play the thing backward and see how it looks:
Airplane crashes with substantial loss of life and an otherwise good airframe after the pilot made 3 attempts at landing during wind shear warnings. Anyone care to guess what the NTSB finding would be? Not favorable to the pilots.
Anyway, it was a lucky crew with a good outcome after a poor decision.
Lnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1608 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 10406 times:
Thank God for the technology to be able to identify possible wind shear, as well as the knowledge and courageous actions of the crew. Had they not been calm, collected, and well instructed, we could have been dealing with another deadly crash.
ON a lighter note, I felt compelled to mention that once again, the NWA DC-9's have made it into the headlines on this Site HAHA. I actually thought we MAY let it slide for a bit, but.. oh well
Dl757md From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1562 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 10337 times:
I have to agree with Copter808. Great job getting themselves out of position they put themselves in not once, not twice, but three times. I'm not going to outright fault the crew for doing this because I wasn't there and I'm not completely familiar with the POM windshear procedures. However IMO after the first windshear warning they should have proceeded to a suitable alternate.
We are also very lucky to have not had to experience another accident like the one in Dallas Texas involving the DL L1011.
If the crew of DL191 would have had the predictive windshear systems and training that goes with it, that the NW crew had the outcome of that flight would most likely have been successful. Also IMO there is great difference between attempting to land right after another plane successfully did so (DL191) and trying to land on your third attempt that resulted in a windshear warning at an airport that has had bad weather for a few hours.
In any event all are safe and hopefully this might add to our knowledge of how to deal with windshear.
Lamyl_hhlco From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 621 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9489 times:
But i don't understand one thing , why did he go all the way to Whiteman AFB and he could have gone to kansas city downtown airport and land safely just miles away from MCI ? wouldnt that be closer? Downtown has enough Rw to welcome a C5 .
Foxecho From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 746 posts, RR: 17
Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9411 times:
THIS is why I come to this site for my information!
I was wondering why we got so many folks from NW yesterday at MCI
I only heard bits and pieces of the story. Kudos to the crew on board, and the agents who had to rebook the MEM bound pax.....thanks Deltadude8 for the information.
as for Whiteman/Downtown question, if I lost an engine I'd prefer the longer runway out at Knob Knoster rather than the 7000 footer at MKC/Downtown because if the hydraulics go you have a little more room, instead of ending up in the river...
(edited for spelling)
[Edited 2004-07-10 10:17:00]
..uh, we'll need that to live......
: Good job??? Are you nuts??? What kind of idiots does it take to make 3 approaches in severe windshear conditions? 1st approach aborted due to Windshea
: Exactly i totally agree with you Sabena pilot , this should not be happening ! As for KCI they didnt have any hycraulic problems, one of the engine wa
: I fully agree with Sabenapilot. To be perfectly honest I think it is a pure miracle that nothing had happened. Why did the pilot made 3 attempts to la
: If Sabenapilot is correct, can someone provide us with the e-mail address of FAA authorities? and the supervisors of NW? and we can all alert them and
: The FAA and NW are both going to be very interested in why they had to divert to an AFB.
: In my modest opinion, it looks like the pilot shouldn´t have made the third attempt, however we still don´t know what the standard procedures or pro
: Hell no that's not true!!! I was no where near Kansas City International Airport this morning I swear I would never... Boaz...
: Three attempts seems very questionable. How many other a/c going into MCI didn't even make one attempt and diverted or waited it out, perhaps at their
: instead of ending up in the river... River, nothing. Fifteen foot (4.5m) concrete/dirt flood control levee sixty feet past the south end of the runway
: I don't know if I buy that the crew tried three approaches in windshear conditions, especially such severe ones. I find that decision rather, well, du
: To anybody who says that pilots will one day be gone - take a look at this. If a robot were to do that, flight woulda been gone. Kudos to the crew.
: Depends on what the time frame between the 3 attempts was. Wouldn't make much sense to try twice in a few minutes if nothing is going to change in tha
: I also find it quite remarkable that the first threads said "Kudos to the pilots!" then after Sabenapilot's remarks, the next threads said "I agree wi
: Three landing attempts in severe weather conditions and windshear doesn't sound good decision in my opinion either. Hard to criticize too much, as I w
: This DC9 circled MCI for "a few hours"???? Isn't that much? How long does a plane usually circle the destination before diverting? bruce
: I think it is so funny how so many people on this website rush to judgment as to who is at fault without knowing all of the facts involved. As for me
: alot of people are quick to say 3 tries and get the hell out of there. but most wind shear is associated with a front squal line or storm which is us
: Wow...this is huge. This could've been a reenactment of that DL L-1011 crash at DFW due to the same thing...a microburst.
: Deltadude8 Where did you find this story? I tried google but couldn't find a news blurb. Thanks!
: i have a question...how does deltadude know about these windshear warnings...etc? plus i find it hard to believe they would circle for several hours..
: Deltadude8 probably hasn't seen a NWA DC-9 thread on here for a while, so he made it up. EDIT: There is a book on the market by the name of "FINAL APP
: >>Earlier this morning windshear was heavy around the Kansas City International Airport >>Posted Sat Jul 10 2004 01:32:46 UTC+1 What was the actual da
: Kudos to the flight crew... Does anyone know what series this was (-10, -30/40/50)
: Good Afternoon Everyone...I heard it on my local news stationg here in Kansas City last night and then came and posted...I posted the exact story that
: Deltadude8 - I'm not questioning your trueness, I am saying that in a FICTION book, an aircraft for North American Airlines (NAA), flight #1653, crash
: Here is an official word from NWA on flight 1159's status yesterday: http://www.nwa.com/cgi-bin/flifo.pro?flight=1159+&day=09Jul&org_apt=&dst_apt=&sch
: To those of you who actually doubt this happen, here is a link to the Kansas City Star, who had a small right up about it. http://www.kansascity.com/m
: Thanks MCIB757 I just found that right after I found the NWA thing...appreciate the backup.
: a/c 9919 flt 9868 just arrived memphis as a ferry----
: I didn't realize that you had to be registered to see the article so here is some of it. "Flight diverted A Northwest Airlines flight that was schedul
: I'm just glad the plane didn't break in half. I'm always amazed at how their a/c look soooo old and look like such S@$# but when it comes down to the
: No problem Deltadude8, I hope you would do the same for me if you knew it was true. I think people should actually look for something themselves befor
: I've never had a doubt about the post, i don't know why would Deltadude lie about this , it's all about what really happened, I guess they've talked a
: There is a book on the market by the name of "FINAL APPROACH" using 2 Boeing 737s in a slightly similar incident at MCI (coincidence?). If none of you
: From a dispatchers perspective, I question why 3 attempts would be done under those conditions as outlined in this post. Granted the sequence of event
: Why is it people always assume the worst . Protocol could be anything more then plus or minus 10 knots on final predicate a go around . They might be
: From another dispatcher's perspective, the only factual things I can determine from reading this thread are that: 1/ There was weather in the MCI area