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Clearing Standby PAX  
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2115 times:

So, the other day, I show up at a very small town airport, hoping to get on an earlier flight. I have about 50 mins before the flight leaves, or 2.5 hours before my scheduled flight.

Well, no one at the ticket counter, no one at the gate, I call the airlines "elite" line, and they gladly rebook me on the earlier flight. When I get back to the gate, 30 mins prior to departure, I am told that there are no seats available as all the stand bys have been cleared.

Uh, I am full fare Y, and you have already filled the plane? "YUP", I am told.

Can some one fill me in, on how this is at all possible, the a/c was still at the gate, and actually left 3 mins. early.

Did I miss something?



29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 1, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2100 times:

Well, I guess that you either missed the check-in- or boarding-deadline...

It doesn't really matter if the plane was still at the gate or not - if it was filled with passengers who were checked in and there at the right time, they simply got put on the flight instead of you.

At least that's the only real scenario I can think of for that happening...

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineSpoon04 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2064 times:

DTWclipper, if you were present in the gate area 30 minutes prior to departure and were told that all seats were filled by cleared stand-by psgrs., it sounds as if you were hosed. Revenue passengers are normally accepted and accommodated up to the ten-minute mark (in some cases, fifteen minutes) prior to push. Normally, at the ten minute mark, "no-show" seat reservations are cancelled and stand-bys are cleared off the respective list. Regarding your situation, if any non-revenue airline passenger had been cleared prematurely, that passenger should have been taken off the flight and you, as a revenue passenger should have been accommodated (prior to the ten minute cutoff). The only other scenario I can think of that would pose problems is if another airline cancelled a flight to your destination city - in which case those passengers were rerouted en masse on your carrier. However, rerouted psgrs. off another carrier are normally rebooked as full revenue and not placed on a stand-by list (unless the new flight is showing a limited number of available seats). Perhaps it would have been interesting to have had a supervisor explain how all seats could have been filled with thirty full minutes to push. In any event, it must have been quite frustrating for you NOT to be accommodated on the flight you desired.

User currently offlineFL1TPA From United States of America, joined May 2004, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2060 times:

I'm skittish about asking if this is FL or not - I'm not sure I'd want to know. At FL the way it's supposed to work is:

If you have a full-fare tkt, you can be listed on standby at no additional charge for any other flight that day if available.

If you are an A-plus Rewards Elite member, you can get a CONFIRMED seat on any other flight that day with a Y class reservation, if available.

Standby passengers on resonably full flights (within 20 seats) are not cleared until 10 min. prior to departure in order of listing.

Revenue standbys from earlier/later flights are ALWAYS a higher priority than non-revenue standbys (employees, buddy passes, other airline, etc.).

I am at a loss as to why they said the flight was full and / or they could not "clear" you to board.

Tim.

<>




"Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffin' glue."
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2012 times:

FL1TPA

It was XJ/NW from Ohio (I don't want to name the station, but it wasn't CLE, TOL, CMH, CAK, or CVG) to DTW on a full fare Y class ticket.

My biggest problem was NW Elite services gave me a confirmed reservation when I called from the Airport (there was no one at the gate nor the ticket counter). Rez told me to go the gate and they would issue a boarding pass.

When someone did show up there, she said it was too late, she had cleared all the stand by pax.

dtwclipper



User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 5, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1986 times:

Revenue passengers are normally accepted and accommodated up to the ten-minute mark (in some cases, fifteen minutes) prior to push.
*****

Thy are accepted if they arrive at the gate at that time, and are already checked in. You were not yet checked in, and thus the gate people did not have you on their lists.

This is less about accomodating you as a passenger as it is about keeping the airlines schedule on track. Thus they have cut-off times when they clear non revs, cut off times for checking luggage, and cut off times for checkin.

If the airline has a listy of non revs, and they have to wait until less than 10 min prior to start clearing them in the hope that passengers who were not originally listed for the flight, and havent checked in for the flight might show up.

The aircraft would then go out late, and possibly create missed connections, missed slots and perhaps other inconveniences.

You made a comment about your being full Y and these non revs (lepers) got the seat before you, but the reality on the ground is that everyone else did things by the book, did what they were supposed to do, and you didn't. You changed your booking to an earlier flight, and thus have to accept that sometimes this causes problems.

If I had defend part of your story it would be that there would normally be staff at checkin for you to get on the list, and thus be known to the people at the gate. However in some of the smaller out-stations, the limited number of staff are utilised for everything.

If this is the case, then if you are not there when check-in closes, then you have little to complain of.

J


User currently offlineNlink From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1940 times:

NW policy states that all people must be checked in at least 30 minutes before departure. That is the cut off for checking in people at NW. Any less than that and theres a good chance you want get onthe plane.

User currently offlineSpoon04 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1905 times:

Artsyman, with all due respect, Dtwclipper's status as a full revenue ticket holder seeking access to a different flight is known as a GO-SHOW. The passenger can be booked AND simultaneously cleared off a stand-by list in one computer input, provided the flight has available seats. I know because I performed that function hundreds of times with passengers fitting DTW's scenario. I can't begin tell you the number of flights I worked (both narrow AND wide-body) where I was GO-SHOWING passengers on the fly at the very last second in order to accommodate them, posing no threat of a delay. It's no big deal.... When a revenue passenger arrives at the gate for an earlier/later flight, the seat map is checked, and the input is processed. Then, at the ten minute mark you just start clearing the remaining people - non-revs AND any other revenue passengers. Ten minutes allows plenty of time to accommodate ALL passengers, and the computer provides agents up-to-the-second information on all available open seats. And if worse comes to worse, GO-SHOWS AND non-revs can just be presented "Open Seating" blank boarding passes at the very last nanou-second. Granted, sometimes at smaller, downline stations with limited staffing, it might get a bit more gnarly finding agents who can assist, but since I've work at both hubs AND small downline stations, the procedures are the same (with identical results). I just found it odd that at thirty minutes to push, Dtwclipper was not accommodated more appropriately.

User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1899 times:

Copy of letter sent to XJ & NW:

"Shortly before 4 o'clock this afternoon, I attempted to reschedule my return to Detroit from flight NW (Pinnacle) 5875 to NW (Mesaba) 3353 from Dayton to Detroit.

There was no agent working at the ticket counter nor at the gate between 4 and 4:15 pm.

I called NW Elite services and had them rebook me on XJ 3353, confirmed space, as my ticket was a full (same day) Y fare DTW-DAY-DTW.

At 4:22 a gate agent appears and very rudely and undeserving of my patronage of Northwest and Mesaba, informs me that the plane was full and no seats were available. I told her that I had just changed my reservation. She informed that she had already confirmed her standby passengers.

I am distressed at the lack of communications between Northwest Elite Services and the Dayton Ticket/Gate agent. How can one confirm me, and another deny me boarding? How can Mesaba board stand by passengers prior to a full fare Y coach fare with a reservation?"


Guys, I didn't make this up, why would I?




User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 9, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1889 times:

My guess is here that we were not talking 30 min from departure, as I do agree at that point it should not have been a problem. I have often had situations however where the customer says he/she checked in 30 min prior to find out that it was 12 min, or 18 min. While it doesn't strike me as odd that non revs were cleared 30 min out, it does surprise me that they were seated.

J


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1874 times:

Artsyman,

Are you at NW? If you are and have the capability of looking in the system and seeing when my reservations where changes I will gladly give you the info.

I started to make changes well in advance of the 30 min. rule that you are quoting only because there was no rep available at the ticket counter or the gate.

Please don't call me a liar.

dtwclipper





User currently offlineSpoon04 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1865 times:

Assuming we're dealing with a non-rev situation (clearing them off stand-by)... If I had ever been accused of denying a full Y revenue passenger boarding in lieu of non-revs, I could automatically expect a most unpleasant chat with either a concourse Service Manager, Supervisor, Station Manager, OR WORSE ! Obviously, I wasn't in Dtwclipper's shoes, and I can only go with what has presented scenario-wise. But the more I think about it, not accepting a full revenue passenger THIRTY FREAKIN' MINUTES before push is totally unacceptable - someone is obviously overdue for a remedial course in gate procedures

User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 12, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1855 times:

Please don't call me a liar.
****

I don't recall doing thhat in any of my posts, I do recall saying that in my experiences, more often than not, the situation is different than the customer says it is.

I do however agree that IF you were at the gate, checked in 30 min prior to departure, that it is not acceptable for them not to board you, and continue to board Non revs.

j


User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1804 times:

either you missed the check in deadline or the person behind the counter didn't get it.


Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1802 times:

this is something i'd write a letter to management about.


Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1787 times:

Jetdeltamsy:

I already did, to both NW & XJ. XJ Responded in about an hour, saying that they are handled by NW, and they forwarded my e-mail to NW.

I'll let you know what transpires

dtwclipper


User currently offlineJtnwafsd From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 24 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1749 times:

2 things about this is
1: how did you get to the gate without checking in I am from a small station and unless you checked in on the internet or at the SSD or by an agent you cannot get thru TSA security.
2: You were not on a standby list or any other list for you were not checked in and the gate agent was not looking for you if you were checked in or verified on the stand by list they should of had a seat for you.
What you encountered was an agent who could have cared less that day which is sad but it happens and as a gate agent myself it does not take a long time to process standby's and I would never clear enough to fill the whole plane that early because I try to avoid situations like the one you encountered. the small station I work in we always have one agent at the counter at all times because one flight overlaps another so we are working with passengers most of the day. you should direct your questions to the station manager not the supv. about clearing standby's and about noone working the counter.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1740 times:

Jtnwafsd :

1. Since it was a same day r/t I of course checked in via the web before I left my home in the a.m., so I had a boarding pass.

2. When I arrived at the airport (my appointment finished early) there was no one at the ticket counter, so I called NW Elite Services (I am platinum elite), they rebooked me on the earlier flight. This was one hour before departure. I waited there 15 mins.


3. Once I got to the gate, through security etc, it was close to 15 past the hour. The agent was printing boarding passes. I said I wanted to get on the flight. She asked if I was on the stand by list, I said, no. I have a reservation, elite services just changed it. She looked at my boarding pass, and then she said, too late, already cleared them.

4. I called NW back, and they put me back on the later flight.




User currently offlineJtnwafsd From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 24 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

So the gate agent would not even put you back on your original flight you had to call res back to get rebooked was it a busy day or did this agent just not give a crap?

User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1705 times:

I felt it better to extricate myself from the area, and make the change myself (this is a lot nicer than say she didn't give a crap). She was not very interested in working with me.



User currently offlineUALFAson From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 741 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1653 times:

My apologies to you, Dtwclipper, for your unpleasant experience.

Even if all had transpired exactly the way you said (and I have no reason to doubt that it did), with 30 minutes before departure, why didn't the agent pull one of the non-rev stand-bys?

It doesn't happen very often, but I have been pulled off flights when a revenue pax shows up at the last second, and I've seen it happen to others. The joke is that you can never really breathe a sigh of relief that the seat is yours until wheels are up.

I think you have a legitimate complaint.



"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1567 times:

Response from NW:


In your recent email, you alerted us to your concerns regarding the
service provided while traveling with us. On behalf of Northwest
Airlines, we sincerely apologize for the unprofessional and uncaring
attitude portrayed by our customer Service Agents in Dayton. I can
certainly understand your frustration with this situation.

Please know that we recognize that obtaining high customer satisfaction
levels are a necessity for business success. There is virtually no
better way to create a favorable impression than by proving to customers
you are interested in them and value their opinion. The behavior you
described clearly falls far short of our high standards.

When a report such as yours is received, we will address this
internally. We will coach our employee on the consequences of their
performance. To that end, a copy of your communication has been
forwarded to the appropriate management staff.

We acknowledge that our customers are the reason we are in business.
Please know we consider it a privilege to serve you.

We value you as our loyal customer, and for that reason we have added
7500 WorldPerks bonus miles to your account XXX XXX XX. You may visit
our website at www.nwa.com/freqfly/ to verify these miles have been
posted. Please allow 3 business days for miles to appear.

Mr. XXXXX, as our customer, especially our Platinum Elite members, you
are in the best position to point out areas that need attention. We
appreciate the opportunity to respond and hope to welcome you onboard a
future flight. Given this privilege, I am confident we will provide the
excellent service you deserve and have every right to expect.


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 22, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1549 times:

Yeah I do think you were fed a line, gate agent might of cleared the stand by list to early and thought well you might not say anything and she/he would get away with it... Good for you to have said something.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineSpoon04 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1506 times:

Dtwclipper, a most appropriate reply from NW I believe..... It appears they take situations such as yours quite seriously, and rightfully so. I trust you are satisfied with their response.

User currently offlineMSPXJGuy From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 150 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1470 times:

DTWClipper, wow, sorry about your experience. I'm with XJ and most of the agents here in MSP would wait. If the flight was that full, we would hold off giving seats to all the stand by passengers until it was closer. The 30 minute thing on the regional end doesn't really do much for us. We would never deny trying to help out someone if they arrived like 15 minutes prior unless it was oversold. We might be inconvenienced but Non-revs know that there is a possiblity that something might happen and they might not make it. Even stand-bys should be aware of this. Someone at Northwest obviosly wasn't being accomadating to you. It doesn't take much to board an Avro, and boarding one if doing it fast can be done in 15 minutes.

25 Post contains images Skyway1 : DTWClipper.... Good to hear you were in DAY on Saturday.....our(TZ)counter is just down the way from NW's. I actually rerouted a passenger on NW5875 f
26 N757kw : I find the reply from NW to be a little lacking. The reply to me seems to be a form letter without any research done on the situation. As for the empl
27 Post contains images Skyway1 : DTWClipper..... Just one question....were the standbys that were cleared non-revenue passengers or were they were revenue passengers??? Because, as st
28 Dtwclipper : Skyway1: I don't have that information, sorry. All she said was that she had cleared "stand bys." I however had a confirmed reservation, 30 min prior
29 Northwestair : when I go into work on Tuesday I'll call my Supervisor Buddy that works in DAY and see what happened to the employee. Anytime they say Coaching all th
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