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What Was The Point Of Air Canada Tango?  
User currently offlineTriJetFan1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 7
Posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4717 times:
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Hi all, I recently found that Tango was been suspeneded some time ago. I was just wondering why it fell in and what was its real point?


Earned PPL June 26, 2007
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGreasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3076 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4631 times:

To break and destroy Canada 3000.

It worked

Greasespot



Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2951 posts, RR: 37
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4541 times:
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To break and destroy Canada 3000.


yup, that's about the size of it, it was so succesful C3 folded the day before Tango actually flew.



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4506 times:

Tango was a feeble attempt to create an LCC within AC mainline. Of course it failed since the operating costs were still higher than Westjet, and also because it was the same inept & incompetent mgmt running Tango as were running AC mainline.

To break and destroy Canada 3000.

C3 failed on its own.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineWhiteguy From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 763 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4441 times:

Tango had nothing to do with C3 going under. Tango started flying Nov 1st and 80% of flights actually cancelled for the first 2 weeks because the loads were so poor. C3 went under because they went on a spending spree and decided to become a schedualed carrier. I think if they would have stuck to the charters they would still be around today.

User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4430 times:

so tango`s routes will be fully taken over by ac and its affilates?

at which date the transition will be finished?


User currently offlineRT514 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4413 times:

Tango was a feeble attempt to create an LCC within AC mainline

Exactly.
Quite simply put, Tango was to Air Canada as Song is to Delta.


so tango`s routes will be fully taken over by ac and its affilates?
at which date the transition will be finished?


If I'm not mistaken, Tango is already technically defunct and the A320's bearing Tango liveries will become a rarer sight as they get repainted in AC colors. Now, AC sells "Tango Fares" on AC mainline, a discounted, no return trip required fare for many flights within Canada and between Canada and the USA.

[Edited 2004-07-13 20:33:58]

User currently offlineCanadaEH From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 1341 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4381 times:

Tango was an even worse idea than Zip.

Tango was operated by mainline pilots (if I'm not mistaken?) at mainline payscales, only with lower ticket prices. So mainline Air Canada operated Tango at the same same price as a mainline aircraft, only with cheaper fares.

Zip, on the other hand, was operated with 'B' scale employees at a rate competitive (but still higher) with Westjet. Zip IMO was more of a success than Tango was.

Kind of makes you wonder: does Air Canada like to dance? Zip, Tango, Jazz... hmmmm.. Guess we'll find out when it emerges from CCAA.  Smile



EH.
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4369 times:

Yet another attempt at the airline within an airline concept.......Tango was AC's response to LCC and mainly flew leisure or low-yeild routes. AC had Tango, DL had Express and now Song, CO had CO Lite, and US had Metrojet, and none have been successful......Song is still flying but the future of Song is very unclear. Lets see if United's TED and Qantas' Jetstar are any more successful.

User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4333 times:

so what is the oulook for zip? are there plans to discontinue it too?

User currently offlineCanadaEH From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 1341 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4312 times:

Zip's 737-200 fleet is being retired and all the Zip employees are being rolled into Air Canada's mainline fleet.

Zip is gone.



EH.
User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4285 times:

At which date zip will be fully integrated in AC?

The star download timetable doesn't show them, even not for the winter timetable.


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4277 times:

I used to be a pretty vocal critic of Tango, but viewing it in the right retrospective light I realize that it had its role to play, albeit in a limited capacity - and for the most part it played it pretty well.

Tango was officially born as a concept following the death of RootsAir and Milton's plan to build an AC LCC out of those ashes. As the scheduled airline competition in Canada grew in 2000 as everyone rushed to fill the perceived CP vacuum, it became obvious that AC was oversized. However, the Government of Canada had mandated as part of the AC-CP merger agreement that the airline was NOT PERMITTED TO REDUCE THE WORKFORCE until 2003. While this was subsequently relaxed following 9/11, at the time that Tango was being contemplated there was an urgent need to rededicate these excess resources to CUT LOSSES. Tango was never intended to be profitable as a standalone entity. It was simply a means for AC to cut their losses until they were able to restructure on their own terms, something that they finally were able to do when they filed for creditor protection.

What Tango succeeded in doing was creating brand awareness that exceeded even their own expectations. That is why the Tango concept (or paradigm if you prefer  Big grin ) has lived on in the form of the branding for the ultra-low North American fare types.

BTW, since I'm virtually certain this thread will be forwarded to him soon enough, hi Ben! Big grin


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4255 times:

At which date zip will be fully integrated in AC?

Zip ends September at which time all Zip crew will be sent to retraining for incorporation into mainline.

The star download timetable doesn't show them, even not for the winter timetable

Star downloadable timetable has NEVER shown Zip flights.


User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4193 times:

B747: sure wasn't it in the star timetable. But I guess AC will replace most of the former zip routes to AC or jazz. Today there is only one daily AC flight from Edmonton to Vancouver. The rest is zip. So with abandoning zip there has to be an replacement. But nothing is listed in the star timetable for October so far. That was what I meant and what makes me wonder.

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4175 times:

However, the Government of Canada had mandated as part of the AC-CP merger agreement that the airline was NOT PERMITTED TO REDUCE THE WORKFORCE until 2003. While this was subsequently relaxed following 9/11, at the time that Tango was being contemplated there was an urgent need to rededicate these excess resources to CUT LOSSES.

Keep in mind Sean that AC walked willingly into the CP merger. AC could have fought against the no-layoff provision or even walked away from the merger.

AC's agreement to not reduce the workforce until 2003 was a disasterous strategic move whose blame can be laid only at Milton's shifty feet.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4152 times:

Keep in mind Sean that AC walked willingly into the CP merger

The AC-CP merger is a textbook case for why there should be minimal government interference. If Collenette had simply kept his nose out of things to begin with, we'd have had CP go under as they deserved to and the smaller carriers and AC pick up the slack. Nature (and free markets) abhor a vacuum and that would have created better competition and more longterm net gains.

Once Collenette decided to suspend the rules and allow CP a special exception to the foreign ownership limits, Milton had no choice but to push for the merger. A level playing field must apply to everyone. Allowing CP access to foreign capital while keeping everyone else's hands tied behind their back was not helpful to anybody in the industry. CP was expendable. Not letting them die in 1999 was the defining event that triggered AC's later problems.

Lets not blame AC for willingly taking over CP. Based on the alternative, it was the safer course of action. The true blame must lie with David Collenette.


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