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More AA Cuts  
User currently offlineAa717driver From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1566 posts, RR: 13
Posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3484 times:

A friend just got the call from the STL Chief Pilot--125 more pilot furloughs in the Fall. Guess that will push the recalls off another year... Insane TC


FL450, M.85
13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAuae From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 296 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3416 times:

Well I hope it is just a bad rumor. Good luck AA.

Shawn



Air transport is just a glorified bus operation. -Michael O'Leary, Ryanair's chief executive
User currently offlineJaxs170 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3386 times:

I was talking to an AA pilot who said he expected this to happen. He said it was at least partially due to the retirement of the F-100s from the fleet with no new planes coming in to replace them.


707, 717, 727, 732/3/4/5/6/7/8/9, 752, 762/3/4, 744, 772, MD-80/2/3/8, DC-9, F-100, A319/20/21, A333, DC-10, MD-11, ARJ,
User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3357 times:

Well, I hope wil see about pilots are make recalls again.

User currently offlineAA777223ER From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 220 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3253 times:

The coming furlough of 123 pilots is part of the concessions and "restructuring agreement" reach last year with all work groups at AA. It just happens that the furlough of pilots is gradual due to retraining for other aircraft, etc. All other furloughs were completed last year for the other work groups.

Regards,

AA777223ER



time flies, seize the day
User currently offlineKKMolokai From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 760 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3207 times:

Media Advisory: American Airlines Reports Completion Of Expected Pilot Furloughs Related To 2003 Restructuring Agreement

Fort Worth, Texas – American Airlines today reported the furlough of 123 pilots resulting from the company's restructuring agreement of April 2003. American and the Allied Pilots Association have been working closely to keep the number of pilots affected as low as possible, consistent with the company’s operational requirements and the volume of pilot retirements. The furloughs will be effective Oct. 1.

American previously furloughed 1,356 pilots as part of the restructuring agreement, with the most recent round occurring in March. The furloughs were staggered to account for pilot training and planned operational changes, which include the retirement of the F100 that will be complete in September and the retirement of the TWA LLC operating certificate at the end of August. Furloughs of other work groups in association with the restructuring agreement were completed in 2003.




We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 16
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3198 times:

All other furloughs were completed last year for the other work groups.

And many customers will tell you it shows. IMHO AA has cut too much. At MCI last week they had one gate agent working the flight. This person was responsible for checking passengers in, taking their boarding cards when boarding began, closing out the flight, and closing the aircraft door. Bottom line, if someone wanted assistance after the check in period, they had to wait until the agent for the flight was done with their chores. Even Southwest has two people working the flight...one to tend to customer needs and the other to handling boarding and door closing. Perhaps AA should start looking at other ways to cut costs than by cutting headcount. Heck...maybe they could look at a way of increasing revenues. They might find that they need to recall many employees.

My flight on AA was necessitated by my mothers funeral. So I was flying on a bereavement fare. The fare was quite good ($209 round trip before taxes and airport fees). AA made about 20 cents per mile off my and my wife and daughter's tickets. That's well above their ASM costs, and it's a very good price for the route. Had I had to fly down without benefit of the bereavement fare, the ticket would have cost over $800 before taxes and fees. Something tells me that if they would charge something in the neighborhood of $250 for their unrestricted tickets, they'd find themselves having to sell fewer of the deep discount tickets and actually make a profit on the flight. What is it about managment at "troubled" airlines not getting this? Instead they form the "airline within an airline" concept, which has never worked, and any attempts to claim that Ted or Song is working is dubious at best (AA to their credit hasn't adopted this particular concept...yet). Yeah, they might not have as many seats filled with the butts of those who paid $160 for a transcon round trips, but those seats most likely would be filled by a person paying a reasonable fare that made the airline a profit. But those money losing butts in seats count towards "market share". Too bad market share doesn't usually translate into "profit". Sorry for the tangent, but I hate to watch good companies go to hell because they focus solely on workforce reductions to get them out of their financial hole. They can reach a point where they cut too much. IMHO - they've already reached that point.


User currently offlineAa717driver From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1566 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2918 times:

Goingboeing--Do YOU have a Harvard MBA? Are YOU in senior management? How could YOU possibly be as smart as the people running (insert financially troubled airline here)? How dare YOU challenge the intellect of the masters of finance and airline management! You insignificant little... Oh, is this microphone on!? Big grin

That's just a glimpse of how management at AA views input from its employees and pax. They can't/won't change and they will blame poor results on employee costs. Blah, blah, blah... Insane

Sorry about your mother. Take care.TC



FL450, M.85
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16308 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2844 times:

They can't/won't change and they will blame poor results on employee costs.

It's a commodity business. The problem with legacy carriers IS INDEED employee costs.

Any legacy carrier employees making more than their counterparts at AirTran, ATA, AmWest, Frontier etc, are overpaid. It's that simple.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineAuae From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 296 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2782 times:

It's a commodity business. The problem with legacy carriers IS INDEED employee costs. - Yyz717

*****

That is pretty blanket statement. If it were that easy, legacy carriers would just cut all non-union salaries and drive on.

Although salaries are the biggest expense at legacy carriers, and at all carriers for that matter, they are not the only problem.

Please reference the following info for 2004Q1, collected by Eclat and published by AvDaily:

CASM

Network - AA,CO,DL,NW,UA,US
LowCost - FL,HP,F9,B6,WN,Spirit

Airline Labor Mtc A/c Cost Prop&Fac Interest Food Comm Ads

Net -3.52- -1.13- -.93- -.63- -.43- -.26- -.23- -.09-
Low -2.19- -.82- -.76- -.35- -.11- -.03- -.04- -.15-


Indeed labor costs are the most out of whack, but it is not the only problem, aren't out of whack across every labor group, and are certainly not easy to fix. And as far as pay differential, you will find that in every industry. I bet the CocaCola bottlers make more than the ChekCola bottlers. If they made a $100.00 an hour more, then that would be a problem, but a 10.00 an hour difference is just water under the bridge. Further more, even if CocaCola bottlers made 50% more than their counterparts, that doesn't mean that every Coke employee makes 50% more than their counterparts. Its not just that simple.

Shawn

[Edited 2004-07-16 19:50:36] Trying to make the numbers a little more readable.

[Edited 2004-07-16 19:52:40]

[Edited 2004-07-16 19:53:11]


Air transport is just a glorified bus operation. -Michael O'Leary, Ryanair's chief executive
User currently offlineAAnalyst From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2756 times:

Goingboeing - You've worked how many flights at a gate? You've checked in how many passengers? From someone who's worked hundreds of flights, and checked in thousand's of passengers, working a flight by yourself is not all that hard. This has been aided by the fact that since 9/11 outside parties are not allowed into the gate area.

For a flight that isn't overbooked, or running behind (necessitating rebooking connections), a single gate agent can easily run a flight at the gate. Don't forget that now you have to have a boarding pass to make it down to the gate. Therefore, the gate agent really doesn't do all that much check-in. Instead they spend their time with seat changes, and ensuring special service passengers (wheelchairs, blind, deaf, children) are taken care of.

I saw a single agent work an overbooked 777 out of JFK last week without a problem. You can't tell me that your agent in MCI (unfoubtedly working a SP80) had that many problems.



Knowledge is Power. Power Corrupts. - Study Hard, Be Evil
User currently offlineAIR757200 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1579 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2677 times:

All other furloughs were completed last year for the other work groups.

Yeah, that was me. *tear*

At MCI last week they had one gate agent working the flight.

After 9/11, AA in many cities (including the hubs) changed to a one-agent per flight system depending on the configurationof the gate. For example, ORD, DFW & LAX (most gates), the EGR is located right at the agent podium, therefore the utilization of one agent was feasible. However, in other cities, where the EGR may be located much further from the agent podium (for example: DTW)- the two agent system remained (lead/assist). If you noticed lately, mainly the hubs (ORD & DFW)- you'll see two agents at each gate (some gates will still only have one agent). So, really, it depends on the operational requirements by each station now- AA isn't shy to put two agents on a flight. When the flight is an widebody, full, oversold or delayed- two or more agents is typical.

I saw a single agent work an overbooked 777 out of JFK last week without a problem. You can't tell me that your agent in MCI (unfoubtedly working a SP80) had that many problems.

It really depends, the agent working the 777 may have had everything working for him/her.. obviously in some cases, the agent may have been overwhelmed. I personally had my own set of rules when working alone, which wasn't that often- I would close the flight off early (lock the ticket counter from issuing boarding passes early and they will have to call me to allow check-in for late people, etc.)- no problem. But on the other hand, I had a flight from hell and it was only an Ealge ERJ-135!

In my opinion- it's always good to have two agents. One is the lead, and one is the assist - and your not necessarily adding to the payroll as many of the agents continually rotate (how our station operated).


User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2611 times:

Goingboeing - You've worked how many flights at a gate? You've checked in how many passengers? From someone who's worked hundreds of flights, and checked in thousand's of passengers, working a flight by yourself is not all that hard. This has been aided by the fact that since 9/11 outside parties are not allowed into the gate area.

gosh, you're right...I'm just a lowly customer, not an SME. All I can tell you is that me (and some other "inside parties") noticed the lack of a gate agent to offer assistance.

I saw a single agent work an overbooked 777 out of JFK last week without a problem. You can't tell me that your agent in MCI (unfoubtedly working a SP80) had that many problems.

No, I can't honestly tell you what problems he was having. I don't think he was having any...from the little I saw of him, he seemed perfectly capable of performing the tasks assigned to him. But see, the one with the problem was ME, not him...and there wasn't anybody there to address that problem. I would have tried using the agent for my flight, but she appeared out of the jetway, and as I made may way to the counter, began calling for boarding, so there went that plan.

Fortunately, my problem wasn't that big of a deal - it certainly wasn't worth enough to delay the flight while the agent addressed it after everyone had boarded and could turn her attention to me. But you know something? You might want to check out some consumer websites to see how things can be blown up mightily. Read the rants about the "poor service" because the FA didn't immediately bring a seat belt extender or how "rude" the gate agent was. You might want to read the books on how someone having a "bad" experience will tell 11 other people about it (usually embellished) and will only tell maybe one of a good experience.

Sorry, but this "I've done it and you haven't" attitude really discounts the fact that an airline is a SERVICE industry. Consumers don't give a rats ass about how easy it is to handle a 777 single handedly...if that agent exceeds every task involved in handling a flight (according to the carefully researched study from the efficiency expert) it means diddly squat if the customer (remember them?) perceives a lack of service. You stop caring about what the consumer thinks and the consumer will very quickly catch on. And that's not a good thing to have happen when you need every dollar you can get.

AA717driver - I see what you mean - if the opinion of the customer means nothing, opinions of front line employees must mean even less.  Insane


User currently offlineAa717driver From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1566 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2198 times:

Yyz717--CASM is king... Or half of the kingdom. It doesn't matter if you pay your pilots $1million a year, if your CASM is lower than your competition and your RASM is in the ballpark, you make money.

At TWA, our labor costs were very low. We just had a huge revenue drain from Carl and were paying outrageous lease costs due to our previous bankruptcies.

ATA's labor costs aren't at the top of the industry but their costs are out of whack because of their aircraft costs and debt service.TC



FL450, M.85
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