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Etihad To Place Huge Order... Bad Investment?  
User currently offlineKevin From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 1146 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8528 times:

Etihad Airways, based in Abu Dhabi, is expected to buy as many as 38 new aircraft from Airbus and possibly Boeing for delivery by 2009. The airline plans to order the Airbus A330 and either the Airbus A340 or Boeing 777 however a decision expected now has been delayed a bit.

This is very good news. but Abu Dhabi and Dubai are not so faraway from each other, and having Emirates as your next door neighbour does not look so good for a new carrier. The traffic to UAE is good, but will they be able to fill so many seats. Too risky if you ask me./.


48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNyc777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5802 posts, RR: 47
Reply 1, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8497 times:

I think they should be able to. Think of it as the Mid East version of competition between the major US carriers.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineKevin From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 1146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8480 times:

Nyc777:

Competition is fine. But not when you direct competitor has an internationally recognised fame, outstanding reputation, has a nice sounding name (not so Arabic sounding, this can scare some Americans and Westerners) and especially when the owner of your direct competitor is the Sultan of UAE.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8452 times:

It seems that each of the Gulf states now want to operate a big airline.....I question whether there is enough traffic and demand to support each of these new and expanding carriers. EK's growth has been nothing short of amazing, and maybe they can pull it off (but remember how many planes and the size of the planes that they have on order...its hard to comprehend), but with Qatar and Etihad planning to grow, and Gulf Air still a major player in the region, it seems as if the market is getting very crowded.

I realize that the Gulf states are trying to transform themselves into major centers of international trade, and that each of the small nations are convinced that a huge international airline is a requirement to make this transformaton, but can air traffic support 3 or 4 major international hubs in the region?


User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8429 times:

You have to think about GF who are having their second base, AUH 'attacked'


EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineNyc777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5802 posts, RR: 47
Reply 5, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8418 times:

True but branding is what's going to get passengers in. If Eithad follows a similar branding as Emirates then I think they can really do well, especially if they're price competitive.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineKevin From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 1146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8405 times:

I mean we can speculate, but I would not call it a speculation. One or more carriers in the Gulf will dissapear (go bancrupt, leave volontarily). Emirates has A 380s on order, same goes to Qatar. GF are steadily growing and now you've got Etihad... Not enough space and demand. Only if Etihad will become some sort of long haul LCC targetting Europe Asia or Europe Australia market.
That would be neat.


User currently offlineSleak76 From Kuwait, joined Nov 2000, 345 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8403 times:

In the US, the country can handle multiple airlines, esp when considering the population there is 290+ million. Good basis to have multiple airlines.

The entire Gulf region's population barely reaches 35 million, and most countries in the middle east haven't adopted the open-skies policy between themselves. Thirdly, any carrier in the Gulf, especially due to the low population base, tend to rely on transit traffic (pax) for their revenue (and to fill up their seats).

I agree Kevin. It does sound risky. But then again, like Emirates, since the government of Abu Dhabi will own the airline, they'll be injecting it with cash, year after year, to help it going.



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User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8372 times:

So.....whats the correct pronounciation of `Etihad' anyway? And what is its meaning?


` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineSleak76 From Kuwait, joined Nov 2000, 345 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8345 times:

Voodoo

pronounciation is "it-ti-had"
Its Arabic for united



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User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8340 times:

Voodoo,

The correct pronunciation is "it-ti-hhad" and it means union, unity, or united depending on how it's used in context.

Which is quite hypocritical of course. Abu Dhabi creating its own airline to compete with Dubai is hardly expressing "unity," that's called competition.  Smile

Every emirate (state) in the UAE competes with each other, especially Dubai.

Some say that one day, after Sheikh Zayed dies, Dubai may secede from the UAE....

Many argue that it won't happen, but who knows.....

Sleak76 explained the situation perfectly. The fact is Emirates (the carrier of Dubai), Air Arabia (the carrier of Sharjah), and now Etihad Airways (the carrier of Abu Dhabi) are all highly government subsidized and these 3 cities are all very close to each other. If it weren't for these subsidies, only one large carrier could survive and perhaps another one that remains small. But thanks to the subsidies....you can have as many airlines as you want. That's the ideology in the UAE.

I have heard that if Air Arabia ever makes a profit, it won't happen until 2006 at the earliest. Haven't heard anything about Etihad.

While as an aviation enthusiast, it's great to see more airlines, it's sad to see that Abu Dhabi has ventured off in an endeavor like Dubai that will end up endangering Gulf Air which maintains its second largest hub in Abu Dhabi.

Again...hardly unity.

But I guess that's how it works...

Regards

[Edited 2004-07-16 22:51:30]


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineB727fan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8297 times:

BA and Sleak76 ;
You guy hit the nail right on the head! Good analogies.
If I may add, I think since all carriers are vastly subsidized by their governments, perhaps some the competition would be based on rivalries of the regional Sheikhs rather than actual "expansion & profit"!! I lived in Dubai for 5 years 88-92 and I have seen how some of the people like to show off!
Regards


User currently offlineKorg747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 549 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8292 times:

Speaking of Etihad's order (United airline of the arab:D). Do you all think it's going for airbus only or would Etihad get smart and split it with Both Boeing and Airbus?


Please excuse my English!
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1001 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8271 times:

Do you all think it's going for airbus only or would Etihad get smart and split it with Both Boeing and Airbus?

I find it no mistake that Boeing released an update yesterday touting improved performance of the 773ER and 772LR. These improvements should help the hot and high performance of the 777, already better than that of the A340, and could help push Boeing through.

I'm personally hoping for the 777 (hey I'm a BA shareholder, what do you expect  Big grin ). The 777 has all the technical merits to justify its aquisition, but the A330s do slightly help the A340, not that opperating A330s and 777s side by side is unheard of.


User currently offlineNwacrew From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8228 times:

Since the Emirates apparently have BILLIONS of dollars to fritter away on HUGE airlines competing for the same transit passengers, imagine if some of that petroleum largesse was used to help feed the hungry, provide treatment to AIDS victims in third world countries, or (Praise Allah!), get their Palestinian bretheren out of the hovels they've been living in since the end of World War ll...

User currently offlineUshermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2969 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8209 times:

"provide treatment to AIDS victims in third world countries"

Would also be nice if your country did the same, w/o economical or "moral" interests attached.



Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1001 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8207 times:

imagine if some of that petroleum largesse was used to help feed the hungry, provide treatment to AIDS victims in third world countries, or (Praise Allah!), get their Palestinian bretheren out of the hovels they've been living in since the end of World War ll...

Just to nip a politcal cluster bomb in the making, check where all our tax dollars go. The U.S.A isn't exactly the most benevolent nation on Earth either, hell most our money goes to either Social Security or the D.o.D. But yes, it would be nice if EVERYONE in the world were a little more... caring.


User currently offlineNwacrew From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8170 times:

Yes, the United States spends billions irresponsibly as well. I didn't mean to suggest I'm letting crooked, self-serving Washington D.C. off the hook.

It just burns me when I read about vast sums of money being squandered when most of the world's population is in need of the very basics: food, clean water, health care...


User currently offlineWhitehatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 8155 times:

So the United Arab Emirates has got two carriers.

One called United and one Emirates

did everyone miss that?  Wink/being sarcastic


User currently offlineA300 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 8111 times:
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Actually there is also Air Arabia based in Sharjah, UAE. There is now an airline for United, Arab and Emirates.
The population of Persian Gulf is actually well above 100 million. You guys did not mention the most populated country, Iran which covers the entire northern coast.



Boland Aseman Jayegah Man Ast.
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8036 times:

A300; Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, the U.A.E. and Oman are at the "Arabian Gulf". It is the same as the one of Persia, just another name. But terminology matters ! And while Iran is in Asia, the Arab countries mentioned are in the Arab World .

User currently offlineWhitehatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8021 times:

Good luck to Etihad anyway.

It shows that the UAE isn't going to sit on its behind and wait for oil revenues in the Gulf States to dry up. Rather than palaces and US/EU stock market investments they are putting their capital to work at home into an industry which isn't petroleum-production.

That's where other Gulf states are going wrong. Saudi Arabia isn't forward planning with an investment plan into a new source of GDP, but exporting its capital into foreign investments. All it could potentially take is a diplomatic crisis and that would be frozen. At least the Emirates are building a new revenue producing industry which they see as being a global airline player.


User currently offlineACAfan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 710 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8019 times:

Iran is Iran and the Gulf is the Gulf, and never the twain shall meet.

Iran doesnt count because its population base is not on the coast, and Iran Air doesnt exactly depend on transit pax.

Abu Dhabi is a two hour drive west from Dubai. Abu Dhabi is a good business city and thus you will have the business pax who will fly business and first class. Dubai does have lots of business, but Dubai and Emirates depend on tourists to survive. Business pax flying O&D from Abu Dhabi dont really want to drive to DXB. They would choose from their local carriers like Gulf or Etihad.

Sharjah is a twenty minute drive east from Dubai. It is closer to Dubai than Baltimore is to Washington. Air Arabia is a discount airline that, like the US or Euro locos, takes advantage of cheap facilities in Sharjah. I suspect that many of their pax are fleeing high fares at DXB.



Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
User currently offlineEkairliner From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2004, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7965 times:

In reply to BA and sleak76, i am not aware of air arbia and etihad condition as being subsidized by the governemnt or not, but i suspect they might have been as they just have started, but Emirates is NOT subsidized by the government anymore, for the last few years there has been no cash injected by the government into emirates, so if you don't have any proof don't just come up with things you don't know and you hear or assume is right.

User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7946 times:

Depends where they flying to? I think there´s always a demand for many planes during Ramadan and fuel cost can´t be that bad?
Why not the B7E7, I guess that Boeing would love to get customer in this part of the world...



25 DfwRevolution : Why not the B7E7, I guess that Boeing would love to get customer in this part of the world... As great of an airplane as the 7E7 will likely be, if yo
26 BA : Ekairliner, I know for certainty that Etihad and Air Arabia are both government subsidized. Nwacrew, Since the Emirates apparently have BILLIONS of do
27 Horus : and include destinations like Cairo I'll only believe it when it happens. Their original plan was to start CAI flight on December 19th, but it never m
28 Sleak76 : EKAirliner Not sure why you got all upset at BA and myself for what we wrote. If you would like to believe that Emirates is self-sustaining then, by a
29 Post contains images Vimanav : You know Sleak76... I fully endorse your views reflected in reply 28 - couldn't agree more... and I won't ask you for a source rgds//Vimanav
30 Post contains images Horus : Vimanav and Sleak76 agreeing, now that's something I never thought I'd see...hahahaha
31 Post contains images Sleak76 : Vimanav Thanks for the vote of confidence Horus, hehe.. suprises come in different form. Cheers to you both
32 Post contains images Captain777 : Now thats nice....We only need Vimanav to agree with me on anything now
33 B747-437B : We only need Vimanav to agree with me on anything now If you posted something worth agreeing about, perhaps he would oblige.
34 Post contains images Sleak76 : Captain777 Cheers to you too
35 SR 103 : Vimanav, I really wish you could just tell them who your source is. I'd love to see their reaction if you did! SR 103
36 Sleak76 : SR103 BTW, I think your post would be better suited in that thread. I don't think we should discuss that issue in here. But seeing that you did, if I
37 Post contains links David_itl : Sleak76, is PriceWaterhouseCoopers suitably independent and international for you? They do the auditing for EK. Taken from this profile of Maurice Fla
38 Sleak76 : David Even when i wrote independant accounting firm I still had my doubts that I would 100% agree that the government isn't pumping money in. You know
39 Captain777 : Ibtelashna wellah ib hela salfa Well please don't let us start this thread agian in this post. Cheers Sleak76
40 Teahan : An article in today's Seattle Times suggests a mix of A330s, A340s and A380s to be announced tomorrow. J.
41 Horus : Are you sure Teahan? No 777s? Horus
42 Post contains links Teahan : Doesn't look like it Horus: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2001982456_farnsales18.html J.
43 Horus : Thanks for the link Teahan. I'm surprised they're going for the A380 too. That would leave 3 carriers with bases literally just miles apart operating
44 EurostarVA : Although I am very confident in Emirates' future, I am very doubtful about any prospects for success for Etihad. Some of my reasons: 1- There is no we
45 StargoldLHR : Maybe just maybe the man on the street on the gulf has a bit more money and wants to travel, so as overall personal lifestyle and wealth increases in
46 Sleak76 : they want to fly more like the rest of us??? Care to elaborate abit, StargoldLHR?
47 Post contains images Horus : Stargold, I'm half English half Egyptian, so am I 'us' or 'them'? Horus
48 ACAfan : Although personally, I believe that it is only a matter of time before Gulf Air scales down to become the national carrier of Bahrain only (which I su
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