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Farnborough Pushes For Idea Of Larger Version 747  
User currently offlineSquirrel83 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5530 times:

Just thought this was a interesting article . .

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=businessNews&storyID=5698860
LONDON (Reuters) - Boeing Co is seeing increased demand for its 747 jumbo jet and building a larger version remains a possibility, Alan Mulally, chief executive of Boeing Commercial Airplanes, said on Sunday.

"We're actually feeling upward pressure to build more 747s," he said, adding that some carriers were interested in having Boeing build a stretched version of the 747 which would seat more passengers and offer greater range.

"There are some airlines that want us to stretch it (adding more seats) and increase the gross weight and the range."

Mulally, speaking to reporters on the eve of the Farnborough air show near London, said Boeing continued to see only limited interest in the market for a plane as large as rival Airbus's 555-seat A380, due for delivery in 2006.

However he said that increasing demand in the freight market was part of the reason some carriers have expressed an interest in a slightly larger 747.

"We're seeing the most interest in Asia," Mulally said.

Boeing's next all-new plane is the 7E7 Dreamliner due in 2008. The U.S. planemaker has received no firm orders for the plane, though it has reached tentative deals for 62 of the mid-sized commercial jets.

"It's as good as a firm contract to us," Mulally said of the likelihood that such tentative deals will translate into firm orders.

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineStargoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 5308 times:

Boeing "yap", "yap","yap".... yawn


"we see demand and think we might build a bigger plane but actually were not seeing any demand and dont think it's worth doing".

I can make a statement like this tooo....

It might rain tomorrow, but on the other hand it might not.



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineAvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2472 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5245 times:

StargoldLHR, I'm not sure what the nature of your critique is, aside from sniping at the on-again, off-again nature of possible 747 developments over the last few years. This has been dictated by the market, over which Boeing has no control. 747 sales were in a down cycle a number of years, putting the brakes on development. Now, it seems, there are signs of recovery from carriers that will need a larger airplane but not as large as the A380. It's reasonable to assume a stretched and otherwise improved 747 will find some number of takers, particularly for the freighter. So many seem to accept that the 747 is near the end of the road but that's not necessarily true. Steady air travel growth, especially in Asia, will likely provide demand for both the A380 and an enlarged 747. Since that market will probably not be big enough for TWO A380 sized planes for many years, it makes sense for Boeing to keep selling a 747 derivative as long as possible in the next smaller size niche. Prior 747 upgrade proposals were shot down due to lack of demand, not Boeing indecisiveness. If demand is legitimately there, they'll build a new variant.

User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5196 times:

Funny, I'm sure Boeing saw increased frequency, point to point in the market and thus designed the 7E7. Maybe Airbus have it right after all.


No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlineAvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2472 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5123 times:

Maybe they're BOTH right but Boeing didn't see nearly as large a market for very large airplanes and thus didn't see the wisdom of building a direct competitor to the A380. The smaller market they envision can be addressed in the sub-500 seat size class with a stretched 747 which avoids going directly against the 380. Since they see larger growth in the mid-size, 200-250 passenger size class, that is a more relevant area for them to invest their R&D dollars, right now. In time, the superjumbo market will likely grow enough to make a true Boeing entry viable but it won't happen for a long time. Right now, for Boeing, the 7E7 is a far better bet than a true A380 competitor.

User currently offlineB-HOP From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2000, 650 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5103 times:

Don't forget product life cycle theory, a product like 747 last for about 20 years. Remember the first -400 came out in 1989, by then the -200 is about 19 years old. By 2008-09, -400 would be about 20 years old and it would be just the right time for a new/updated verison to come out, at that time with new elements from 757/67. By early/mid 80's, the classis are also selling slowly, in some years, down to single digit. I am positive that the new verison of 747, with elements from 777/E7, would be selling like hotcakes by early next decade.Long live Jumbo!!!

Regards
Kev



Live life to max!!!
User currently offlineB-HOP From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2000, 650 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4981 times:

Sorry, for -400, things from 757/767, the new verison have elements from 777/E7


Live life to max!!!
User currently offlineElwood64151 From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2477 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4857 times:

Seems like Boeing is doing what every successful company is doing: Niche marketing.

The 7E7 will be in that size-gap between the 737-900/A321 and the A330/A340 that is currently occupied by the 757/67 and the A300. The 777 is between the the A330 and 744. The 747-stretch (if built) will be between the 744 and A380.

Looks like both companies have their respective niches and have good, potentially profitable ideas.

Remember that if MDD hadn't done away with the DC-8, or had re-engineered it as a twin, they might have had a competitor to the 757/67, thus giving airlines an option and boosting MDD sales. If that had happened, perhaps MDD would still be around today. Boeing saw that niche, and sold thousands of aircraft to fill it. MDD didn't see it, and as a result sales suffered.

It's called a Brand Extension strategy (or as close as it gets for this industry): Same Brand, New Market. Except in this case, it will simply be a line extension, since the 747-stretch will be in basically the same market (Jumbo Jet) as the 747-400.



Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
User currently offlineHa763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3665 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4836 times:
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The 747 update they are talking about would only increase 3-class capacity to around 450 pax, still 100 less than the A380 and still wouldn't be in the A380's size class. Also, it is the freight market that is pushing for a slightly bigger 747, which means freighters. The pax version would just piggyback on the freighter development.

User currently offlineSquirrel83 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4816 times:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/latestnewsstory.cfm?storyID=3579067&thesection=business&thesubsection=latest

there is another link ~ for another story ~


User currently offlineElwood64151 From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2477 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4815 times:

Ha763:

You're right. But right now, freight is a quickly growing market, and the 747 has been an industry-leading bird in that market for some time.

Ford has its engines shipped air-freight because it costs them less to ship them more expensively if they don't have to carry hundreds of engines in inventory the way they would if they shipped them by rail or truck. And there are numerous other examples of firms choosing the higher-retail-cost but lower-investment-cost "Just-In-Time" systems that air freight allows.

Even Boeing is having major 717 and 777 components shiped via air freight rather than by ship, because the savings on investment is greater than the cost of shipping... I believe Airbus does the same thing with some of their models.



Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 997 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4781 times:

Seems like Boeing is doing what every successful company is doing: Niche marketing.

More over, they are giving customers who are looking at the A380, but still sitting on the fence, a low-risk alternative. Some major 744 customers (like BA, NW, JAL, maybe even Qantas to an extent) are questioning if they could opperate a 550 passenger aircraft economically, but at the same time, nobody wants to replace a 20 year-old aircraft with a 20 year-old design.

If the 747-Adv is up to date, has a slight growth in capacity, and has a tad more range, I'd expect a few customers to head back to Boeing. And if the 747-Adv has some system/engine and avionics commonality with the 7E7, kudos to Boeing.

Remember that if MDD hadn't done away with the DC-8, or had re-engineered it as a twin, they might have had a competitor to the 757/67, thus giving airlines an option and boosting MDD sales. If that had happened, perhaps MDD would still be around today.

I've often wondered why MDD didn't have a product between the MD-80 and the DC-10. Manufactures who go head-to-head rarely come out alive. This is very difficult for both Airbus and Boeing as the only way to have a complete aircraft portfolio is to have almost identical aircraft. Some markets, like the 100-200 seat narrowbody market, can sustain both the A320 and 737NG, but it becomes complicated with widebody and superjumbo aircraft.

Both must tread carefully or they risk building an unfavorable product, and seceeding marketshare and profit to the other. This is why I felt the 747-500/600 were terrible ideas.

Funny, I'm sure Boeing saw increased frequency, point to point in the market and thus designed the 7E7. Maybe Airbus have it right after all.

Boeing predicted a market for about 500 superjumbos and maybe 3,000 7E7-sized aircraft, while Airbus predicted almost the exact opposite. At that point, Boeing said "have fun with the A380," scuttled the 747-500/600, started on the Sonic Cruiser, ditched that for efficency, and four years later the 7E7 began collecting firm orders.


User currently offlineKlkla From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 941 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4665 times:

Boeing only has three options:

#1 - Get out of the jumbo jet business and give all that business to Airbus
#2 - Design an all new jumbo
#3 - Modify the current jumbo

Option 1 would be bad for the morale and prestige of the company and would ensure Airbus' success.

Option 2 is out becuase the cost is too high and they are too far behind Airbus. In addition, if their projections for that market are correct splitting the possible sales couldn't generate enough sales to make a profit.

Option 3 wouldn't be that expensive (relatively) and they could probably maintain a lot of current 747 customers that can't afford the A380 or are on the fence. This could probably siphon off just enough A380 orders to keep the Airbus project from making a profit. And if Boeing is successful in preventing Airbus from receiving future subsidies for new aircraft design there would not be enough money for them to develop new aircraft in the future... end result being Boeing's return to position as dominant aircraft manufacturer against a weakened Airbus.

So, in my opinion Boeng has no choice but to choose option 2.


User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10804 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3353 times:

100% right. Boeing has no other option than to launch a 747NG.
A completely new successor (and rival to the A380) would be economical suicide, a withdrawal from the Jumbo-market a suicide imagewise and the severest defeat Boeing could suffer.
Good for Boeing is that real strong demand for 744 replacements will be coming in when the 744 gets old around 2010, enough time to lauch a new version still.


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