DIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 30 Posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2695 times:
I was just looking at a business trip back east, from Denver, and came up with this:
Mon 23-Aug-04
Denver (DEN)
Depart 7:50 am to Atlanta (ATL)
Arrive 12:36 pm
Terminal N 1207 mile(s)
(1942 km)
Duration: 2hr 46mn
Flight: 1700
Economy/Coach Class, Boeing 737-700, 90% on time
I thought the Denver route was to be served exclusively with the 717. Looks like Airtran liked the performance of the 737 on the Denver route and wants to put it back on the route. Anybody know something here?
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Gr8slvrflt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1583 posts, RR: 16 Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2625 times:
Currently the 737 is operating two flights a day to DEN from ATL (the 3rd and sometimes 4th use 717s) and a couple a day from ATL to MCO and TPA. Beginning in September they will also be flying two a day ATL-SFO and one ATL-LAX.
PHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7253 posts, RR: 25 Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2621 times:
I thought the Denver route was to be served exclusively with the 717. Looks like Airtran liked the performance of the 737 on the Denver route and wants to put it back on the route. Anybody know something here?
I believe that the DEN-ATL routes may have been proven to be too long of a range for the 717; I thought that these routes in the past have been handled by the Ryan International A320s. Any 717 flights to/from DEN, to my knowledge, would most likely be going to/from DFW.
I could be mistaken on this.
[Edited 2004-07-22 17:30:56]
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
DIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 30 Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2612 times:
No, no. DEN has recieved nonstop flights from ATL with thew 717. . .it was like that for a very long time, from the very beginning of DEN service by Airtran. Yes, it was Airtran's longest 717 route.
Thanks for the info.
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Quickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2464 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2473 times:
I think the 737 is better on fuel for the longer flights. The 717 can reach most of the routes, but is a better jet for the short hops up and down the east coast, Florida and the midwest. They are probably just trying to use each type where it can be the most efficient.
JayDavis From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2000 posts, RR: 17 Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2344 times:
You know what really gets me? In this month's Airways magazine, the president of AirTran, Joe Leonard is quoted as saying, "we just can't get the numbers to work on the winglets". That just boggles my mind. How can he say that? You (AirTran) cannot spend $1 million on a set of winglets that will save you 5% to 8% of your fuel burn on each flight? I could understand, possibly, if they were going to do short hauls with the 737's, but that isn't the case. They were mainly intended to do the long hauls and replace Ryanair.
Seems to me that Southwest, ATA, and I even think Aloha, could make the numbers work with the winglets, why can't AirTran? I would think that anything that WN did, I'd certainly want to try it also, because you know WN looked at that issue backwards, forwards, upside down, etc.....before they decided to add the winglets.
Just a really stupid decision to not put them on the planes if you ask me.
Airtran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3639 posts, RR: 12 Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2337 times:
Look at the route map. Most of our flying is under two hours. It doesn't make sense to put the winglets on the planes. Word has it that when we option up to the 737-800, the 800 will have the winglets.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
Pilottim747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1607 posts, RR: 5 Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2274 times:
AirTran has told the Metropolitan Airports Commission (MAC) that MSP will receive B737-700 service towards the end of the year. My guess is that MSP-MCO will no longer by FLs longest B717 flight.
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 26 Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2269 times:
You know what really gets me? In this month's Airways magazine, the president of AirTran, Joe Leonard is quoted as saying, "we just can't get the numbers to work on the winglets".
Think about it....its all about WEIGHT and balance.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
JayDavis From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2000 posts, RR: 17 Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2202 times:
No AirframeAS, it is NOT about WEIGHT and balance.............
Are you saying that WN and ATA have problems with weight and balance on their aircraft that have the winglets? I don't think so. The winglets DO cost more obviously and they aren't just giving them away, yet I would think that over the course of the aircraft's lifetime, the winglets could cause their fuel savings to be over $1 million dollars, which is about how much a pair cost these days.
Airtran737, yes, most of your flying is under two hours, yet you can't tell me that all these new 737's are going to be flying two hour segments. These new aircraft are going to be used for longer hauls to such city pairs as
ATL-LAX, ATL-LAS, ATL-SFO, etc.........the winglets save money. It is that simple and for AirTran's management team to not get them, makes no sense to me. A bad decision in my opinion.
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2184 times:
You (AirTran) cannot spend $1 million on a set of winglets that will save you 5% to 8% of your fuel burn on each flight?
First off, nobody has ever claimed 5% to 8%, even Boeing.
Secondly, obviously Leonard doesn't believe they will get those savings, or he would have ordered them.
JayDavis From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2000 posts, RR: 17 Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2112 times:
I swear I have seen the ads on the back of Air Transport World and the other mags such as Airliners and Airways and am almost certain they claim a fuel savings of that amount.............no matter what, to me, if they save fuel, they save $$$$.............you would just write off the cost of them over a longer period of time.
As I said earlier, if WN believes they can help save WN some $$$$, I'd be ordering them on my planes also............copycat or not...........
Maybe they wanted to spend that $1 million they save on each aircraft for that wonderful new paint scheme somebody came up with....
AA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5340 posts, RR: 11 Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2103 times:
Sorry, Gigneil, everybody claims 5% or 6%. Aviation Partners Boeing claims this. The copy of their ad on August 2004 issue of AIRWAYS reads, "Blended winglets cut soaring fuel costs by up to 5%."
Jay, I am inclined to agree with you, though not as strongly. Southwest put them on, and we all know they fly their -700s on short (as in, LESS THAN ONE HOUR) hops like BWI-CMH. WN has very few transcon routes, compared to the large number of -700s they are fitting winglets to. But if WN figured it made cents, why didn't AirTran jump for it? They're doing the ATL-LAX/etc stuff... oh well, it's their money.
TriJetFan1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 8 Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2094 times:
Doesnt FL fly Atlanta-Moline/Quad City on a 737-700?
Srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16888 posts, RR: 51 Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2092 times:
The #1 reason why AirTran's 737-700s do not have winglets is due to the tight gate layout @ ATL. If they still had everything set up the way it was prior to the 4 gates they added on C in late 1999-early 2000, then they might have gotten them. Those winglets are not cheap, and with space on the ramp at many gates being so tight, they'd probably have to replace several winglets at month if they had them.
JayDavis From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2000 posts, RR: 17 Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2087 times:
That is a terrible reason for not getting the winglets! They could put the 737's down at gates 1 and 2 or whatever those gates are number at the very end of Terminal C, next to that runway...............
Just a dumb move in my opinion...............
You have to realize, even though AirTran has turned it around and is doing quite well, they have a lot of USAirways management on board and lets face it, USAirways management hasn't been doing too well the past few years....
One other thing, when most of the media mentions low cost carriers, they only mention WN and B6..........maybe the media thinks those two are the only ones who are "doing it right" in terms of operational strategy for a LCC?
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 26 Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2055 times:
Just how much does one winglet alone weigh? Probably depends on the type of composite used.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
Vatveng From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 892 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2039 times:
One other thing, when most of the media mentions low cost carriers, they only mention WN and B6..........maybe the media thinks those two are the only ones who are "doing it right" in terms of operational strategy for a LCC?
Southwest and especially JetBlue are media darlings. A lot of the same reporters that wet themselves over JetBlue still think AirTran = ValuJet, and don't bother with them.
But rest assured there's some hack out there just waiting for a small scrap of bad news about JetBlue so he can pounce on them with an Enquirer-style screaming headline about some rumor of a minor screwup.
Vatveng From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 892 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2036 times:
That is a terrible reason for not getting the winglets! They could put the 737's down at gates 1 and 2 or whatever those gates are number at the very end of Terminal C, next to that runway
So restrict the 737 to only 2 gates at the hub, when they will outnumber the 717s in a few years?
Here's my prediction (and this is purely speculation on my part): AirTran has said they are going spend some time beefing up point-to-point schedules between the cities they already serve, bypassing Atlanta. (For example, the new CAK-BOS, PHF-BOS, and DFW-LAX flights.) Since a lot of these flights will likely have lower loads than the connecting flights, the point-to-point schedules will be served by the 717s while the slightly larger 73Gs will take over a majority of the hub flying. This will lead to mostly 73Gs in Atlanta. Again, this is just my opinion, we'll have to wait until a lot more of the 37s are delivered before we see anything like this.
AirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3639 posts, RR: 12 Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2030 times:
Actually Jay AirTran is composed of mostly ex Northwest management. Some guys have been at US, but the vast majority have been boys from NW. Joe Leonard, Jack Smith, JP Dagon, Susan Manfreddi, Stan Gadek, Bob Fornaro, Loral Blinde, and countless station managers are all former NW employees.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
Quickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2464 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2005 times:
Were they not from Eastern before that?
25 Airtran737: Leonard, and Kolski were. I'm not sure about the others.
26 JayDavis: AirTran737, here is what your own web site says about Bob Fornaro. From 1992 to 1998, Fornaro served as senior vice president - planning for US Airway
27 Elwood64151: You know what really gets me? In this month's Airways magazine, the president of AirTran, Joe Leonard is quoted as saying, "we just can't get the numb
28 Airtran737: Did I not say that some of them were at US? They all ended up at NW and formed the good old boys club, and then moved it to FL
29 Srbmod: They've had a few other ex-NW people blow through there, Marilyn Rogers, who was Sr. VP-Customer Service several years back came to FL from NW, and wa
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