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The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much  
User currently offlineZweed From Netherlands, joined Apr 2004, 455 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5311 times:

Ryanair changed the whole avation business in Europe. From being something that was reserved for business travellers and occasional vacations to the mediterranen to being a well known and well used thing. Going for a weekend somewhere else in europe is now possible to an affordable price.

Flying, airplanes and everything that comes with it is no longer that exclusive. This has made lots of airline-geeks upset. Their hobby, the thing that they loved is no longer a unique thing they can keep for themselves. Flying a a common thing in the european society today.
In fact the chance is now bigger that a 45 year old taxi driver with 3 kids has more experience from flying than the bloke who stands at the runway writing up registrations and claims to know everything about the industry.

Face it, just because flying is now as common as taking the train, it doesnt make you less worthy, and you dont have to slag ryanair off and other LCC's to feel better. It just makes you look like a fool.

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBy188b From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 709 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5257 times:

Think again 'zweed'

i personally dislike ryanair because of the appalling way i was treated when i travelled with them.

You are right in some respects though, flying has got more 'common' and with it the lowering of standards of airlines. This is perhaps why some airliners.net members dislike Ryanair which afterall is the king of cheap in the aviation industry.



next flights : BD LHR-TXL J, FR SXF-STN Y, SN BRU-LHR Y, MA LHR-BUD Y, BA BUD-LHR J, BA LCY-SNN-JFK J, BA JFK-LHR J, BA
User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5232 times:

Ryanair changed the whole aviation business in Europe.
That's a little bit (just a little bit) exaggerated - sounds like a self praise from our beloved O'Leary himself. Actually the fully deregulation of the European airline business in 1997 had a bigger impact of the European air travel then FR.

pelican



User currently offlineFinnWings From Finland, joined Oct 2003, 640 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5209 times:

How could I respect the airline which is breaking law in many countries? Misleading marketing and cheating of their customers has caused many warnings from authorities of different countries. They have been in courthouses many times and will be in the future as well...

The way how Ryanair treats their passengers... If it would be possible to pack people in the LD3 containers and load them to aircraft I'm sure Ryanair would do that.

The arrogant behaviour of the management... Unbelievable.

It is true that their prices are low but I really hate the way how Ryanair have achieved those. LCCs are great, I'm not against them in general. It is great that travelling is now possible also people who haven't been able to do it before.

I just cant bear people who break the law and not airlines either. Therefore I'm not going to use Ryanair ever...period.

Best Regards,
FinnWings


User currently offlineGeoffm From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5150 times:

FinnWings, be careful stating mostly unproven allegations like that, it could land you in court!

The times I have flown Ryanair, they have landed me safely at my destination, with my luggage, on time, with friendly service, and at a cheap price. What more could you want? Compare that to full cost airlines which have sent my baggage via Texas, delayed me by hours, sneered at by oh-so-high-and-mighty tarty flight attendants whose biggest fear is breaking their fingernails, and charged a fortune for daring to travel on a day with the letter A in it. Oh, I've had some good flights too, but you always remember the bad ones. Compare that to something like 30 LCC flights where I've never had a bad experience with the one exception of being nearly a whole hour late (EZY).

What is worse about LCC-bashing is many of these people have never actually flown the airline in question. How an earth can you judge something without trying it?

Grrr.

Geoff M.


User currently offlineJaspike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2008, 1 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5142 times:

What is worse about LCC-bashing is many of these people have never actually flown the airline in question. How an earth can you judge something without trying it?
Exactly.. I flew with Ryanair, and had no problems at all. I'd fly with them again. And I don't care what O'Leary says, from a passenger's point of view, it doesn't matter. It's not like he's on each flight being arrogant to passengers.

Tom


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5142 times:

I would argue that Easyjet has done more to change the UK travel market than Ryanair has done, because Easyjet has always been a much greater threat to the existing national carriers than Ryanair was (except for EI, naturally). Easyjet flies to airports served by other carriers, and provides welcome competition, whereas FR broadly speaking specifically avoids airport where there is anything like competition (except Dublin).

I personally will try to avoid flying FR because of their appalling customer service attitude - I fly U2 10-15 times a year, and they suit me just fine - they aren't perfect, but they'll do.


User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5099 times:

Very well said, JGPH1A. I could't agree more. For example, for London-Amsterdam U2 does LGW-AMS, like the big carriers. London-Bilbao they do LGW-BIO, same as BA and IB. FR may do STN-BIQ, which by chance was convenient for me, but they were competing with no one. Is that why FR prefer the smaller airports?

XV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5059 times:

The thing that I hate to hear about is how everyone hates this Mr. O'Leary guy. Of course this guy is arrogant! He is RICH BEYOND YOUR BELIEF! You will never have the amount of money that this guy has, this guy could buy your house, shit this guy could buy your entire block and not even care. Anyone of you people would love to be him and be able to be as "arrogant" as he is. What has he done wrong? He found a new way to run a successful airline and is doing so better than your beloved BA, what is the problem with that?
I believe the reason that most people bash it is because they do not want to fly FR, can you blame them? Most people do not want to be locked in a tube with trash and that is what airlines like FR and WN attract. I personally HATE to fly WN because of the trashy people that fly and the FA's are loud and annoying, BUT that does not mean that WN is a bad company. They are not bad at all they are one of the best just like FR is in Europe, so don't hate the airline hate the trash that boards!



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5061 times:

Zweed:

Ryanair changed the whole avation business in Europe. From being something that was reserved for business travellers and occasional vacations to the mediterranen to being a well known and well used thing. Going for a weekend somewhere else in europe is now possible to an affordable price.

Flying, airplanes and everything that comes with it is no longer that exclusive. This has made lots of airline-geeks upset. Their hobby, the thing that they loved is no longer a unique thing they can keep for themselves. Flying a a common thing in the european society today.
In fact the chance is now bigger that a 45 year old taxi driver with 3 kids has more experience from flying than the bloke who stands at the runway writing up registrations and claims to know everything about the industry.

Face it, just because flying is now as common as taking the train, it doesnt make you less worthy, and you dont have to slag ryanair off and other LCC's to feel better. It just makes you look like a fool.


Face it, it is all going to end in tears. Not for Easyjet, Volare, and the LCCs that treat you well. But O'Leary's cost cutting and corner cutting will sooner or later land him at the mercy of Murphy. And economic Darwinism will sooner or later separate the wheat from the chaff.

You romanticise Ryanair's achievements too much. They did some good things a few years ago but O'Leary's business practices are questionable at best, illegal at worst. Although FinnWings was not specific in his reply, he is right. FR have broken many laws in many countries, and their selection of airports rarely correspond the the city or even the country advertised: Paris-Beauvais, Toulouse-Carcassonne, Düsseldorf-Niederrhein (deemed illegal by the EU Commission), Brussels-Charleroi, Frankfurt-Hahn, Florence-Pisa etc. etc. Easyjet don't shirk the main airports quite as much as Ryanair. And how many destinations do FR offer out of LGW? Just one, Dublin.

I think you'll find that most members of the forum are very much in favour of the LCC principle. I for one am, with about 40 flights of experience on Debonair, Easyjet, GOL, Ryanair and Volareweb.com. Most of them have been pleasant experiences, but Ryanair and O'Leary have given me and a lot of fellow travellers, some who are also on the forum, cause for suspicion since Day One. And increasingly so, I'm finding them no cheaper than the mainstream carriers, and often more expensive. They are no longer an LCC. They are an LQC (Low Quality Carrier).

XV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineWorldoftui From Sweden, joined Aug 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5027 times:

I do not hate Ryanair as such, but I do dislike the man behind it.
In general, and this is just a preference, I do not generally like the whole LCC experience. For me, its about more than cost. Convenience, ease of airport processing, on-board comfort etc are just as important to me.


Mark


User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6144 posts, RR: 34
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5016 times:

I always get a good chuckle from the FR and WN bashers!  Big thumbs up Obviously you represent a very small minority. FR and WN's pax numbers grow every year and they make higher profits than the few major carriers that do -- and that is the name of the game!!

In case you "bashers" haven't figured it out, flying today is just another form of transport - pure and simple. Heck, some flights are even shorter than taking the tube from the LHR to Waterloo Stn. - but at least on FR's flights you can buy some food and use the loo!! Big grin Bottom line - a airline seat is just an airline seat. No one buys a ticket for the food - at least I hope not!! Big grin



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5009 times:

Re: Is that why FR prefer the smaller airports?

The stated reason is that smaller out-of-the-way airports charge lower landing and handling fees, and no doubt this is true. But I suspish that another good reason is to fly where there's no competition (because very few people actually genuinely want to fly there), and create markets artificially by charging extremely low fares, but still make a profit by cutting service back to a minimum.

It seems to be working for him, we have to credit him with that. Ugly suspicions about safety-related cost-cutting will continue as long as FR keep cutting back - the theory (unproven, I hasten to add) being that if they are taking out the window-blinds and the tray tables, what have they removed where we can't see it ? I hope and trust that this is not the case, after all there are FR employees as well as pax on each of their flights. But there's only so much you can take off the pizza before all you're left with is the box.


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4981 times:

There are one or two things about Ryanair (and most other LCCs) that I don't like, but for the most part, they're simply far too unpractical for me to use.

Until the end of last year, I lived in a town from where the next airport was Hannover (HAJ), about a one hour drive away: the only LCC there was HLX, Air Berlin had a few City Shuttle routes from there - but not a single destination that was interesting for me.

Then I moved to Munich for a short time and I could have flown Easyjet - I might have actually done that at one point, but the LH fare to LHR was about EUR 60 lower for that specific weekend, so I chose them instead.

Now I've been living in Frankfurt since May, and I could use FR from Hahn - for which I need to take public transport to the Main Train Station (about 10-12 minutes) to then board a bus (EUR 12 for a oneway ticket) to get me to Hahn in something around 1 hour and 45 minutes...

Or, I could just use one of the trains running about every 10 to 15 minutes to get to the airport here in Frankfurt itself, and have one of the widest choices of airlines and destinations you can find...

So, it's either something between 2 and 2 1/2 hours and EUR 24 for Hahn, or about 25-40 minutes (both times obviously depending on the connection at the train station) and EUR 4 for Frankfurt... not a tough call for me.

I'll probably try our FR at some point, but for now, it's just too much of a hassle for me.

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24923 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4970 times:

I would bet that someone high up in Ryanair reads these forums...


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6144 posts, RR: 34
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4961 times:

the theory (unproven, I hasten to add) being that if they are taking out the window-blinds and the tray tables, what have they removed where we can't see it ? I hope and trust that this is not the case, after all there are FR employees as well as pax on each of their flights. But there's only so much you can take off the pizza before all you're left with is the box.

A window blind is obvously NOT the same as a flight control system so the "unproven" theory is ridiculous. Big grin But big deal that he proposes to do away with tables and blinds -- years ago the legacies did away with amenitity kits for Y paxs that only F/J get now (and they are not nearly as good as they use to be!!!!) FR is offering the pax a choice -- if you really want to pay for a lousy meal on a tray then you can always fly BA.  Big thumbs up



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineLrgt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4935 times:

Well, having flown them once, I would say I was happy with everything except the $300US in excess baggage charges! The bags for the two of us were well within VS's limits crossing the pond, but NOT for FR.

If you pack light, you will enjoy FR!


P.S.: I don't think they will ever 'die', but maybe if they start loosing $$$ they can change their routes around a little and raise their fares a little (maybe to $5 o/w LOL)  Smile



Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
User currently offlineGeoffm From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4930 times:

Sammyhostie, it wouldn't be the first time that somebody has ended up in hot water over statements made on a website! All it takes is the wrong person to read it... Had he used the word "alleged" or equivalent, he would have been fine, but some of the things he has said can be deemed libellious. I don't particularly care what he does, nowt to do with me, it was just a friendly heads-up!

Geoff M.


User currently offlineEurostarVA From Bahrain, joined May 2002, 1296 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4912 times:

maybe because of their cheap corporate identity? desperately needs a change...



If there is a will, there is a way
User currently offlineFinnWings From Finland, joined Oct 2003, 640 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (10 years 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4883 times:

FinnWings, be careful stating mostly unproven allegations like that, it could land you in court!

I doubt that. It isn't anything secret that they have broke the law when advertising here. Finnish consumer authorities warned the compnay twice as they found out that FR broke marketing rules and that was discussed in the media a lot. It is called misleading marketing... Like LVZXV stated above, they have broke the same rules in many countries.

I well understand if someone dislike or like FR or any other airline. People prefer different things and thats only good! Wouldn't it be awful if all people would like same things? FR is cheap, safe and punctual airline so if those are the most important reasons for you when choosing an airline I very well understand if you find FR very good. That is their market segment...

However, I wan't a little bit luxury from my airline even when travelling on economy and therefore I don't prefer LCCs and for me FR is the worst LCC. In my opinion trip should be pleasant and comfortable experience but that is just my opinion and I understand very well if someone disagree...

Overall, it is only good for consumers and aviation industry that we have LCCs and major airlines.

Best Regards,
FinnWings


User currently offlineAirtrainer From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 1557 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4879 times:

Well, I lost my job a few months ago and just said "good bye" to all my travel plans since that time. Hopefully I was lucky enough to find a daytrip CRL-BGY-CRL last month for exactly €30.93 incl all taxes. I would surely think different if I had a lot of money to spend, but in my case I can just say thank you Ryanair. Oh, and by the way, I had a very pleasent flight and was well treated by the crew, so yes I will surely try to fly with them again.

Regards.

Jef



Life is short : eat dessert first !
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6144 posts, RR: 34
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4843 times:

FR broke marketing rules and that was discussed in the media a lot. It is called misleading marketing...

The only reason such a big deal was made about it in the media is because the precious "flag carriers" did not like having competition from the little Irish carrier.  Big thumbs up As Frank said above, Frankfurt-Hahn or Frankfurt-Main, the pax has a choice -- which he/she didn't have before. Same with Barcelona - there is Barcelona-Girona and Barcelona-Reus -- if time is not the major concern both airports are only about 1 hr by bus from Barcelona -- big deal! Does Iberia and BA like it, of course not. They would rather you not know that there is a cheaper option! The ONLY reason why the major airlines have some low fares is because of the LCCs!!



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineFinnWings From Finland, joined Oct 2003, 640 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4824 times:

Planemaker,

I agree with you that now passengers have more choices... sometimes those "secondary" airports might be even closer to the final destinations of passengers than major airports and therefore reduce overall duration of the trip.

However, the misleading marketing problem was that it wasn't clearly visible when FR advertised that they are really flying to those smaller airports, sometimes very far away from the city. Many passengers booked the flights and they didn't see the small print which was hidden somewhere and stated what airport FR really use. Passengers felt that they were cheated and were furious.

Same situations is with all other products as well not only the flights. Customers must clearly know what they are buying without chance for misunderstanding.

Best Regards,
FinnWings

[Edited 2004-07-24 21:25:56]

User currently offlineLtbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13072 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (10 years 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4778 times:

Although I have never used Ryanair, or EasyJet or Southwest, I have used the current generation Frontier (June 1999) and used PeoplExpress several times 1981- 1985, including from EWR-BRU-EWR.
In the USA, some of the LCC's of the past and present often use/used secondary airports in the 'metropolitian' areas to serve that region. JetBlue uses Long Beach instead of LAX, Southwest uses Islip instead of LGA/JFK/EWR (Islip is about 30 miles from the easternmost parts of NYC). Some of the LCC's use major airports, like WN uses LAX, Frontier with DEN or LGA. PeoplExpress used to do the same thing, basing in EWR, which was underutilized in the 1980's and serving smaller cities, airports close to where service would work out and some major airports. One important difference seems that all of these USA based LCC's are/were very careful to specify the true airport, not the 'distant' city like Ryanair does.
The other issue vs Ryanair for A.netters, is that they keep lowering the bar of minimally acceptable service within safety rules and tolarance of pax yet offer unbeatable fares for many. This means that the other airlines also have to cut their service levels to keep their fares competitive. It's like how people want cheaper and cheaper sneakers or clothes, so the manufactures then move their production facilities from the US to Mexico, to Korea, to China, to Vietnam, chasing cheaper and cheaper help. After a time, there is a limit in terms of cost reductions and you start to breach some human ethics. Everybody want cheap fares, but they still want some fairness and to many, Ryanair is being unfair from minimal service, going to way out of the way airports and so on.


User currently offlineGeoffm From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (10 years 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4768 times:

In the UK the adverts *do* show the airport they serve, albeit in small text. If you book on their website it very clearly states the destination airport (eg Malmo rather than Copenhagen). Was that not the case in Finland?

In fact the law in the UK states that adverts like "50% off! Selected items only", the second part has to be as large as the first part. But all the time shops flout this law by printing the "selected items only" in tiny text. And they get away with it. Is it this aspect which the Finns got heavy handed with (rightly so, too!)?

RE allegations - you made several statements, only a few of which had been substantiated in law, the rest were, with all due respect, still rumours or the like, which was why I used the word "mostly"!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Geoff M.


25 Leskova : Geoffm, FR actually did the same here for a while, advertising Hahn as Frankfurt, Lübeck as Hamburg, Girona as Barcelona... Didn't last long, though
26 Qantas777 : i just hate how common people fly nowadays. I liked it when it was reserved for non-common people.
27 Post contains images Planemaker : Yes, mankind has been on a downhill slope ever since that crazy Henry Ford made automobiles affordable for the "common people!" And then Boeing had to
28 Post contains images WGW2707 : My opposition to Ryanair is based on three points: 1. Dangerous CEO: Michael O'Leary is clearly a destructive lunatic, a madman who enjoys causing suf
29 StargoldLHR : Ryanair claims to be low fares... compare fares for travel next weekend on just about any route flying at the SAME TIME as any other airline on that s
30 Post contains images FinnWings : WGW2707, Excellent post and very well said! I agree with you... Also one reason why Ryanair might have troubles in the future is the changing market.
31 Post contains images Tasha : leskova: "Didn't last long, though - because German law is also quite clear on that: if you say you're flying from Frankfurt, you had better land in F
32 Leskova : Tasha, in the case of Hahn the problem is that there is no train service there: there are plans, but I guess that it'll be something around 5-10 years
33 LVZXV : WGW2707: Very eloquently put! You put your finger on just about every odious trait of Mr. O'Leary. It's funny how his name is almost an anagram of "O'
34 Starlionblue : The bags for the two of us were well within VS's limits crossing the pond, but NOT for FR. Bag limits across the pond are much higher than for any int
35 Post contains images Planemaker : (... I need to check into the insane asylum...) Thank you! At least you do have a slight inkling that what you wrote is hysterical and unsubstatiated
36 LVZXV : Planemaker: 2 questions: 1. How many times have you flown on Ryanair? 2. How many LCCs do you know(for comparative purposes)? With any airline you fly
37 Ssides : I have flown Ryanair several times, and I must say that I never felt "taken advantage of" or "misled." I knew they flew in and out of STN, and that th
38 F.pier : I flew FR a lot of times and I'm going to fly them in september. I'm very happy with them from every point of view and I think that all the things you
39 Aa757first : total elimination of virtually all creature comforts You're right. But, no one is forcing you to fly Ryan Air. When you fly on Ryan, you know your kn
40 Kl911 : I'll fly FR whenever it fits in my schedule, or just for a weekend somewhere. I just love the airline, always friendly service onboard, and I've never
41 Post contains images Geoffm : LVZXV, you asked for it! ;-p If I travel on a train for 8 hours, I don't expect to get fed. So I buy something on board or take my own. Which is exact
42 KAUST : Okay now for a stupid question from an ignorant newbie.... what country operates Ryanair? I am under the impression they are from Ireland? Or are they
43 UA777222 : I'm not sure where. My sister just flew them and will again. She said it was "WAY SKETCHY!!" but then again if they aren't there for her and serving h
44 Planemaker : Face it, just because flying is now as common as taking the train, it doesnt make you less worthy, and you dont have to slag ryanair off and other LCC
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