Gearup From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 578 posts, RR: 1 Posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2204 times:
This probably has been asked many times however, with the sad demise of the old T1 parking garage, is there a location on or near YYZ where one can comfortably observe movements without been harassed by security etc?
Captaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 58 Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2169 times:
There are a few spots where you could go to watch aircraft movements without being harassed by the cops. Really, the key is to stay off airport property, and go to a spot such as at Wendy's on Airport Rd, if they are using runway 23 for arrivals. To be honest, the authorities have been much more relaxed lately. Whether this is a result of a generally more relaxed mood, or because they know in the summer time they will have far too many people around to kick out, I don't know. People are currently spotting at places such as FedEx, or then near Field Aviation when 15L is in use, and they aren't getting hassled too much.
Enjoy the summer spotting season while you can!
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
Olympus69 From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 1737 posts, RR: 8 Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2150 times:
People are currently spotting at places such as FedEx, or then near Field Aviation when 15L is in use, and they aren't getting hassled too much.
I was at FedEx yesterday (Friday) afternoon when the Peel police came along. There were 2 of them - a man and a woman, and they were very polite, saying they were just checking IDs. One took my drivers licence to their car and brought it back after a few minutes, saying "No problem".
Lnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1588 posts, RR: 17 Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days ago) and read 2137 times:
I find if you're generally nice to the Peel Regional, they're good to you.
The only time I've been asked to leave was in the spring-time, (by a VERY arrogant "chip-on-my-shoulder" cop, who looked bored to death and had nothing better to do) and once while I was in the in-field area. (They can ask me to leave there, after all, it is airport property)
Additionally, if you are in the area when El-Al comes in, be forewarned. They have their own security detail that has NO qualms in being rude / adamant that you leave immediately. -- Thankfully they were nice to me, but I've heard from others where they weren't so nice to them.
Other than that, just be nice to the cops if they come by, and you'll be fine.
Ba97 From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 377 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2110 times:
I watch planes from Carlingview (Aviation World) and over towards the golf course also.
Lnglive1011yyz you raise a couple of points I never have encountered and not sure how I would act.
The "bad mood cop". Being parked at the side of a road and standing at the side of a road for less than 3 hours is not a violation of municipal laws. Under what jurisdiction or right would police be able to tell you to leave if you are on the road allowance and not private property? Any encounters I have had I have been in a spot with my twin 6 year olds and things are friendly. I respect their concerns.
The one that really confuses me is what authority does an El Al rent a cop have to tell me where to go?
there is economy class, business class, first class...then Concorde..pure class
Ba97 From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 377 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2037 times:
Nothing like playing golf at Royal Woodbine as they come into land over your head. Pure golfers curse. I am in no hurry and losing a few into the woods or water is worth the view. The sound of the "swoosh" whipping sound after they pass..... Unfortunately carrying a camera is pushing it too far.
On the GTAA- I wonder how far the property lines extend.
there is economy class, business class, first class...then Concorde..pure class
Lnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1588 posts, RR: 17 Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2024 times:
BA97 --
As for hte 'bad cop', the properties where I normally stop (as well as most of us spotters) is actuallly on airport grounds.
The road near FedEx that runs parallell to 15L/R, even though it is not fenced in, or anything, actually belongs to the GTAA, so they thru Peel Regional, can ask us to leave for any reason, or even no reason at all.
The issue OFF airport land, is of course, tresspassing (parking in business parking lots that you aren't actually doing business with can be constituted as tresspassing if they want to get fickle) as well as "no stopping' laws on the roads, almost has our hands tied. -- If you're lucky to find a location that will allow you to park on their property (such as aviation world, etc) then that's great!
As for the El-Al security, again, same thing.. the times I've been stopped, I have been on airport property (albeit, a Public access road).
Again, I've said this once before. The GTAA could easily rectify a lot of this by creating 'spotting zones' for the spotters. The hobby is growing exponentially and the 'occasional' spotters just will *Not* go away. Instead of working with the public, they've opened a pandoras box.
MartinairYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 1209 posts, RR: 7 Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2025 times:
(by a VERY arrogant "chip-on-my-shoulder" cop, who looked bored to death and had nothing better to do)
I had one like that once too.... pulled up behind us.. I got out to take some photos and he beeped at me and with his finger told me to come over.... why I wanted to kill him. He wan't even Peel Regional.... but instead was "YYZ Police"... The bastards.
Oh by the way, the reason was an El-Al takeoff approaching... what a surprise Came back when it was gone... he passed by a couple times and didn't even stop. Freak.......
what authority does an El Al rent a cop have to tell me where to go?
It seems they have an agreement *cough*$$$$$*cough* to the police at their Major airports to highten security for them.... The authority? 0
Oh BA97, did you fly BA97 YYZ-JFK? If so, please contact me as I would like to chat about the flight... it was great! I also think I've seen you a few times on Silver Dart Dr.
Olympus69 From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 1737 posts, RR: 8 Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days ago) and read 1971 times:
The road near FedEx that runs parallell to 15L/R, even though it is not fenced in, or anything, actually belongs to the GTAA, so they thru Peel Regional, can ask us to leave for any reason, or even no reason at all.
That is just not true. I have a map, published by the GTAA, that has their property lines marked on it. It shows quite clearly that Bramalea Road, running alongside the FedEx facility, is not on their property.
Also, when they put up new, higher, fences a few years ago, why would they not put the fence on the west side of the road, with a gate closer to Derry Road if it was on their property?
Lnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1588 posts, RR: 17 Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1944 times:
Olympus,
I've seen the exact same map you're referring to. I only had that confirmed by a GTAA security guard (one of the ones that drives around in those "Airside/Groundside" vehicles.. He stated that the property line stopped on the west side curb of Bramalea. So, therefore, the parking area that we park at, actually belongs to the GTAA --> According to this security guy. Agreed, it would have been smart to put a fence there, but I suppose they figured it wouldn't be a security risk to leave it open, therefore opening this pandoras box of "where can we/can't we go".
I guess we'll never really know, unless they close the road down permanently, or someone has to contest it somewhere legally haha.
All-in-all, if we respect the property, do not do things that are suspicious, and act responsibly and courteously to ANY official (GTAA/Peel Regional, etc) then there shouldn't be a problem. It's the cocky a-holes that talk back to the cop or give attitude that get the rest of us kicked out of places where we spot from..
AirbusfanYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2002, 1406 posts, RR: 29 Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1944 times:
Sounds like time for an update on yyzspotter.
After a very promising spring from local authorities to the initiative, things have gotten bogged down in some "red tape". Obviously our ambitious plan to have everything in place for this summer have not been realised.
However, there is some very positive news. Certain major areas of agreement have been reached. This will eliminate the inconsistent responses from the authorities, and generate a trusting, and complementary working relationship with spotters.
More details will follow on the website http://www.yyzspotter.com soon.
Everything will be place for the entire 2005 spotting season.
A special thanks to all those people who have emailed me with their interest and requests to join. You have not been forgotten, there is a lot of work going on behind the scenes. Thank you for your patience.
Lnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1588 posts, RR: 17 Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1926 times:
AirbusfanYYZ,
SOrry for my ignorance, but can you enlighten me as to what your 'initiative' is?
I've been to your website a few times, but I haven't heard anything about an initiative from a group of people yet.... Can you enlighten me, and anyone else who may be in the dark too?
Captaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 58 Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1914 times:
1011yyz, the idea of yyzspotter at the time of its inception was to work in conjunction with the authorities and come up with a game plan for spotting at the airport. The initiative started with one level, which I will let Airbusfan give out if he wishes, who said that in order to achieve anything, an official group would have to be created. Really, this does not mean that "yyzspotters" would have special rights over other spotters, or to create an elitist group, but rather have a group that would work in connection with the GTAA and the different levels of police at the airport. Remember, that includes both Peel Regional Police, and also the RCMP. If they know what we are doing there, plus there is a proper protocol, and respect between spotters and the authorities, we can get a lot further, IMHO.
In some respects, we (mostly Airbusfan really) have been able to get some accomplished, but we still have a ways to go in order to get something official in the works. If you see me sometime at the airport, stop and say hi.
Regards, Nuno.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
AWspicious From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1873 times:
In as much as securing the airport perimeter is top priority, the greatest hindrance to us spotters is the amount of litter that is left behind by a lot of people who frequent the spotting areas. Those charged with the task of securing the areas have discussed this issue with me, and as far as we can surmise, there doesn't seem to be a simple solution to the problem. This too is part of the YYZspotter.com initiative.
I don't understand how people can toss out their juice bottles, fast food wrappers... condoms, etc... making the area look like a pigsty, then they wonder why Peel Region and GTAA dislike them being in those areas. We really need to put an end to the litter problem, and I believe part of the solution is for we, the dedicated spotters, to discourage others from littering. Because, after all, their bad habit is ruining (one of) our favorite pastimes.
Olympus69 From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 1737 posts, RR: 8 Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1863 times:
He stated that the property line stopped on the west side curb of Bramalea. So, therefore, the parking area that we park at, actually belongs to the GTAA
If that is actually the case it makes absolutely no sense for GTAA to build the new fence on the east side of Bramalea instead of the west side. It also means that one could park elsewhere - in one of the FedEx lots for instance, and then walk down Bramalea on the grass on the west side. Technically one would then be trespassing on York Skeet Club property, unless one took out a membership in the YSC - then one could sit on the "spotters hill" and thumb ones nose at Peel Police or GTAA security
Olympus69 From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 1737 posts, RR: 8 Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1857 times:
I don't understand how people can toss out their juice bottles, fast food wrappers... condoms, etc... making the area look like a pigsty,
They do it because they're slobs, Tony. I suspect that almost all the garbage is left by people who bring their families out for the afternoon, or people who come out after dark for reasons that have nothing to do with watching airplanes. Talking to these kinds of people won't get you anywhere. They'll just tell you to f**k off, and mind your own business.
However, if you want to go down by FedEx on a Saturday night and shine a flashlight around the cars that are parked there, looking for dumped garbage, be my guest. I hope your medical insurance is paid up
Lnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1588 posts, RR: 17 Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1831 times:
The garbage issue has been a major concern of mine..
It's disgusting. People don't realize how dangerous that can be, especially at that moment of the take-off roll or landing..
I've often yelled out "HEY! That's not a garbage" and usually the person will say "oh, I'm sorry" and they'll pick it up. If you 'look' like a regular, they tend to listen, of course, depending on the person you're discussing it with.
Perhaps having some visible garbage bins that would be regularly cleaned would help the problem, but again, they don't want to encourage people to go there.
I distinctly remember the Boeing/MD parking lot when those bins would get full. I suppose no one really was responsible for cleaning those bins, and they would over-flow, and that would just encourage people to just toss their garbage over-side their window.
It is disgusting, we shouldn't be afraid to talk down to people who are doing this, as they are ultimately ruining our opportunities to spot easily.
AirbusfanYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2002, 1406 posts, RR: 29 Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1788 times:
Thanks Captaingomes for responding, my internet here has been acting up.
Longlive1011yyz, the program will provide you with identification which will be honoured by the local authorities.
However, it doesn't obviously grant the holder immunity from stupidity. We still need to respect the law.
Another example is say, if a particular location on airport property like the infield is overwhelmed with spotters we may be asked to leave. Obviously if there is a unique or rare visitor to YYZ there may be exceptions. But all in all the process we have been working on is to allow a more consistent spotting environment.
Things like this are usually slow to implement (especially since I have a regular job too ) as it takes time to build up the trust and respect between everyone involved but discussions with the GTAA, PRP and the RCMP look good and we should have an amicable arrangement in place soon.
MartinairYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 1209 posts, RR: 7 Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1765 times:
I'd like to state my opinion on this.
He at YYZ we need a non-profit free-of-charge organization that is started or overtaken by the local authorities (The BAA in LHR's case) and who see spotters as people who can be trusted and useful.
Even though I would love that to happen, right now, with the authorities we have I just don't see this happening. Loads of people, including myself, are just not willing to pay a fee of $50/yr lets say, for hassle-free spotting. Especially if you can only make it down once or twice every two months.
YYZspitter has been a good start but higher ranks in the GTAA should be their main focus. They run the airport, and even though they are money-hogs, you may be able to get a few tips on how to pull them around it from the BAA.... maybe get their rules and offer the GTAA the same?
It's disgusting. People don't realize how dangerous that can be, especially at that moment of the take-off roll or landing..
I agree, the garbase is uttrocious and it is a reason that police don't like spotters"" (if you can call some that) around FedEx. It looks like the local GTAA garbage dump, and is not starting to improve..... The only was to fix it is determination and work. Physically. Once YYZspotter becomes a success, a meeting should be formed up to pick up ALL the garbage from FedEx, and make it into a nice area with garbage bins, and maybe even a picnic table at a later date.
The GTAA and PRP shouldn't be expected to suggest anything and if you provide them with the cleanup FedEx idea, they may be slightly more swayed.
Chelsea Football Club supporter.
25 Captaingomes: A few notes on Martin's post. The BAA idea costs money to join if I recall correctly. It is yet not clear whether the YYZSpotter membership will cost
26 Canadi>nBoy: Are you all planning to, ugh, actually pick up this garbage, or will you out-source for this clean up? I should think you would hire others to clean u
27 Canadi>nBoy: "I agree, the garbase is uttrocious and it is a reason that police don't like spotters" And it would seem that someone's spelling is equally uttrociou
28 Captaingomes: LOL Canadi>nBoy, good food and drinks will be a top priority of YYZSpotter! Oh, speaking of which, damn it, go check out http://www.airliners.net/disc
29 MartinairYYZ: you can't comment on whether we've gone high up enough or not Did I??? NO I just said that higher ranks should be the focus.... if they currently are
30 MartinairYYZ: Canadi>n Boy..... Newly arrived non-English speaking immigrants can be found for 50 cents an hour. But ya didn't hear that from moi. YAY!!!!! We can a
31 Canadi>nBoy: CaptainGomes, while I very much appreciate the kind invitation to join the Canadian contingent at your Pearson gathering, I'm afraid I am going to hav
32 Captaingomes: Canadi>nBoy, congratulations! I truly hope things go as well as possible! Again, I'm sad you have a life *sigh* and can't make it on Friday, perhaps i
33 Canadi>nBoy: Well, seeing as how I am so happy and excited, I will scream out this news to all of you whom I've never met. I, Canadi>nboy, and my beautiful, wonder
34 AirbusfanYYZ: BAA is the equivalent to the GTAA here in Toronto. To further Nuno's response, IF YYZSpotter decides to implement a membership fee it will be to cover
35 Captaingomes: I figured that was the news! Very nice, congratulations!!! Since I'm not very poetic, I will leave it at that. I will let somebody more clever in thos
36 Yyz717: I agree, the garbase is uttrocious What? She asked what do do with it, her mother told her "dispose of it and hurry up!" She threw it on the ground an
37 AWspicious: Cdn.Lad.; Bring the in-laws and the wife/mommy-to-be out to YYZ to meet the gang. Don't worry - We won't bite nor swear... nor say the Lord's name in
38 Canadi>nBoy: Guys, allow me to temporaily hijack this thread into "YYZ Excited Daddy"! Thank you, very much, Nuno, Neil & Tony for your good wishes. What can this
39 AirbusfanYYZ: YYZSpotter Ltd. could become quite a conglomerate Cdnboy! Congrats on the exciting news. It is a very special day when your son or daughter is born, j
40 Canadi>nBoy: "just make sure you don't faint." Oh, God. One of my biggest fears. I remember my brother and a couple of male friends telling me their delivery room
41 Captaingomes: Hey, perhaps I could start the first YYZ Dad Spotters Club? Hmmmmm. Yes, you can lead by example and show the families with "uttrocious" behaviour how
42 MartinairYYZ: EVERY 60's and 70's TV theme song known to man) Does this include classic games shows such as "Let's Make A Deal" and "Classic Concentration"? I, Can
43 Canadi>nBoy: "Yes, you can lead by example and show the families with "uttrocious" behaviour how to behave in a spotting environment!" Yes, indead. I will be match
44 Yyz717: Congrats. Neil. Hope you bring him up well, and don't be scared to chage his diaper..... Do you want a boy or a girl? What ?!?!?!?!?!?!
46 Captaingomes: Let me be the first to congratulate you Neil! I see a bright, if rather difficult child who will prosper as a true capitalist in the future. My best w
47 Yyz717: I see a bright, if rather difficult child who will prosper as a true capitalist in the future. Thanks! I think he will also be handsome, athletic and
49 Canadi>nBoy: RDPS, I took a moment and visited that link you posted above. My God, you people are really serious about this airport spotting, aren't you? You've ce
50 MartinairYYZ: I seen to be utterly confuzed..... Now I realize Canadi>nboy is having a baby, and I got him mixed up with yyz717, but isn't Neil also having a baby?
51 Canadi>nBoy: MartinairYYZ, Yes, my friend, you are "utterly confuzed". If I am in fact myself having a baby, then I'm a miracle of the modern world. Let's get this
52 Yyz717: Oh Neil, this is wonderful news. Congratulations from one Dad-to-be to another. Our children will be born at the same time (?) and we can enroll them
53 RDPS: RDPS, I took a moment and visited that link you posted above. My God, you people are really serious about this airport spotting, aren't you? You've ce
54 Canadi>nBoy: What? You think my genetic offspring will be inferior to your clan? Not up to snuff? My word! Well then, dear man, allow me to state that I come from
55 BigOrange: ElAl security have no authority to ask you to leave, all they can do is call the cops and have them remove you. If you are hassled by ElAl security, w
56 MartinairYYZ: Here inlies the problem. Many spotters have reported being chased and told things such as photography of aircraft is illegal or you can't be here in s
57 Canadi>nBoy: "We have modelled our initiative after the successful progam in place at the Ottawa Int'l Airport. We've had numerous discussions with the officials a
58 AWspicious: "I, dear man, merely loaded the cargo into her hold." That has to be one of the most hilarious lines I've read on A.net in a long time! Oh man... You
59 Canadi>nBoy: I uttered that exact phrase to my beloved Cruella last night, and she spit out the water she was drinking all over the dining room table. LOL! In rega
Sponsor Message: 
From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 578 posts, 
Came back when it was gone... he passed by a couple times and didn't even stop. Freak.......
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
We still need to respect the law. 
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