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NW's Fleet In 3 Years  
User currently offlineFrugalqxnwa From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 565 posts, RR: 1
Posted (11 years 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4954 times:

All DC-9s. Any thoughts?

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (11 years 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4800 times:


744 (Pacific)
742F (Cargo)
A333 (Atlantic)
A332 (Pacific and Atlantic)
DC10 (Hawaiian services from DTW and MSP + one or more Atlantic segments)
753 (Domestic & Hawaii)
752 (Domestic)
A320 (Domestic & Mexico/Carib)
A319 (Domestic & Mexico/Carib)
DC9 (-30 and -50 series - Domestic)

I think that the 742s will be gone (NW at some point will be temepted to pick up some 2nd hand 744s at a great price), most of the DC-10-30s will be retired, all of the DC9-10s will be gone (finally - the -10s were supposed to be out of the fleet years ago) and some DC-9-30s and -50s will leave the fleet/

User currently offlineSafetyDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3795 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (11 years 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4778 times:

While I would expect the 742s to be gone, I would expect them to go a little bit later on.


"She Flew For What We Stand For"
User currently offlineFrugalqxnwa From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 565 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (11 years 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4761 times:

Okay, here is my serious listing of what NW's fleet will be in 3 years.

DC-9-30/40/50 with possible replacement orders for E190 or 717
A330-200/300 with possible 7E7 order to supplement on Pacific routes
DC-10 with possible 777 replacement order
747-400 freighter and passenger

User currently offlineRCS763av From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4409 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (11 years 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4668 times:


User currently offlineBa319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8697 posts, RR: 54
Reply 5, posted (11 years 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4648 times:
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NW will not order the 7E7 to suplement the A332 on pacific routes,makes no logical sense at all.

In addition,NW will not order the 777 to replace the DC-10,thats what the A333/332 is for.

The 777 could be added as a 742 replacement,but knowing NW and it making more sense,adding used 744's is more likely.

User currently offlineAGrayson514 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 396 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (11 years 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4648 times:

It think that three years isn't far ahead enough to see much of a change. Try 5-6 years, that will be the interesting time for NW. I think that NW is full of possibilities, like the DC-9 replacement (A318, A319, 717, EMB190?), and the DC-10 replacement (A330, A340, 7E7, 777?) along with possible expansion (More 747's, 747ADV, 744f? A340's, A380's?).

Then you have NW's regional operation, how long will those Saab 340's last? What about the Avro's?

NW will be one of the more interesting airlines to watch in the next 5-6 years.

~ Andrew Grayson

Give a little bit...
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (11 years 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4575 times:

The summer of 2007 for NW will pretty much the same as the summer of 2004, only with a few less of these(DC9-10 and DC-10) and a couple more of those(Airbuses and perhaps a couple more 747-400's. Thats about it.
Now, try the summer of 2009, now theres a change or two for us

If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineCRJmx From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (11 years 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4390 times:


You are either on to something or on something. I'm not sure which.  Nuts

When it hits your lips, it's so good!!
User currently offlineJafa From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 782 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (11 years 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4335 times:

I predict:
a few more Airbus A319, A320 more A330 (on schedule for delivery)
A few less DC9's (aoround 15-20)
less DC10's
all 747-200's removed from scheduled service
an order for Embraer 190/195 or CRJ700

User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4185 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (11 years 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 3276 times:

IMO - the mainline fleet will consist of the following:


DC9-30, slowly phased out as the cycles warrant - replacement? Probably a new fleet type, such as the EMB190/195 to capture the 100 seat market only



332/333 - they'll exercise options to grow and further right size markets

773ER or A346- a new order for these to replace the 742s and their capacity -if not a 332/333/744 Pacific fleet entirely

744 - exercise their 2 options and possibly buy more new ones, only if the costs of buying used ones are more (refurb, mx and retrofitting)

The regional fleets consisting of:

Saab 340 (B+ models only)
CRJ - 44 and 50 seat configs
Avros will be phased out in favor of a mainline 70 seat a/c


742Fs reconverted from the mainline fleet, however as they get long in the tooth an order for 744F to further enhance fleet commonality.

Unfortunately, this all won't happen in 3 years. Perhaps the ball will get rolling but things like this won't happen overnight. Perhaps in 5-7 years this could be the case.


User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 11148 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (11 years 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 3214 times:

I think you got it about right, Azjubilee.
But I have some additional thoughts, mainly for the cargo fleet.

Regional jets aside the single-aisle fleet won´t be replaced except some DC-9s when age bites.
Some A330-300s could be added/placed on trunk routes.

the 744s and A330s won´t be in danger this decade.
The 742s and DC-10-30s will leave one after the other when economical reasons (age) demands it and the most interesting thing will be the answer what will replace them. Secondhand 744s and more A330s make most sense. 777s make no sense at all, but there is a little chance for A340s although I don´t expect something in this direction in the next 3 years.

NWA should be a hot candidate for becoming lauch customer for the 747 Adv. A commitment in that direction could happen in 2 or 3 years time.

Cargo: The oldest quartet of NWAs 742Fs will turn 30 by 2004, certainly time to contemplate here. I expect the newer 742 pax aircraft built in the mid 80s will be converted (as NWA has indicated last year although nothing has happened since). NWA could also be an airline shopping for 744SFs soon. I do not expect them buying brandnew 744Fs though. That wouldn´t fit the airlines and the market situation. But you never know. How beautiful would it be to see the NWA livery based on bare metal-finished 744Fs!

User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4185 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (11 years 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 3146 times:

NA -

Good points however I have a few comments. The avro contract with Mesaba is up in 2007. If the NWA pilots and NWA get their wish, the 70 seat a/c will go to mainline flying. Then, why the need for avros? None. The contract stipulates that if the avros are retired they can be replaced with 44/50 seat CRJs 1 for 1. Then, if NWA is operating the 70 seat a/c, their numbers will be a function of the rest of the mainline narrowbody fleet, as are the 50 seat CRJs. So as they expand and contract that fleet, so will the 50 and 70 seats SJs.

I don't think the 777 or 345/346 is really out of the running. They might have been too big for the NWA Atlantic mission, but when the 742s are retired from hauling people, there will be a large market segment gone unfilled at NWA. If they only operate the 332 and 744 across the Pacific they will only have 250 and 400 seat a/c for that mission. They're missing the boat big time with the 350 seat market, especially being an airline that masters the art of matching capacity to demand.

IMHO, NWA can go two different ways. They can introduce the 333 to the Pacific, mainly for interport and Hawaii flying (due to range). This will provide them with 250, 300 and 400 seat a/c for the Pacific entity. Not only will this save them from introducing a new fleet type, it nearly fills the 350 seat gap left in the Pacific fleet. The only problem I see, is that they'll miss the boat with a 350 seat a/c to cross the Pacific (where the 332 is too small and the 744 too large). With a long range 350 seat a/c we could see the resumption of DTW-SHA/PEK/SEL and perhaps new long haul transpac flying.

With that said, that's where I think the 773ER or the 345/346 could possibly come into play. Should NWA choose to go this route the winning a/c will be the one that can fill the mission best. That being: aprox 65 WBC and 285 Y seats, full complement of cargo and passengers over a long distance. That's why I think it will come down to the 773ER or the 345/346 (346 most likely). I know engine commonality will come into play, but it won't matter if acquisition, operation and maintenance costs are negligible.

Regarding the acquisition of used a/c. NWA will only do this if those costs of acquiring a new plane are more than the costs of buying a used one and refurbishing it into NWA standard.

Regarding cargo - the new cargo LOA has been signed between NWA and their pilots which will facilitate the growth of the cargo arm in the near future. To what extent, I'm not sure. But I'm sure they're weighing the options of new planes and what type.

It's a dynamic time for NWA and it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.


User currently offlineN737AF From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (11 years 1 week ago) and read 3105 times:

Is there a link to a post about when the DC-9-10's will be retired?

Or does anyone have/know that information off the top of their head?


Continental 450, contact Departure and have a Good Evening.
User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2547 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (11 years 1 week ago) and read 3087 times:

DC-9s will be "replaced" by Pinnacle and Mesaba RJ's. You will NOT see a NWA 717, EMB-170 -190 -195, or an A-318. Management will take the hard line and force acceptance of a contract which allows additional 70+ seat RJ's. Mainline may then purchase new types of RJ's for the regionals to lease.

NW's smallest mainline aircraft will eventually be the A-319.

Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4185 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (11 years 1 week ago) and read 2944 times:

TJwgrr - I wouldn't be so quick to assume the NWA pilots will completely dump their job protection language in their contract. They fought too hard to get it and will likely give up other things instead.


User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (11 years 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2887 times:


If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
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