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"Heavy" Used In Non-US Airspace?  
User currently offlineDr.DTW From United States of America, joined May 2000, 289 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7168 times:

I was just curious if the term "heavy" is used in non-US airspace.

In watching my JP DVD's from around Europe and Africa, and also listening to Dubai ATC, none of the flight crews, or ATC, use "heavy" to desingate a wide-bodied aircraft.

Is this term confined to the US???



37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCapt.Fantastic From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 694 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6967 times:

Now that you mention it, I've noticed that as well.

Also, many foreign airports use the phrase "Line up and Hold" or Line up and Wait" as opposed to "Taxi into position and hold". Of course, they mean the same thing - just tomato and tomaato.


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6941 times:

Heavy is a purely US terminology. Not sure about Canada.


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineCKT523 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6920 times:

I used to work for XLA and we flew the 767 which were still on the Icelandic register then, and we used the "heavy" designator on a number of flights, but im sure someone told me it wasn't simply an a/c type thing, it was down to gross weight on the day and some a/c types such as the B727 have used it, due to them being heavy that day, to let the ATC controller know that they were heavier than normal for seperation purposes.Not sure if thats true ot not though.

User currently offlineJeffDCA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6923 times:

Heavy is a purely US terminology. Not sure about Canada.

Incorrect. Although there are some differences between US and European (for example) terminology, like Capt.Fantastic pointed out, heavy is a standard term, certainly used throughout the US and Europe. It's FAA (US) and JAA (European) regulation to use heavy in the call sign of an aircraft in the heavy category, at least on first contact with the particular ATC unit being contacted.

Cheers,

Jeff


User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2195 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6892 times:

I can't address international airspace, however in US airspace the controller is required to use the term "heavy" in radio conversations in the terminal airspace, but not en route airspace, with the exception of issuing traffic to another aircraft on a heavy.

( From the controllers handbook) Heavies are aircraft capable of takeoff weights more than 255,000 pounds whether or not they are operating at this weight during a particular phase of flight.

B757-300, B767, B747, B777,DC-10, MD-11,Some DC-8s, Some B707s, A300,330,340, L-1011, C5, C141,C17,B-52, Some KC-135s, VC-10, IL-96.....a few others.




I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineSacflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 371 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6805 times:

I believe use of the word "Heavy" also has to do with the flight performance of the aircraft, and that is why the term is most applicable to terminal areas. Some heavy aircraft may have problems staying below the terminal area airspeed limits and the 250 knot rule below 10,000 feet, eg the Concorde.
So for flight safety and performance, heavies may fly faster.

For example, a T-38, due to its performance characteristics, has an FAA exemption that allows it fly at 300 knots when other aircraft are restricted to 250 knots. You wouldn't think of a 12,500 lb two seat trainer as a heavy, but it is basically the same principle.




I'm just happy that RR ratings can't be in negative numbers!
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6785 times:

IIRC, it's only North America/USA, but hey I have been wrong before.

Heavies are aircraft capable of takeoff weights more than 255,000 pounds whether or not they are operating at this weight during a particular phase of flight.

The exception is the 757. It's a "heavy" despite weighing in under the limit since it produces a disproportionately powerful wake.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineJeffDCA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6747 times:

IIRC, it's only North America/USA, but hey I have been wrong before.

According to the JAA ATPL Communications notes it's Europe as well.

Cheers,

Jeff


User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6738 times:

The exception is the 757. It's a "heavy" despite weighing in under the limit since it produces a disproportionately powerful wake.

Not always, when I flew the 57 a few years ago, UA had channel 9 open, and "Heavy" was never part of our call sign.


User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2195 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6699 times:

Sacflyer, Nope.

Starlionblue, B757s capable of 255,000 or more only, not all 757s. ATC does however have additional wake turbulence separation standards behind any 757.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6692 times:

Heavy is a purely US terminology. Not sure about Canada

They also used "Heavy" at Kai Tak...

B757s capable of 255,000 or more only, not all 757s. ATC does however have additional wake turbulence separation standards behind any 757.

ATA uses "Heavy" for their 757 flights...

[Edited 2004-07-25 23:37:52]

User currently offlineBar032 From Nauru, joined Jul 2004, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6671 times:

According to JAR, an a/c in the wake turbulence category "heavy" should on initial contact with an ATC unit include the word "heavy" immidiately after its callsign.
An a/c is included in wake turbulence category "heavy" when its MTOW is 136,000 kg or more.

Hope that helps!



Aviate, Navigate, Communicate
User currently offlineJeffDCA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6666 times:

Nice one Bar032, i've been looking for that MTOW figure everywhere!  Smile

Cheers,

Jeff


User currently offlineDr.DTW From United States of America, joined May 2000, 289 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6589 times:

Regarding the 757, only the -300's are designated "heavy."

Dr.DTW


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6545 times:

I am so wrong today  Big grin It's great that the rest of you have been so nice about it. Kudos to you and more users should be gracious as you instead of just yelling: "MORON!"  Big grin


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2195 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6521 times:

Starlionblue.
Many come here to learn, If we all knew the answers there would be no point in having the forums, except maybe for those who want to yell "MORON" and not be gracious. Someday they will learn, it takes too much effort to be an asshole.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlinePHLapproach From Philippines, joined Mar 2004, 1230 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6501 times:

You will hear ATA, NW, CO and Condor use the heavy designation for their 753's since Boeing did extend the fuselage. Therefore, increasing the weight above 255,000. The 752 on the other hand (correct me if i'm wrong) weighs 240,000lbs. I have never ever heard a 752 called a "heavy" simply because of the letters showing its a 752 and of the wake turbulance "H/L/B752" (I can't remember). You will also always hear an ATC let an a/c on final or taking the active of a 75 in the vicinity and "Caution wake turbulance"

User currently offlineNalez From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6483 times:

Correct on the 753/752 thing.

I often spot at MSP with the scanner in hand.
753's are called as heavies.
752's are not called as heavies.
ATC does call wake on all 753's and 752's if an aircraft is landing/departing within a 5
mile gap of the 757.


User currently offlinePositive rate From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 2143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6475 times:

In Australia we don't use the term "Heavy" at all. Even 747's just use their callsign and that's it. E.g CX 105.

User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6471 times:

Regarding the 757, only the -300's are designated "heavy."

How wrong you are... When I lived in Maryland two years ago, I used to visit DCA all the time. The 757-200's from MDW used "Heavy" in the callsign. NAS North Island had an ATA 757-200 a few weeks ago... "Heavy" was used.




User currently offlineBuckfifty From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1316 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6391 times:

The book may say one thing, but the only time we've ever had to use the term 'heavy' is for the North American ports, where it is applied religiously for every transmission. Not enroute over Europe for the most part except for the U.K. (where you will probably only hear it entering the FIR or terminal area), and certainly not in Hong Kong.

On my last flight into Vancouver, the ATC did a traffic report for a Cheyenne flying towards enroute Tofino. "Your traffic is at your 12, an Airbus 340 heavy." That was fun.


User currently offlineATCisgreat From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 103 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6307 times:

With us in Maastricht airspace we as air traffic controllers don't use the term "heavy". But quite often pilots coming back from the States use it in addition to their callsign, I think it's just a habit they keep during the whole flight. So it can be heard every day in European airspace.

Byebye



Next: 26.05. DUS-LHR BA939, LHR-HKG BA25; 01.06 HKG-LHR BA32; 02.06. LHR-DUS BA938
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6282 times:

I don't want to gloat, but it feels good I wasn't completely off base with either "heavy" or the 752.

Ok I do want to gloat a bit Big grin



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineHirnie From Germany, joined May 2004, 593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6243 times:

In Germany the term "heavy" is only used by the pilot doing an "initial call" on a frequency. The controller doesn`t have to use this frase. After the first call the pilot can omit the "heavy".

25 GKirk : 757-200s in the UK at least, use the heavy callsign due to the strong wake turbulence following them. Rick767 and Crosswind will know more about this
26 Levg79 : Heavy is a purely US terminology. Not sure about Canada. I flew UA's 777 JFK-NRT-JFK and was listening to Ch. 9 all the time. The term heavy was used
27 Dr.DTW : Maiznblu_757.. I've been listening to ATC for over 20 years, all over the country, and I have never heard any 757 referred as "heavy" until NW brought
28 AWspicious : "Heavy is a purely US terminology. Not sure about Canada." You can include Canada in this category. When traffic is a bit close, the contorllers will
29 XFSUgimpLB41X : Levg79- If you had kept up with the convo earlier, you would have noticed that heavy is only used on approach tower, and ground frequencies, not on th
30 Caribb : I've heard it used in Montreal airspace so it's used in Canada.
31 SPREE34 : Dr.DTW, The guidlines at DCA (by law,and agency orders)can't be different. The "heavy" subject is in the form of an order, not a guideline. Do a searc
32 Post contains images FinnWings : I'm a little bit confused.... JAR rules clearly determines that "heavy" term should be always used in European airspace when making initial contact. S
33 Post contains images Maiznblu_757 : What you heard at DCA was probably an ATA 757-300 referred to as "heavy Nope, they were ATA 757-200's thank you very much.... for insulting my recogni
34 Post contains images PanAmerican : Is the heavy also used for Air Force flights? E.g. do they call the VC-25A "Air Force One heavy" when Bush is onboard as opposed to just "Air Force On
35 RareBear : The term "heavy" is used for Air Force planes. The C-17s assigned to Charleston AFB in South Carolina use the callsign "Reach XXX heavy" I can't recal
36 Filejw : I don't know the exact wt. but some 757 200 's do have a GW at or above 255,000 # and ATA is an operator of high GW 757 200's.
37 Post contains images PanAmerican : Ok, thanks RareBear. That is interesting, I just wonder why they don't apply this rule on all flights then. PA
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