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UA And NW To Add 14 Additional Flights To China  
User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4866 times:

The WSJ today is reporting that the US and China will allow NW and UA each 7 additional flights per week to China. The agreement will also allow an additional airline to begin service in the near future. AA has already released a statement saying that they will applying for the route. Northwest has said that they will add a flight between Detroit and Guangzhou, being the first US carrier to serve that route. UA will add a daily nonstop between Chicago and Shanghai. Currently US airlines fly a total of 54 flights per week to China, however in the new agreement over the next 6 years US airlines will be allowed 249 weekly flights. The agreement will also allow for US Cargo carriers to open shipping hubs within China.

EDIT: The agreement does not only allow one additional airline, it is actually 5 from each country. I got confused because only ONE US CARGO airline will be able to start serving China later this year, and China will be able to either choose a cargo or passenger airline to begin service to the US. The other 5 pax airlines will be worked in over the next 6 years.
Hope I cleared that up ok....

[Edited 2004-07-25 23:09:23]


/// UNITED AIRLINES
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4692 times:

Anyone want to guess what airlines we will see on this route.
1) Delta
2) Continental
3) American
4) US Airways
5) Hawaiian



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineStargoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4669 times:

"Anyone want to guess what airlines we will see on this route.
1) Delta
2) Continental
3) American
4) US Airways
5) Hawaiian "

They'll all be bankrupt by then..

my bets are:-

1. Jet Blue
2. Southwest
3. America West aka Lufthansa
4. Sky West
5. Virgin Pacific  Smile/happy/getting dizzy



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4651 times:

With an opportunity like this some LCC's might go for it! This would be an entirely new market for most airlines so why not an LCC. I could see ATA starting service with the L1011........ Wouldn't that be nice!


/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4635 times:

Continental already has an established Pacific & TransPacific route network, loyal pax, and experience, so I can see them more easily filling the additional airline contender slot . . . . . . . if I had to take one of those on the list.


Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7633 posts, RR: 42
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4555 times:

Do you think that serving the U.S.-China market will have a significant positive impact in the U.S. carriers' bottomline? Since China is set to become a major destination for business flyers (and tourists too), flights to/from China could become cash cows for American carriers and, perhaps, that might help them get out of their current bad situation. Any thoughts?


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4539 times:

EDDIE,
I think the additional flights will help UA for now. The pacific is a UA stronghold in my opinion, however I think that the idea of allowing 5 additional airlines on that route will not help any airline but rather the consumer. I sure hope that UA keeps up the level of service that they currently offer on Asian routes, its something that we don't see anymore in the airline industry, but I don't think that they will be able to if they are forced to cut fares.



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7633 posts, RR: 42
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4514 times:

UAL747DEN, you are very right, that is a very smart and accurate comment. I agree that while the authority to fly to China will help the U.S. carriers to have more pax, the fact that five of them will be competing in the same market (plus the Chinese airlines, plus other airlines from Eastern Asia offering connecting service) will force them to be very aggressive with fares, so that will definitely benefit the consumer more than the airlines.


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1001 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4494 times:

They'll all be bankrupt by then..

CO and AA are doing rather well in comparison to DL and UA. I'd expect both CO and AA to have a very slight loss for the year (they've made quarterly profits) but I think they could be profitable next year. New routes mean new deliveries means new-build 777s  Big thumbs up


User currently offlineCarfield From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1946 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4289 times:

I actually think Continental will be a good choice. I flew HKG-EWR nonstop quite a bit for the past few years, and it was hard not to notice the amount of Mainland Chinese passengers on board. Of course, CO offers much discount, especially during the beginning stage; nevertheless, CO has slowly developed a loyal customer base. I am sure that CO will be a good choice.

For American, it will come close as the second best airline to fly the Chinese routes. They have quite a strong hub at Tokyo...

About Delta, I am not sure... it has only one flight to Tokyo NRT from ATL, and I am not sure if DL is a good choice to start the Mainland route. Apart form its codeshare deal with China Southern, and its Skyteam partner, Korean Air, has a strong hold on the Chinese market, I don't know if DL is fitted to do the Asian run.

Anyway, the Mainland China is a big market to tap on... I am sure United and Northwest appreciate the connections to the Mainland market.

Carfield


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4023 posts, RR: 27
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4269 times:

AA has NO hub at Tokyo. They simply have flights to their hubs in the states.



AZJ


User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4150 times:

"I sure hope that UA keeps up the level of service that they currently offer on Asian routes, its something that we don't see anymore in the airline industry..."

Would you expand on this. I'm not familiar with how UA stacks up against Asian carriers level of service. Coach class please. I may be flying transpacific to HKG and would like your knowledge.



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineB2443 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3943 times:

Would you expand on this. I'm not familiar with how UA stacks up against Asian carriers level of service. Coach class please. I may be flying transpacific to HKG and would like your knowledge.

Well, the new 14 additional flights from US-China has nothing to do with your destination -HKG, which is covered under a separate agreement.

Speaking of UA's service compared to Asian carriers, if you meant the Chinese carriers, I don't think they are comparable. UA's service (inflight professionalism and on-ground costomer service) is far much better than CA, MU and CZ's. CA, MU and CZ cannot even do thru check-ins on their own flights, let alone inter-line services.


User currently offlineUal777contrail From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3892 times:

b2443,
In my opinion, and employee of UAL, I couldn't wait to get back on UAL when traveling abroad. There are a few European and Asian carriers that people claim are superior to UAL and believe me they are not. UAL Dominates the pacific rim for a reason. People tend to compare the 3000 daily departures domestically to the international flying, it is in fact a whole different airline. UAL Makes money flying to china, and I mean Beijing and Shanghai, the planes are full and fares aren't cheap. Our Asian routes make money and the service is far superior to domestic service. As far as Asian carriers go, UAL is among the best at this, they know it makes money and the flight crews prove that, I have traveled to china(excluding HKG) many times, my favorite being PEK, and I will only fly UAL for the seat selection, times of frequencies, and planes used on these routes, and with the opportunities on using an ID90(90% off ) on ANY Asian carrier I choose UAL every time.


UAL 777 CONTRAIL


User currently offlineDaumueller From Germany, joined Nov 2003, 693 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3839 times:

3. America West aka Lufthansa

was that a joke I just didn't get or did I miss something?!  Smile


User currently offlineIowa744fan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3829 times:

First, this topic was covered a few weeks ago and in quite a bit of detail when info of the deal was first released. So, if you want more info or links, just look it up on the search.

Second, I hope that those of you who think that the LCCs should apply and could operate the China routes are not serious. An ATA L-1011 into China? Please. With routes that are this lucrative, why would you operate discount tickets when you can just as easily fill the plane at much higher fares. This is not a situation where you can expand the market with low fares, add many flights, and then make revenue that way.

As for US airlines in Asia: As mentioned, AA does not have a hub in Tokyo and they are not very strong at all...they have only five flights on most days (SJC, LAX, ORD, 2X DFW, and JFK). Plus, they don't have the hub operations of NW or UA and the flights throughout the Pacific. In fact, Tokyo is American's only destination in Asia. However, I do believe that they will be aggressively pursuing the right to become the new carrier in China. In addition to China, they would probably finally start the ORD-HKG flight that they have the rights for.

As for Delta, I don't see them trying anytime in the first couple of years. With only 8 777s (and others deferred for a while), they will be a little pressed for aircraft with the range. They would likely have to put nearly all of their 777 fleet in the Pacific to accomodate these flights. Plus, I have a hard time believing that they would be able to draw enough traffic from any hub other than Atlanta...which would be a pretty long haul.

Continental definitely seems to be a strong contender and I am almost certain that they will be making a run at the China routes. As mentioned before, they have delivery options for 777s that they have been holding for just such a case. Plus, after NW and UA, I believe that they are the largest US carrier in Asia (passenger carrier) if you include the Continental Micronesia operation.

Most likely, politics and influence will play an important role in this decision. I know that AA supported Bush a bit, but Continental is also based in Texas, so who knows there. As for other airlines, I imagine that United and Northwest will both be pushing for Continental over American. Northwest will prefer to have a partner airline operating the routes and I am sure that United would rather have Continental operating the routes from Newark instead of having American operate routes from Chicago in direct competition.

One last thing. A friend with AA told me that they just announced that slots for JFK-HKG flights had been turned in or plans were cancelled.


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