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NW Paints "Old 728" In NW Colors!  
User currently offlineType-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9766 times:

I recently came across some information that Northwest Airlines recently contributed toward painting the highest time DC-3 in a retro Northwest livery.

Here is some info about "Old 728"

Ship 728 was built in 1939 as a standard 21-passenger version and saw service with Eastern Airlines, before being sold to North Central Airlines in 1952. When North Central retired No. 728 from scheduled service in April 1965, the plane had flown 83,032 hours and more than 12 million miles—the equivalent of more than 9 years in the air and 25 round trips to the moon!

No. 728 was refurbished by North Central and converted into a VIP aircraft. Airline executives flew in No. 728 until 1974, when the plane was donated to the Henry Ford Museum. North Central merged with Southern Airways in 1979 to become Republic Airlines, which was later purchased by Northwest Airlines in 1986.

The plane is painted in vintage Northwest Airlines livery in acknowledgement of the key role that company played in making the exhibit and the restoration of No. 728 a reality.


Here is a picture of how she originally looked:



And this is how she looks now:



Thinking about this logically, shouldn't they have repainted this bird in ex-NC colors? It seems that NWA owns the rights to the North Central brand, but this bird never flew for NW. Why in the world would they do something like this? Are they on a "seek and destroy" mission to remove Herman anywhere they can?

On the plus side:

They DID move her indoors and clean her up quite a bit. But I feel that the color scheme just isn't right.

What do YOU think about this?







31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7780 posts, RR: 16
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9541 times:

Why not repaint her in Eastern's colors as she was originally delivered? While the plane has a history with a company that is in todays Northwest family tree I don't neccessarily see the obligation to paint her in the North Central livery. As DC-3s flew for Northwest Orient in the day these colors are just as appropriate.

But then being I am a young dumb kid and do not fully appreciate the history in the same way that you do.  Wink/being sarcastic



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineL.1011 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2209 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9455 times:

Those colors don't seem like something from the "Red Tail" airline, but they do look nice. That idea to paint the DC-9s in the retro colors of all the different airlines that led to today's Northwest, was a much better one than painting this DC-3 in North Central colors.

User currently offlineType-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9419 times:

The idea is that she became famous for the hours she put in for North Central, not for Eastern or Northwest. She has more time than any other DC-3 serving as a NC DC-3.

To me, this would be like painting museum replicas of the moon lander used in our moon missions in Soviet Colors!

I would certainly find even EA colors more acceptable than NW colors since she did serve EA for awhile.
If NW wanted to paint a ex-NWA DC-3 in NW colors I would have no problem with that. But this one is special!


User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2453 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 9127 times:

Although the bird looks sharp, what a shame they couldn't preserve the North Central scheme, the colors this bird flew so proudly for so many years.  Sad


Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 9075 times:

The red tails showed up under Donald Nyrop, the NW big boss of the 50's thru the mid 70's. He wanted the tails red so he knew when a NW plane was flying around Minneapolis, where his office was. He could see em easier....that was the story. Whether or not its true, will be a mystery in life.
NW has NO reason to put the bird in Eastern colors. I like the blue goose scheme shown above.
Also.........#728 was the ship number of a B-720 B, a plane in my NW daze.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineM404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2226 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8967 times:
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Yes, it should have been the North Central colors. All this does is solidify the feelings of predecessor employees of alienation. The NC scheme would have helped so much erase that feeling. "Old 728" was famous as a NC plane and should stay that way


Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlineJano From Slovakia, joined Jan 2004, 827 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8923 times:

Or it might have been differently...

NW's DC3s were originally painted with red tails during WWII when NW was as the only airline supplying US Army positioned in Alaska and at Aleutian Islands. NW DC3s were overflowing Canada at that time. If they had an unplanned landing somewhere in the middle of nowhere with lots of snow around, they were much easier to be spotted by the rescue team because of their red tails.



The Widget Air Line :)
User currently offline4everRC From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 325 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8860 times:

HERMAN SHOULD BE ON THE TAIL OF THAT PLANE! period.

Thank you (stepping down from soapbox)



Nobody served our republic like Republic!
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8833 times:

And.....

Babe Ruth is inducted in to the baseball hall of fame, as....

A Boston Red Sox. Not!
(apologies to all non-Americans who don't understand my sarcasm)

This really bums me out people.
Another example of revisionist history that is sweeping this country.



Delete this User
User currently offlineType-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days ago) and read 6858 times:

What I am interested in knowing is why didn't the ex-North Central employees at NW say something about this? I am sure if they would have known about this they would have taken up a collection to have 728 painted in North Central livery.

It just seems like Northwest is doing all they can to remove any evidence of any of their predecessor companies from existance. They want everyone to think that everything was Northwest from the start. I can't believe that the employees allowed this to happen. I really do believe that the Henry Ford Museum and Northwest got together with our any fanfare or publicity or even any input from employees at all and repainted as seen. In other words, this was most likely a Northwest Managment directive, rather than a decision.

Anybody have any idea approximately how many ex-North Central employees are left at Northwest?


User currently offlineCptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days ago) and read 6715 times:

I saw "Old 728" being repainted for The Henry Ford last year when the new aviation section was still being constructed (I was actually doing some part-time work for a prototype company that was invited to quote on the resto, but they eventually decided it was beyond their capabilities).

I was sad that Herman's colors were being assigned to memory. From a corporate standpoint, I can understand why some NW suits would opt for NW colors as they where paying for the resto (much work other than paint tallied into quite a bit), but also feel that it would have been more to their benifit had they restored her in North Central's livery with placards or such noting the history of the aircraft, and they (NW) had chosen to keep original the last-service appearance of such a famous airplane. If I had the bucks, Herman would survive! Regards...Jack



all best; jack
User currently offlineType-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days ago) and read 6644 times:

Cptkrell:

I could not have said it better. They could have painted her in North Central livery (the 1950's, Indian Feather one would be the best for her) and put out a sign of some kind indicating that this is now part of the Northwest heritage.

I agree that it was very nice of Northwest to pay for the restoration and to bring old 728 inside, but they could have been more sensitive to history.

Isitsafenow & Jano:
Thanks for the history lesson. I didn't know how the red tails came to be, I learned something new!

Here is more history about old 728:

http://www.hfmgv.org/museum/heroes/entrepreneurs/dc3.asp



User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days ago) and read 6611 times:

Why would one think this needs to be painted in NW colors? NC colors would have been the right way to go. Its a travesty to have it painted in NW colors, plain and simple.

User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2453 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5130 times:

Let's go to Dearborn to protest and picket the museum!!!

 Pissed

Friends of Herman UNITE!



Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineType-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5034 times:

As you can tell I find this very disturbing. Later today I am going to talk to a few ex-NC, Northwest pilots I know and get their take on this. Maybe they know more about it than I do.

Maybe a 'Freinds of 728" Foundation can be created to get this bird painted in the RIGHT livery? Anyone interested in becoming involved?

This afternoon I am going to call the Henry Ford museum and ask them how this came to be. I'll post their response here.



User currently offlineType-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4984 times:

I spoke with the people at the Henry Ford Museum and they were quite nice and cooperative. They explained to me that the entire "Early Adventures in Flight" exhibit is sponsored and paid for by Northwest Airlines, the dominant carrier in that part of the country. But they connected me with the aviation research department and I was very politely told to send them an e-mail with my questions and they would forward it to the proper museum managers for an answer. Here is what I sent them:

Gentlemen:

I have a question about one of your displays in the "Adventures in Early Flight" exhibit, particularly the DC-3 known as "Old 728".
At the time North Central Airlines donated it to the museum it was the highest time DC-3 in existance. It spent most of its working years with North Central Airlines. This is a historical fact.
My question is, why would this aircraft now be painted in a vintage Northwest Airlines livery when in fact this particular DC-3 never flew for Northwest Airlines, making this display historically inaccurate? I am very interested to know the reasoning behind this.

Sincerely,
Allen Moore


I'll post their response, if I get one.


User currently onlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8289 posts, RR: 23
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4981 times:

Why did the cockpit window layout change? Note the 4 panes of glass in the 1st picture then the 6 in the 2nd. I thought the later DC-3s had only the 4 as 6 leaked too much?


This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12113 posts, RR: 49
Reply 18, posted (10 years 2 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4968 times:
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Maybe a solution would have been to paint one side in NW colors and leave the other North Central colors? Though from a Corporate side if I might, NW is still flying North Central is not, and yes us airline nuts know that, the general flying public is well DUMB. And NW is the dominate carrier in the region and it is advertising that is seen daily by hundreds of possible ticket buyers.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineType-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4934 times:

Actually, I found an article on the Internet addressing this issue:

http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/185973-1.html

Please note "There are a number of very angry former North Central employees -- for that was a proud airline



User currently offlineBillElliott9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (10 years 2 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4916 times:

I sincerely appreciate the display of pride by the North Central/Republic contingent on this site.

Let us not forget, however, that NW is the oldest airline in the US (continuous name) and flew DC-3s, as well. I agree with Luv2Fly's assessment -- this is a marketing tool and the $$ should (and are) being used to point the public to the company still in existence today.

Having written that, I do hope that North Central is mentioned at the display.

BE9


User currently offlineDc8jet From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 326 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4779 times:

I am wondering where they got that shade of blue. In all of the photos that I have of aircraft in that paint scheme the blue is very dark, almost black. I agree that it should have been painted back into the North Central colors. Considering all of the people that visit The Henry Ford each year I guess NW figured it would be good advertising for them.

User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4670 times:

Type-rated, I was gonna say what you did.


Before last December I had not been at Henry Ford Museum for probably 15 years. I remember seeing the Herman DC-3 parked outside the museum. When I was there in December 2003, I was looking outside for it only to see it now inside in Northwest colors.

I was disgusted that it was repainted. I went to one of the museum workers asking him why was the DC-3 repainted to Northwest colors when that DC-3 never flew for Northwest and he answered basically the same way you did. Northwest paid for a lot of the refurbished exhibit and part of the deal was to paint the DC-3 in Northwest colors to advertise.


User currently offlineType-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4489 times:

Hlywdctft:

I agree with you, I am totally disgusted over this. I can't wait to see if I receive a response from the Henry Ford.
I was able to speak with two ex-NC now Northwest pilots I know and they are more than aware of the situation with this DC-3. They know it's not right, but they also don't want to awaken the wrath of Northwest management. It seems when NW bought out Republic (RC), the merger didn't go exactly smoothly. Lots of demotions, pay cuts, etc. for the RC people. It was quite demoralizing, but you either went with the NW program, or you would be looking for a job elsewhere. One guy said that only in the past few years are the RC guys getting back to the positions they were in at RC before the merger. It was not a comfortable time.


User currently offlineEI2KSEA From Ireland, joined Jul 2004, 578 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4425 times:

"Yes, it should have been the North Central colors. All this does is solidify the feelings of predecessor employees of alienation. "

"Old 728" was famous as a NC plane and should stay that way"


This makes me think about something similar which really enrages me - why are McDonald-Douglas aircraft rebranded as Boeing (e.g when you see Boeing MD-80 mentioned in magazines) even when they werent built at that time by Boeing.

Whilst they were at it, its a wonder they didnt just call it a Boeing DC-3????

:-(




Next Flight: DUB-BOS (EI), BOS-DEN-PDX (SWA), SEA-BOS (AS)
25 Tjwgrr : So basically if a corporation donates money to a museum for restoration of a museum piece with historical significance, the museum will allow the rest
26 Type-rated : TJGWRR: It's called "revisionist history". It seems to be all the rage these days as pointed out earlier by Stirling: Another example of revisionist h
27 Type-rated : Today I received a response from "the Henry Ford" to my inquiry (a copy of which is in Reply 16). Here is their response: Dear Mr. Moore, I had forwar
28 Burnsie28 : I think its redicoulous that you make a big deal out of this, why is this such a big deal to you? Thats like saying that when someone buys a used airc
29 Type-rated : Now, now Mr. Burnsie28.... If you would have read the original posting you would have learned that this aircraft was put in a museum for accomplishing
30 Stirling : Burnsie28- There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything and the way you lashed out at Typerated would be considered the wrong way of doing thi
31 Type-rated : Stirling: I could not have said it better myself. Aviation history is something that needs to be preserved and thanks to organizations like The Airlin
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