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Cambridge To Dublin?  
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19233 posts, RR: 52
Posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2339 times:

In your opinion, would there be sufficient demand for an daily service between Cambridge and Dublin, operated by an ATR-42 on a no-frills, low-cost basis?

There is, in my opinion, a variety of potential routes from Dublin, including Chester, Carlisle, Norwich, Robin Hood, Oxford and Humberside, all of which would be suitable for an ATR-42 service. I previously added Manston to that list, well before I heard about EUJet's intention to start the route!


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTbanger From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 266 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2326 times:

Not sure whether it would be viable or not. One thing I do know is an ATR is not the type of aircraft for a LCC to operate. These size turboprops need to have quite a yield and the best way to get that is business travel.

If it could sustain a good business route, then they could fill the empty seats with low cost fares.  Big thumbs up





User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19233 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2322 times:

The AT4 is one of the most efficient 'prop aircraft available. The AT7 is even more so, for it carriers quite a few more passengers at only a 15% higher cost, while also flying 5% faster than its smaller sister. The AT4 could probably be easily turned around in 20 minutes at such small airports (perhaps 25 minutes at DUB), meaning its daily utilisation would be even higher. Add to that 12 daily flights (each with a block time of between 50 minutes and 1 hour and 10 mins), and the AT4 can be in the sky for perhaps 12-13 hours per day. But then it could also operate night mail flights, thereby further increasing its daily utilisation (the brief daily maint. check would obviously be carried out). So the AT4 could be a good option on short sectors for a low-cost, no-frills airline. What is not required is expensive regional jets.

[Edited 2004-08-01 01:33:47]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2314 times:

Pe@rson, I doubt yields would be high enough on such routes to warrant a dedicated service. I suppose Norwich, Robin Hood and Humberside might be possible, but that may be in the form of a 'triangle route'. But we then stumble on another problem; businessmen (the real money-makers) don't 'like' triangle routes.

Horus




EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19233 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2314 times:

No, low-cost, no-frills airlines must operate non-stop, so Cambridge-Dublin-Cambridge. I believe Aer Arran is to begin a Dublin-Inverness service using the AT4.....................


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineTombezza From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2306 times:

There's undoubtedly the demand for a Cambridge - Dublin route, but with Stansted less than half an hour away, I couldn't see anyone trying to compete with Ryanair's frequencies and prices.

If Stansted weren't so close, I'm sure that Cambridge could sustain a few routes - but it is, so Marshall's will likely sell the land for housing. Alconbury - Dublin, anyone?

tombezza


User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2306 times:

No, low-cost, no-frills airlines must operate non-stop

That is the general 'rule', but Southwest (the mother of all LCCs) have some routes that involve 2-3 stops before reaching final destination (nothing to do with lack of range of 737).

Horus




EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19233 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2304 times:

Indeed, and how useful those services are! Ha!

Chester is a very affluent area, so Hawaden could probably sustain flights to BHD, DUB, EDI, GLA and LGW. Don't underestimate the potential of these small airports when efficient aircraft like the AT4 could operate from them on a low-cost, no-frills basis.

Oxford/Kidlington could probably support flights to DUB, EDI, GLA, BHD.

Norwich could do with DUB, BHD, GLA.

Carlisle could do with DUB, BHD, LGW.

Robin Hood could do with DUB, BHD, EDI, GLA, LGW.

Despite the proximity of Robin Hood to HUY, there would probably be sufficient demand for a HUY-DUB service.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2291 times:

Not trying to be funny here, but surely if there was demand, then someone would have picked up these routes already.

Horus




EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19233 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2286 times:

LOL not at all. There's many thousands of potential routes throughout the world, hence why new airlines are continually being born and why current airlines expand. Your statement is like saying there's no more water available so no more boats can be made. Goodness, FR didn't just launch 3 new services from STN - well, surely there can't be demand on those routes for other airlines would have operated them already. LOL.  Wink/being sarcastic Sorry mate, just teasing.

[Edited 2004-08-01 01:57:16]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2269 times:

You got me there Pe@rson  Big thumbs up I guess time will tell

Horus




EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19233 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2268 times:

Aye! You must remember, my Egyptian friend, that businesses need to find niches to exploit and means by which to be unique, for differenciation is very important.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2264 times:

That's very true my friend (studied that in economics Big grin)

Horus

p.s. just one correction, I'm half English, half Egyptian



EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19233 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2260 times:

"That's very true my friend (studied that in economics Big grin )"

Aha! I did a Business and Economics A Level, although a few years ago now.

"just one correction, I'm half English, half Egyptian."

 Sad Let the side down now!  Wink/being sarcastic



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2259 times:

Aha! I did a Business and Economics A Level, although a few years ago now.

Haha, me too....the good old days....


Let the side down now!

You lost me there  Confused  Laugh out loud


Horus




EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19233 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2253 times:

"You lost me there"

I mean you poor git for being half English.  Wink/being sarcastic



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2248 times:

I mean you poor git for being half English

Hahaha, well whats done, is done

Horus




EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineBAxMAN From St. Helena, joined May 2004, 671 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2250 times:

Pe@rson, just remember how many LCC's go bust....At the moment,for every new LCC, there is another dying on its legs.

I think you are more than a tad optimistic about how much more traffic DUB could sustain! And your estimatons on Carlisle are quite eye opening for someone who once lived there. Sure, Carlisle is remote and both GLA and MAN are a fair distance away. Even so, it's airport has been tried, tested and found wanting. There is simply not enough demand. You could pay people to fly from Carlisle and still have a half empty plane. Unfortunatley, not even the attraction of the Lakes would be enough to get people there.

The UK is quite a small country and, unlike the US, the sizes of our smaller cities plus their proximity to large ones makes further airport expansion in the regions unlikely. Certainly nothing like on the scale you mention.

Anyway, thanks for the chuckle!



I need to get laid
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19233 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2244 times:

I beg to differ, BAx, but thanks for your input - always welcome.

Take NQY, for example. I've flown the NQY-STN-NQY route in the winter a few times, and the FR 737s are always full or very nearly full - even during the winter. And then there's Air Southwest's service to LGW... So don't diss small places too much (and remember that Cornwall's tourist season is all about the summer).

[Edited 2004-08-01 03:08:58]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24938 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2243 times:

Carlisle is too close to NCL  Big grin
But the airports owner, Edward Haughey is trying to attract flights to Belfast, Dublin, Cork(!), Paris, London and Amsterdam.
One thing that lets Carlisle down is that people who live there cannot afford to fly  Laugh out loud



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19233 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2238 times:

That's just like saying MME's too close to NCL, but it still has a number of flights.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24938 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2230 times:

MME is still a long way behind NCL though, despite having a larger catchment area  Big grin


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19233 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2227 times:

LOL. 'How do you like ye bacon?' 'Bi-er-grove'.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineBAxMAN From St. Helena, joined May 2004, 671 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2222 times:

If anybody in their right mind thinks that Carlisle can sustain flights to those destinations, I shall begin scheduled flights to JFK from my back garden.


I need to get laid
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2121 times:

Ouch!...waiting for a come back Pe@rson  Big thumbs up

I suppose in the future such routes might be possible but not anytime soon.

Horus




EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
25 Ben : If I remember correctly, there was/is a Cambridge based operator which did this route. Suckling comes to mind for some reason....
26 Pe@rson : Suckling used to operate from Cambridge to AMS, more than once daily, if I recall correctly. If a person can fly CONVENIENTLY and CHEAPLY from their l
27 BAxMAN : I completely agree Pearson. But Chester, Oxford and Carlisle are just too small! The ATR is not the miracle solution to reinvigorate ghost town airpor
28 Pe@rson : I completely disagree. Chester is a very affluent area, so if its rich residents could fly conveniently from its local airport instead of travelling t
29 GKirk : Guess what...Suckling Airways = Scot Airways BTW, A CAX-Lonon service would do ok, if marketed properly
30 Pe@rson : "If marketed properly" That's one of the key issues - most small low-cost airlines simply do not market themselves properly, probably due to a lack of
31 Blackbird1331 : Please stop at BHX and pick up my friend, Jennifer. She loves Ireland.
32 BAxMAN : I don't know who by or when, but a CAX - LON service has been attempted as Corus/British Steel have a large presence in Cumbria and were particularly
33 Post contains links CKT789 : OK, for Carlisle, an ATR42 would be too big an aircraft, ...to begin with. Something like a Jetstream or Do328 should be used to start the flights. Th
34 CXA330300 : The ATR is not the miracle solution to reinvigorate ghost town airports. (BAxMAN) Surely not that, but as CKT789 said, Do328s (maybe even the Jet vers
35 JGPH1A : Re the point made about LCC's operating only nonstop flights, and the rebuttal that WN have many multistop flights. Why is it that European LCC's by a
36 GKirk : CXA330300, Sheffield-Dublin flights have been tried recently, by BA CitiExpress using J41s. They didnt last long...
37 HUYfan : I am surprised Ryanair has'nt started flights from Dublin to Humberside or Norwich. HUY handles nearly 530,000 pax a year, way more than the likes of
38 StearmanNut : I'm betting that a business plan research will reveal that business available from Cambridge would not support an one aircraft airline. Besides, one c
39 L1011aaron : Is Robin Hood officially open yet? What aircraft will BY be basing there soon ?and have plans for thomsonfly to opean there second base there been con
40 BestWestern : Pearson.... my old matey... INV, NWI, HUY, OXF, will work to DUB. Cambridge wont... too close to Stansted. Carlisle ummm - difficult one. Chester coul
41 GKirk : Large Irish population in Carlisle, could make a CAX-DUB work, but probbaly on something like a Do328.
42 Pe@rson : Hi folks, Thanks for your opinions and suggestions. I certainly like finding potential routes from hardly served/not served airports. BW - where have
43 Pe@rson : The 328's max. speed (which is not its economical cruise speed) is 335 kts, which is faster than the ATR-42-500's max. cruise speed of 304 kts. The AT
44 Ryanair : I think there is a definate market for flights out of Cambridge. The city is near to Stansted, but has sustained various flights in the past. Suckling
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