What is happening to free speech in the United States? I can understand that articles which may be offensive to other passengers should be put away, but this seems very over excessive for a t-shirt, especially as many of us wear shirts which some may consider rude from time to time!
I've also never heard of an airline throwing off a passenger for such a reason? how common is this?
Would be good to hear what everyone thinks about this!
Womack17 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 497 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 15530 times:
Well, this America after all - Maybe we can get Ashcroft to prosecute them and have them imprisoned. Maybe the flight crew called Jerry Falwell to get his advice before ordered the passenger to remove the shirt. Welcome to the Theocracy of American values. Personally I think this gentleman has one hell of a lawsuit he can pursue.
Oh how I miss Midway Airlines. A class act right to then end.
JGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 15439 times:
Re: I'm glad to read some people have a sense of common decency and civility.
Or just that some puritanical Americans are so hung up about anything remotely sexual that the sight of a boob sends them off the deep end. Grow up, America ! BOOBS - 50% of the population have them, get over it.
Starlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17491 posts, RR: 66
Reply 11, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 15382 times:
For starters, Americans are usually much more sensitive to this sort of thing than Europeans.
Regardless of social mores, free speech has nothing to do with it. You are traveling on private property and are subject to the regulations of the carrier. Just like an employer or a restaurant having a dresscode.
It also amazes me how there is always someone who will refuse to comply. What exactly do the gain by this except to get thrown off the plane? What's the point? Do they really think they have won a victory for free speech?
[Edited 2004-08-02 13:35:25]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
Jumpseat70 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 15246 times:
Free Speech doesn't apply when you are on an airline.
If the shirt offended "anyone" least of all the F/A, then the Pax was in Violation when asked to remove it and they did not. Which then gives the airline the right to throw their country butts off. Flight Attendants have to keep everyone happy, not two immature, inconsiderate moronic individuals with no class.
I can tell you without question that I would NOT have allowed them to board my flight. And I work for Delta. Civility applies when you are in a public setting.
There are cultural mores and they knew that when they put the shirt on. They tested the system and they lost.
Cheers to the AA F/A with the guts to stand up for what she believes in. And the agents and pilots that followed suit.
Ltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13765 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 15200 times:
An airline can prevent a passanger from boarding if they beheave in a way that may be offensive to other passangers. What if the shirt had a picture of a penis? Or used an offensive term like the 'F-word'? The issue here is that such a t-shirt is potentially offensive to many on the aircraft. Yes, we in the US are a bit puriantical about sexual matters but those whom may be offended by such 'speech' have a freedom of speech too to express that they are offended. That the person here apparently refused to be reasonable to change his shirt justified AA from disallowing boarding to this person.
JGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 15136 times:
Who decides what clothing can cause offense ? What about colours that clash, or last years Prada ? It's one person's opinion. Did the FA in question bother to check with other pax on the flight if they would be offended ? The entire plane could have been full of porn actors or frat brothers off to Costa Rica for a strip-show 'n keg weekend. I guarantee there wouldn't have been a single complaint from other pax if the FA had let them board - she was just exercising her personal narrow-minded notions of decency.
Joni From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 15104 times:
As an interesting continuation of the same theme, male passengers might complain that the flight attendants' clothes offend them and must be removed.
Or, imagine the horror on an AA flight if the caterers substitute penis-shaped pasta for regular pasta in the inflight meals. Or, imagine if the passenger's t-shirt had only been noticed after takeoff - the plane would obviously have to divert and be evacuated with slides. If this happened over sea, then an emergency landing in water would likely be necessary. After all, anything sexual is worse than a bomb.
: Joni - good point. What happens if the pax had changed into the oh-so-offensive t-shirt after take-off ? Would the FA have had him arrested and shippe
: Of course, it also asks the question "Why wasn't it noticed at checkin"
: How about if AA were to set down a specific dress code, or uniform for passengers, on their tickets? Maybe they could all wear grey Fly American T-shi
: Re: "Why wasn't it noticed at checkin" According to the article, the pax in question was on an inbound connecting flight, so not only did the check-in
: Here is an interesting (if not slightly off-topic) thought then - how do naturists comply with these policies? No luggage and a small bag with only a
: 7LBAC111 - I believe there was a naturist charter flight out of MIA or FLL this year sometime, I forget to where - pax were asked to bring towels to s
: And you can bet if they spilt any coffee, they'd be sued!
: Long Live American! She made the decision to wear a t-shirt with naked boobs, potentially offending children, minors, and other people who do not care
: Hey Jumpseat70, Who is there to judge the appropriation of dress? Let's say If me and my friend were on your flight and there also were a priest in a
: Su, As I said previously, there are certain things which cause offence to the general population - sexual images, religious / political statements etc
: Re: potentially offending children, minors, and other people who do not care for boobs on t-shirts I think you'll find that most small children, to th
: They should have just turned the shirt inside out
: Assume you are about to board a plane with your 7 year old and some guy is wearing a T-shirt with really crude profanities on it. You 7 year old reads
: JGPH1A: Hear hear. I was just going to say. Children are normally much less bothered than their parents by this sort of thing. I am sure you agree tha
: Starlion - I agree with you that attempting to shield kids from nudity is pointless and counterproductive - kids are not stupid. They know from a very
: But again 7LBAC111, Who determines the appropriation of clothing? Why should the priest get away with his dress but if a man wearing t-shirt with boob
: Here's a twist, What if it had been a Buxom Women wearing a tight figure hugging T-Shirt with no means of support, Would there be a problem with the r
: SU I think you and I have different interpretations of 'offensive' I do not find a crying baby offensive - I find it annoying, but there is little can
: What is happening to free speech in the United States? Common misconception. Free speech is alive and well in the US. Re-read the amendment and you wi
: I have to wear my "Sock It To Me" T-Shirt on my next AA flight.
: Goingboeing, Well you are quite right in saying that American Airlines removed the person from the plane, and not any part of the United States govern
: Re: I'm very surprised that the management seem to have backed the crew 100%. So will AA management censure the flight crew of the inbound connecting
: Good point JGPH1A If the person was able to fly the first leg in that tshirt, does that mean that the first leg's crew and passengers have "low standa
: Hmmm, I'm a little torn here... The article says: "The flight attendant basically walked up to us and yelled, 'You have to take off that shirt right n
: While I had no problem with Janet Jackson's "nipplegate" incident earlier this year, it is hard for any of us to comment on the American incident with
: As an American Captain on a US airline I can tell you that it is my responsibility for making sure the attire of our passengers meets a standard of co
: Whats your point MD88? We all know the entire aircraft is your responsibility. How often does the captain go down the back to sniff out the smelly one
: According to American Airlines standards, the shirt was considered indecent and as far as Freedom of Speech, here is a little refresher course. ******
: Regardless of whose rights are what, whatever happened to civility? I certainly have no problem with nudity, nude beaches, topless cocktail waitresses
: Hi 7LBAC111 - I'm assuming that before the cabin crew can kick someone off a flight they have to get the Captain's input/approval. Just guessing here.
: MD 88, Did you know that your European colleagues have the right to remove the load/loud and obnoxious north American friends... [Edited 2004-08-02 16
: I thought this was an aviation forum? Always turns to bash America, unless of course they need the Checks.
: Re: Personally, I would like to see people thrown out of restaurants for using a salad fork to eat their entree. Alas, that will not happen. Lighten u
: KateAV8 You're probably right - but I'd think most captains would support the decision of a fellow crewmember. SU - Nice one...!
: Hey D950 Please read the messages from your fellow countrymen. You guys started it (again), not us...[Edited 2004-08-02 16:35:30]
: Excellent. I'm pleased to see that American has enacted this precedent. Next time I'm on a flight and one of the passengers has a Confederate flag on
: If my crew found it offensive or if a passenger complained, then I would ask them to change. If they refused, I would have escorted them off the plane
: You've got a point 7BAC111...I'd think they would too. So basically an FA can decide what's offensive...in other words...an FA can find something offe
: Jesus Christ! It's a frickin boob AA. We all saw it on the Superbowl. No big deal, I don't think anyone here can honestly say they haven't seen one, a
: Thanks L.10100...LOL!!! You made my day. -Kate
: Petazulu, If a potential investor would come to your boss in t-shirt with boobs, naked or god knows in what, I am sure your boss would have no problem
: Okay I hate to admit it L.1011...your post cracked me up. -Kate[Edited 2004-08-02 16:50:34]
: good job AA. and what happened to free speach? well, AA owns the planes so they can do just about anything they want with them, including not allowing
: Hats off to the AA crew to confront this situation. Rules exist for a reason. Yes, it is at the discretion of the flight crew to take action. Of cours
: Or just that some puritanical Americans are so hung up about anything remotely sexual that the sight of a boob sends them off the deep end. Grow up, A