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UAL To Dump 767 On Transcon's  
User currently offlineIndio66 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 475 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11373 times:

According to the Wall Street Journal, UAL is retiring its 767s from the JFK - LAX, SFO routes. Instead, they will offer three class 757 service starting Oct. 18 to SFO and in December to LAX.

I just flew them last week and the FO was bragging about how UAL flies the widebodies as opposed to the narrows of some of the LCCs.




88 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIndio66 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 475 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11221 times:

Here is the story:

CHICAGO, Aug. 2 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- United Airlines (OTC Bulletin Board: UALAQ - News) today announced that the company will launch new three-cabin Boeing 757 premium domestic service, officially known as "p.s. (SM)," that offers customers more space and comfort, and a superior level of service for United fliers traveling between New York and Los Angeles and New York and San Francisco.
The new p.s. (SM) flights between John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK) and Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) will roll-out from October 18, 2004 to late December 2004, while p.s. SM service between JFK and San Francisco International Airport (SFO) will roll-out from late December 2004 to late February 2005. The new p.s. (SM) flights are open for sale beginning Tuesday, August 3, 2004.

"The level of comfort and distinguished service usually reserved for international flights will soon be available to our customers traveling between New York and Los Angeles and New York and San Francisco," said Martin White, senior vice president -- Marketing. "Our new premium service, p.s. SM, is central in United's business strategy to effectively serve high-yield customers, by offering them an unmatched flying experience with more comfort and a superior level of service in all three cabins."

Key features of United's new p.s. (SM) service include:

* More space and comfort. p.s. (SM) customers can stretch out and enjoy
an environment created especially for their comfort and convenience:
- United First(R)offers customers the most personal space between New
York and the West Coast with the only lie-flat seat on a U.S.
carrier and over five feet of space between rows.
- United Business(R) offers customers wide and spacious leather seats
with an enhanced recline and over four feet of space between rows -
an additional foot more than United Business on other domestic
aircraft.
- Economy Plus(R) is now offered throughout the entire coach cabin and
has a 34" pitch versus the standard 31" pitch, providing customers
enhanced personal space.

* A superior level of service. p.s. (SM) service is the only service
between New York and the West Coast that offers access to laptop power,
phones and JetConnect from every seat.
- p.s. (SM) offers direct 110V laptop power connections that require
no adaptor to customers in all classes of service.
- Verizon Airfone service will keep customers in touch while flying,
and Verizon Wireless subscribers can forward their wireless phone
numbers to the Airfone handsets at their seat.
- JetConnect service keeps customers in contact using their laptops -
with instant messaging, text messaging and e-mail.

* Skillfully prepared and exquisitely presented meals. From appetizer to
salad, from main entree to dessert, United is applying the same elegant
dining options customers have come to expect from international travel
to a cross-country domestic flight.
- United First and Business feature signature Bellini champagne
cocktails, specialty chocolates and new refreshed menu choices that
appeal to the most discerning palates.
- Economy Plus offers new refreshed menu choices.

* Premium onboard entertainment. p.s. (SM) customers have countless
opportunities to pass the time:
- United First and Business customers may view a variety of
entertainment choices via hand-held DVD players and noise-reduction
headsets, along with ten program options. p.s. (SM) will be the only
provider of noise reduction headsets to first and business class
customers flying between New York and California.
- Customized onboard video programming is available to customers in
all classes of service via United's overhead entertainment system.


The new p.s. (SM) service is United's latest step in attracting and serving elite and business customers. Other recent initiatives include:

* United recently launched Ameniti, a new, exclusive luxury travel club,
for the world's most discerning travelers;
* United reconfigured three-cabin 747, 767 and 777 aircraft with up to
five more inches of legroom in the United Economy Plus(TM) and seven
additional inches of legroom in the United Business sections;
* United added new amenity kits that now include Crabtree & Evelyn's
all-natural bath and body care products made exclusively for United
First and United Business customers;
* United enhanced its healthy food choices for United First and United
Business customers traveling from Europe and Japan to the U.S. and on
intra-Pacific flights; and
* United recently hired a new Wine Consultant, Doug Frost, to design its
in-flight wine program.



User currently offlineIndio66 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 475 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11200 times:

Sorry for the double post. All in all, I think that this is a good idea for UAL.

[Edited 2004-08-02 14:16:17]

User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12113 posts, RR: 49
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11182 times:
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This is good for the traveling public, though most carriers are working to streamline and simplify there fleets, not complicate them. My point is that now UA will have a small fleet that is dedicated to running these two routes! You can not switch these aircraft to other routes because of the different configuration, also what happens to the passengers expecting a three class plane and you have to use a different one, because of a mechanical reason.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently onlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3049 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11174 times:

That's all well and good, but does this enhancement NOT include transcons from IAD, their actual hub?


Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineIndio66 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 475 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11135 times:

I am not sure if they can get the premium fare out of IAD (but I may be wrong).

I know all of those cellebs and bankers flying out of NYC are going to love the layflat seats in first (bus sounds pretty nices as well). At least UAL now has someway to differentiate itself (how about adding direct TV for all seats as well, UAL?).



User currently offlineCOEWR2587 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 607 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11117 times:

I like the idea, but the fact that they are now using 757's, I don't like.


Newark Airport...My Home Away From Home
User currently offlineRolo987 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11094 times:

If the whole economy cabin will be Economy plus, what happens if a person has not reached the Mileage Plus level needed to book these seats?

User currently offlineUA744Flagship From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11088 times:

GSPSpot--

UAL already has multiple intl-config 777/763 running per day between IAD and SFO/LAX, sometimes even 744s are placed on said routes.


User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7496 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11083 times:

Well,at least it will cost UA less than flying a 22 yeard-old 762 across country. I hope it will work out.


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineOrd From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 10933 times:

"If the whole economy cabin will be Economy plus, what happens if a person has not reached the Mileage Plus level needed to book these seats?"

Obviously for these flights it does not matter. Anybody who buys an economy ticket, regardless of status, will get an economy plus seat.


User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2689 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10900 times:

Where do they get the name "p.s. SM" from? Sounds confusing for the name of type of service.

User currently offlineUA744Flagship From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10857 times:

SM means servicemark. Just like how TM means trademark.

Because the press release is textual, it does not contain the logotype for p.s. service.

You'll notice when service products within a brand are displayed, they are usually accompanied by an (SM) whereas the master brand tags a (TM).


User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2689 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10828 times:

Thanks for explaining that - I had never understood the difference between SM and TM. So then, for example, Continental Airlines would be (TM) and the President's Club and BusinessFirst would be (SM).

User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7780 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10809 times:

And to think of all those naysayers that doubted the "prediction" of 3-class 757s. Overall it seems like the best product mix that United can offer. The only real competition on the west-coast JFK runs is AA, and you have to wonder how much longer they will operate their 3-class 767-200s. Those planes are almost as old as United's.

The 18 757 fleet is as big as the 767-200 fleet. So there doesn't seem to be any issue with not having enough aircraft or having to sub in a 2-class 757 should a 3-class plane go MX.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineSafetyDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3795 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10750 times:

I am quite impressed with the service that UAL is going to reach, but I do not want fly transcon in a 757, regardless of what service they offer. I would take an AA 767 over a 757 any day for transcon service.

starting Oct. 18 to SFO and in December to LAX
I believe that LAX is first, and then SFO.

What is going to happen to the UAL 767s, and what will supplement what the UAL 757s used to fly?

 Smile
-Will



"She Flew For What We Stand For"
User currently offlineUA744Flagship From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10737 times:

The 757 ps fleet will only number 13.

Not all the 762 fleet is currently operating, and the p.s. 757s are earmarked for JFK-SFO/LAX exclusively, though they could be tested on other selected routes.

13 planes for 12 daily SFO/LAX-JFK seems perfect. With a sub fleet of 13 you can have each plane doing about 10-12 hours of utilization (1 RT) per day (block time for these transcons is 5-6 hours), plus a spare.


User currently offlineJz From United States of America, joined May 1999, 252 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10703 times:

Curious... looks like UA is trying to cater these 2 routes more exclusively for the business traveller. They are trading wide body cabin for more leg rooms and less crowd. The re-modeled 757 will be more like a enlarged biz jet. I guess UA will likely only have premium price on JFK-LAX/SFO routes. The budget traveller will be departing from LGA and routed through ORD then. This indicates UA is leaving all the budget travellers wanting to depart JFK for West Coast to AA/DL/JetBlue -- who all have direct flights from JFK. Only time will tell whether this will succeed.

Any case, what does p.s. stand for?


User currently offlineUA744Flagship From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10596 times:

What does it stand for?



Pics:
http://www.unitedps.com/presskit/


User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7496 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10565 times:

I wonder if as part of a refit,they'll all be repainted ?


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16285 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10555 times:

Will this mark the retirement of the 762 fleet from UA? Or will the 762's be redeployed?






Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlinePA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2008 posts, RR: 23
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10555 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

UA744Flagship,
This is a bold move by UA to be sure. However, are the transcon routes going to be served exclusively by 757ps aircraft? If so, what implications does this have on the leisure market? 72 seats in Y+ does not make it possible to for any significant group movements. Will UA retain some 763 frequencies?



It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
User currently offlineSafetyDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3795 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10528 times:

This indicates UA is leaving all the budget travellers wanting to depart JFK for West Coast to AA/DL/JetBlue
And HP.

This is a bold move by UA to be sure. However, are the transcon routes going to be served exclusively by 757ps aircraft? If so, what implications does this have on the leisure market? 72 seats in Y+ does not make it possible to for any significant group movements. Will UA retain some 763 frequencies?
What will happen to the pulled 757s for PS in terms of replacing them?

-Will



"She Flew For What We Stand For"
User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7496 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10520 times:

Yzy717,the 762's are gone by June 05. They'll be 23 years old by then,same age as when the 727's were retired  Sad


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineD950 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 493 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (10 years 2 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10479 times:

If they are going to redeploy the 762's, it shoud be a shuttle between MJV-VCV. I have flown these dirt bags for 10+ years and gladly go LGA-DEN-LAX to avoid them.


Resting on your laurels is a synonym for flirting with disaster
25 Post contains images COEWR2587 : So these planes though still won't have any PTV's, right?
26 UA744Flagship : However, are the transcon routes going to be served exclusively by 757ps aircraft? Just SFO/LAX-JFK with 6 flights a day in each direction. If so, wha
27 Post contains images SafetyDude : What will happen to the pulled 757s for PS in terms of replacing them? Added A320 utilization. Then what happens to the 320s, or are they not that uti
28 N757kw : What will be the seat numbers in the three classes? I did not see it in the article. N757KW
29 Yyz717 : Yzy717,the 762's are gone by June 05. They'll be 23 years old by then,same age as when the 727's were retired Thanks UnitedFan. I figured as much. I'm
30 Gigneil : We might all be, but the average business traveller doesn't care. He'll prefer the upgraded service and amenities. I would rather good service than AA
31 Rsmith6621a : Fillier I L L l E R[Edited 2004-08-02 19:06:03]
32 Artsyman : While personally this means little to me as I do not fly UAL, I do think it funny because all the UAL lovers on here constantly attack Continental on
33 Gigneil : I disagree entirely. JFK-LAX/SFO is not for the cheap traveller. Carriers have had no problem getting good yields in the premium cabins in past years,
34 PA006 : Seat numbers are: F12, C26, Y72 = 110 according to the press kit. I would have thought that first class will be 3 abreast. 4 seems to give a very narr
35 Fliboyz : I think that UA is playing with fire here. I just rejoined because I HAD to comment on this topic. I work for a competing airline, and many many times
36 SHUPirate1 : What about the passenger who flies, for example, JFK-SFO/LAX-LAS or vice-versa, as I have done in the past...I could just imagine flying LAS-SFO on Te
37 Gigneil : To make my point short, It does not matter if you have flat beds, a 5-course meal service, extra amenities, etc. The Business type customer, Frequent
38 ASTROJET707 : Any ideas, F= 3 abreast J= 4 abreast Y=6 abreast ???? AJ707
39 D950 : As far as I can see, if it is at all possible, UAL will put you on TED from ORD or DEN to the west coast more often than not, yet SFO-LAX is still UAL
40 PA006 : F,C=4 abreast Y = 6 abreast Check out the seating plan in the press kit posted above.
41 UA744KSFO : While I'll miss the 767 between here and JFK (which I practically grew up on), I'm going to wait to try the enhanced 757 service before I criticize it
42 ConcordeBoy : The only real competition on the west-coast JFK runs is AA For premium travel, yes... though B6 (and to a lesser extent, DL) do indeed still influence
43 KKMolokai : I just read in the news how United soon may be faced with repossession of aircraft, exact numbers unknown. If true, this may be what is sparking UA in
44 VSLover : I agree with Fliboyz on a certain aspect. I would take the widebody over the narrow anyday, primarily because seat pitch has been limited in the past
45 TomFoolery : I'm glad to see a major (non LCC/Legacy, whatever you want to call it) start to trend away from stooping to the level of trying to compete with the LC
46 Post contains images Ual777contrail : ARTY, Show me a thread where anybody CARED what fleet type CO flies transcon. Are you just trying to generate some feed back for CO(your company) beca
47 Ord : "I just read in the news how United soon may be faced with repossession of aircraft, exact numbers unknown. If true, this may be what is sparking UA i
48 ORD2PHL : As far as I can see, if it is at all possible, UAL will put you on TED from ORD or DEN to the west coast more often than not, yet SFO-LAX is still UAL
49 Baw716 : Greetings all Thanks to UAL744Flagship for the Press Information. If you have read my posts on this subject, one of the things that I have consistentl
50 UA744Flagship : With that said, and if true, then UA's 3-Class 757 is not an "innovation," rather a last ditch effort to hang on to the trans-con market. This is one
51 UA744Flagship : Another fear is that they are using this special aircraft to capture the high yield business strictly between the JFK-LAX/SFO markets. If this is true
52 N62NA : I know all of those cellebs and bankers flying out of NYC are going to love the layflat seats in first (bus sounds pretty nices as well). At least UA
53 Thrust : Guess this is it for the 762s then...the transcontinental routes were all they were used on anyway for UA...wonder if we can expect other U.S. carrier
54 D950 : Pardon my foolishness, when I go to LAX from ORD I am on Ted on all legs, because I go through LAS most of the time, my mistake.
55 DesertJets : American is the only other carrier to use dedicated 3-class 767-200s on transcon flights. Their 762 are not that much older than United's. I would exp
56 KKMolokai : "This is one of the silliest comments I've ever read. The 3-class 757 has been in planning for nearly a year. The 767-200ERs were slated for retiremen
57 Thrust : If UA's 762s are retired from the trancontinental routes, most are useless...only a few of them are -200ERs. And also, if I am correct, the 767 is not
58 Greg : I've said it before...when you're in F (even us cheapos that fly on upgrades) it makes little difference what equipment you're on. Service on narrowbo
59 N62NA : Service on narrowbodies has always been better than widebodies--and I bet that's true in all classes. How do you come to that conclusion? Just curiou
60 PA110 : This obsession with widebodies is getting completely irrational. As previously pointed out, a downgrade from 767 to 757 was undesirable in the past be
61 Post contains images Flyguyclt : Ok Ok, Some people on here just LOVE this new service. How many of you are going to PAY for it? Or try to scam an upgrade? Gee, that is a new concept.
62 PA110 : Flyguy, I think the transcon market cannot be compared to other routes. Unlike EA who tried expanding First Class across the board, this is a far more
63 Ord : "But just WHO is United? PS? Ted? United? As aviation history has proved time and time again. K.I.S.S. (Keep it simple stupid) and streamlining your p
64 B4real : I sure hope they exclusively use door 2L for boarding. That will keep the 1st class cabin truly nice during the ground time. B4REAL
65 Post contains links HA_DC9 : I just read in the news how United soon may be faced with repossession of aircraft, Here's a link to that story: http://money.cnn.com/2004/08/02/news/
66 Baw716 : A few questions for UAL744Flagship: "United is aiming squarely at the "Corporate Account" segment with this aircraft (i.e. SAG, celebs, movers and sha
67 SFOintern : As a very frequent United traveller on the SFO-JFK route, I say that this news is FANTASTIC. I'm so glad that they're scrappy those crappy, antiquated
68 Gigneil : Those passengers don't exist. Anybody that believes most Manhattan or LA businessmen won't pay to fly this are crazy. My company, at least, doesn't al
69 NYCAAer : I think this is a very bold, innovative idea on the part of United. It's about time one of the U.S. carriers did something innovative. It's an interes
70 UA744Flagship : 1. Do you know that for an absolute fact that the SAG, celebs, movers and shakers, finance magnets, etc. that you speak of are flying United now and p
71 Post contains images Flyguyclt : Gig: MGM Grand did not make it. Regent Air did not make it. Most of the top end folks are flying the fractional jet ownership. They are not flying leg
72 CV990 : Hi! I must admit this will the end of the 767 era in the transcon business. I think the airplane did a great job in this route and I hope UA can as s
73 Ord : "MGM Grand did not make it. Regent Air did not make it. Most of the top end folks are flying the fractional jet ownership. They are not flying legacy
74 Jasepl : I've probably got this all wrong, but since UA are at the edge now, shouldn't they do things that won't cost them money until they straighten things o
75 Alphascan : Finally, Finally, Finally UA starts playing to its strengths. This is a brilliant move. I agree with Ord; you can't compare Regent and MGM or even Mid
76 Post contains images Flyguyclt : Name recognition does not equal profits. If you can't make money you can't make money. These experiments cost UA and every other airline too much mone
77 Luv2fly : I have to agree with Flyguyclt if the market was there Midwest would be doing far better than they are. Granted Midwest does not fly this route per sa
78 UA744KSFO : Thrust, Actually, AC uses the 763 on some of its transpacific routes out of YVR, but I think it is the only carrier to use the 767 across the pacific
79 Ord : Flyguyclt, My point about United having name recognition is that unlike an MGM or Regent, United is a known entity in this market. The airline already
80 Gigneil : UAL is doing the right thing. The NY, LA, and SF business markets are different than the entire rest of the country. I am hardly a "scam artist" looki
81 PSU.DTW.SCE : Again, this all depends on how United chooses to price the flights. If they sell rock-bottom and fill the plane on upgrades, this won't work. They'll
82 Post contains images Flyguyclt : Ok guys, you can back off now. Just my opinion. Again, and listen carefully. If I am wrong and this works. You will have my apology loud and clear. I
83 FLY777UAL : Flyguyclt-- Just curious as to which fares you are referring to. You do realize that United isn't in the game to make a boatload of money off of their
84 Post contains images Flyguyclt : Yes the Higher fares are great for the airlines. But what percentage of people "pay" for it? The legacy airlines are going to have to find a way to fi
85 UALFAson : To throw my $0.02s worth in and beat a dead horse: Several people keep saying that "nobody" pays premium class fares anymore, but that's not true. The
86 FLY777UAL : Flyguyclt-- No, no, no, no, and no. Why are you so stuck on the fact that an airline needs cheap seats to survive and thrive?! What may work for JetBl
87 RayChuang : I think it will be an interesting experiment to see if passengers are willing to fly the 757-200 in the p.s. configuration. I think they will, if only
88 FLY777UAL : The article regarding the "reposession" of United's aircraft paints the situation in a little darker light than what it actually is. If the lessors do
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