Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
TravelCity Direct/Air Atlanta Europe Flights  
User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4124 posts, RR: 11
Posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7418 times:

Hey, i've been interested in these companies for a while, and its great to see them still operating the B747-200. I had a few questions regarding the companies/airlines.

Firstly, are they all under one operator, but represent two airlines? Because TF-ABA and TF-ABP are in full Travel City Direct colours, TF-ATD is all white and TF-ARG has the basic blue belly (form BA Utopia) with "Air Atlanta Europe" titles.

Also, they seem to operate under different codes. For example, today there are four flights to Sanford, 2 from MAN and 2 from LGW. One from both MAN and LGW operate under 5A, and the other one from each operate under EUK. On Airlinecodes.co.uk 5A is some US regional carrier. So is this all the same carrier.

Thanks
-Stephen

50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGeoffm From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7354 times:

Firstly, Travelcitydirect is a tour company which owns no planes. Air Atlanta (last year TCD used European Aviation) operates the planes for TCD, although I'm not sure how crewing works - probably Air Atlanta Europe pilots and FAs, although the latter wear TCD livery. Confused?

We used them last year on LGW-SFB. Six hours late due to technical problems earlier in the week, and the delays from that hadn't been recovered. Two weeks later they were on time going back. Food was okay, service was fine, but the IFE was shaky at best - the centre block of seats in the rear cabin didn't have any audio.

I believe then the flight code was EAF. Obviously that was the old leasing company, so it is more likely to be an Air Atlanta code now.

Geoff M.


User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24947 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7343 times:

Air Atlanta Europe use the EUK code, I believe the travel city direct flights use TCY codes


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineDiesel1 From UK - Wales, joined Mar 2001, 1638 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7349 times:

Stephen.. in answer to your question, yes they are the same carrier, BAA.com shows 5A121 from SFD, and Flytecomm.com shows EUK121 - one and the same flight

To further confuse the situation, (as GKirk states) the Travelcity charter from SFD to CWL was shown operating with a TCY code this week according to the arrival details on Teletext.

Incidentally, not a happy flight - well at least for the passengers due to return this week.

24 hour delay due to engine fault and many unhappy with an unexpected fuel stop at SNN on the outbound too.

[Edited 2004-08-06 12:31:19]

[Edited 2004-08-06 12:57:26]


I don't like signatures...
User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24947 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7319 times:

Diesel1, I would suspect that the outbound stop at SNN was a planned fuel stop as I dont think a 747 can carry a full load of pax non-stop to SFB


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4124 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7293 times:

So, in general all 4 B747-200's are owned by Travel City Direct or Air Atlanta Europe, and they are the same operator. So, for example EUK121 may be TF-ABA one week (TCD colours) and then TF-ATD the next?

GKirk, are you saying that because it wouldn't have the range, or are you saying it because it would not be able to land at SFB with full loads and fuel? Because the B747-200 sure has the range to operate UK-Florida flights.

I understand that flights in and out of Manchester carry TCY and EUK codes, as if its a codeshare. Also, on the charter timetables for MAN and LGW the 5A flights are shown as EAF, so its something to do with European Air Charter. My guess is that EUK are taking the passengers who were booked on EAF charters to SFB because 4 flights a day to Sanford (Thurs, Fri and Sat) is a lot from just two airports.


-Stephen


User currently offlineGLAGAZ From UK - Scotland, joined Feb 2004, 1983 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7290 times:

Anyone know if either operator will return to GLA this summer or is that the programme finished? Was nice to see 2 747's at GLA  Smile


Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
User currently offlineDiesel1 From UK - Wales, joined Mar 2001, 1638 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7276 times:

GKirk - that's right - I've reworded it to unexpected as the airline explained that the 747 used that week had insufficient MTOW with pax and fuel to go the full distance - this infers that the 747s normally used do..

Stephen

The Travelcity colourscheme 747s areowned by Air Atlanta Europe and chartered by Travelcity Direct

The flights are not 'codeshare' - more like the TCY flightcode is a bit of selfgloss applied by Travelcity Direct

That EAF are referred to, is simply out of date information though you are correct in stating that these are ex EAF flights.
One of the key reasons for the problems EAF suffered earlier in the year was the cancellation of the contract with Travelcity Direct, when they (Travelcity) contracted Air Atlanta Europe instead. IIRC the only cancellation notice that Travelcity had to give to EAF was 24 hours... As EAF had acquired additional 747s (the ex Virgin Atlantic aircraft) this left them in a poor situation and hence the voluntary creditors agreement and the loss of many hundreds of jobs of EAF staff.



I don't like signatures...
User currently offlineGeoffm From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7261 times:

GKirk - no, a full load can do the distance, just as we did last year. Don't know about the freight situation - if even they take any - but full pax load can certainly do it normally. Also, we used the EAF code last year, not TCY. Airport monitors only showed the EAF code whereas other codeshares show all possible codes (eg BA/AA, VS/CO).

Planesarecool - as I already said, Travelcitydirect do NOT own the planes.

Geoff M.


User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24947 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7273 times:

Planesarecool/Diesel1, no I was thinking that it stopped at SNN due to the short runway at CWL.
GLAGAZ, they will definitly return to GLA next summer, as well as a new weekly flight from NCL with the 747.



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineGLAGAZ From UK - Scotland, joined Feb 2004, 1983 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7257 times:

Sorry GKirk, I knew they were returning next year. What I meant was will they be around for a few more weeks this year?


Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24947 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7237 times:

Geoffm, LGW has a long runway, I was talking about the CWL-SFB flight which stopped at SNN, as said by Diesel1. I didnt think it would be able to do nonstop CWL-SFB due to the shortish runway at CWL.
EAF is indeed European Air Charter, who operated the flights on behalf of TCY, this year TCY have come to an agreement of some sort with Aitr Atlanta to paint some of their a/c in TCY colours.



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineDiesel1 From UK - Wales, joined Mar 2001, 1638 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7213 times:

Link for the story on the problems with this weeks SFD-CWL flight

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/tm_objectid=14499437%26method=full%26siteid=50082%26headline=delay%2dstrands%2dholidaymakers%2din%2dus-name_page.html



I don't like signatures...
User currently offlineJeffDCA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7179 times:

The 742 has way more than enough range to do any UK based destination - SFB. I think GKirk has hit the spot with the runway length at CWL. If the runway isn't long enough, only a limited payload can be carried, resulting in a stop at SNN.

Cheers,

Jeff


User currently offlineGeoffm From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7161 times:

Yeah, sorry Gkirk, I assumed the statement "as I dont think a 747 can carry a full load of pax non-stop to SFB" was in general rather than "as I dont think a 747 can carry a full load of pax non-stop to SFB *from* CWL".

Geoff M.


User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4124 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7136 times:

I never said that the aircraft were owned by TravelCity Direct, i was just wondering, because of the different colour schemes, all 4 B742's were under the same operator.

Didn't the Cardiff flight originate at Gatwick, as on BAA there was a departure to "Cardiff and Sanford." Or was that just the positioning of the aircraft?

Thanks
-Stephen


User currently offlineGeoffm From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7112 times:

I think you did! "So, in general all 4 B747-200's are owned by Travel City Direct or Air Atlanta Europe" (reply #5). No matter how I turn that around, you are still suggesting that one or t'other owns the planes!

Geoff M.


User currently offlineJamotcx From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1037 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7110 times:

OK guys, seeing as I deal with both flights everytime they go out, I'll try to clear up whats going on.

What has already been stated is that TravelCityDirect have 2 planes painted up "BP" and "BA". Both planes belong to Air Atlanta Icelandic, and are chartered by TCY (The code we work from for TravelCity Direct flights.)

On these 2 planes there is a 3 class service, 22F, 29J and 398Y. The F seats being in the nose, the J seats being normal seats but upstairs and an upgraded meal. And then Y taking up the rest of the plane.

Air Atlanta Europe also have 2 planes, "RG" based at MAN and "TD" based at LGW. I'm not sure how you get a seat on these planes, apart from the days when they operate extra TCY flights. But anyways these operate as EUK, and "RG" has 472Y seats filling the plane.

Anyways to answer your question all these planes are owned by Air Atlanta Icelandic, and crewed by Air Atlanta Icelandic crews, who all wear the standard Air Atlanta Icelandic uniforms.

Also these aircraft do at the moment seem to be unreliable, and never seem to push on time as the engineers keep playing with the aircraft.

Also the TravelCity Direct flights operate only to Sanford, but EUK have a flight to Paphos every Sunday.


Jamo


User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4124 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7085 times:

Geoff,

Precisely, in saying that, i meant that they were all under one operator rather than 2 different ones. Perhaps saying.

Jamo, thanks for clearing that up. Which of TF-ABA and TF-ABP is based at Gatwick. A month ago i saw ABA there but last sunday i saw ABP there.

EUK also operate to Dalaman, Sharm El Sheikh and Larnaca by the way.

-Stephen


User currently onlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2600 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7085 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Diesel1 is quite correct about the TCY code being "self-gloss" by Travel City  Smile

It is not an official code, but is used on airport displays, tickets etc so passengers think they are on a "Travel City" aircraft. All operational aspects of the flight refer to Air Atlanta Europe and the EUK code.

It's the same situation as the British Airways franchise operators like GB Airways, a BA____ flight number is shown on tickets and passenger displays, but operationally it is a GB Airways aircraft and crew, and the real flight number is a GB Airways callsign GBL____ for ATC and operational purposes.

Interestingly, Air Atlanta's MAN-MCO operation for Virgin Atlantic uses Virgin flight numbers and ATC callsign, reflecting the long-term subcharter aspect of this operation...

Just cos a company's name is on the side of an aircraft, doesn't make them an airline, or mean that they are actually operating the flight!

Regards
CROSSWIND


User currently offlineJamotcx From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1037 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7077 times:

Which of TF-ABA and TF-ABP is based at Gatwick

Thats a good question. We had BP at MAN for a couple of months, and now its changed to BA. Not sure what the future plans are.

There are a few differences on the aircraft from a PAX point of view. BP doesnt have PTV's but BA does. And BA has leather seats in Y forward of L/R4 and cloth aft of there. BP has cloth on all its Y seats. Again not sure if they have changed BP as I havent seen it for a couple of weeks.


Jamo


User currently offlineJeffDCA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7039 times:

To start with, BA was LGW based, and BP was MAN based, but like you said, it does seem to change every now and again. Maybe it's to give the pax a bit of fairness, what with one aircraft having PTV's, and leather seats, but the other not.

Interestingly, Air Atlanta's MAN-MCO operation for Virgin Atlantic uses Virgin flight numbers and ATC callsign, reflecting the long-term subcharter aspect of this operation...

Is the MAN VS 742 a dry lease then?

Cheers,

Jeff


User currently offlineMiamix707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7014 times:

That's what I thought, that name Travelocity DIrect sounds more like a tour company not an airline. Are they going to operate to SFB all year or just summer?

someone said those planes seem to be unreliable, hey i'll believe it

I think the first day of this season to have the two flights at SFB, I drove up to see them. When one of the 747s departed I got my share of shots. It positioned itself on the runway, moved forward but quickly exited the runway. It came back again a second time and did the same, i thought it was taking off when it just moved down the runway into a taxiway and then back to the gate this time.

I felt bad for the passengers, back to the terminal.


User currently offlineGeoffm From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6977 times:

Don't get Travelocity and Travelcity Direct mixed up! They are completely seperate companies.

http://www.travelcitydirect.com/

Interesting, they claim the seat pitch is 32" - which is more than BA and Virgin's! I remember it was adequate last year, albeit on the EAF planes rather than the AAE planes.

One thing I don't like about TCD is their seating policy. You can pay £10pp to reserve your seat. What they don't tell you is that is simply requesting a certain type of seat (aisle, window), or that you'll be seated together as a family. It does not allow you to select 45A, for example.

Geoff M.


User currently offlineMadness From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6969 times:

TravelCityDirect use the code TSC and they are ALWAYS delayed!

25 Whitehatter : TSC is Air Transat TravelCity is TCY
26 Post contains images Planesarecool : No, TSC is Air Transat, yes the flight to Toronto is delayed today from Gatwick, and my friend is on that one . It pushed back at 12:45, 1:05 minutes
27 Post contains images JeffDCA : Are they going to operate to SFB all year or just summer? I believe so. My parents were looking at coming over in November, and TCY had flights availa
28 Jamotcx : The EUK and TCY were both late again in getting off. I know the TCY was over an hour late, even though they started boarding pax at 1330 (STD 1400). I
29 Miamix707 : That wasn't by any chance TF-ABP in the middle of May was it? Funnily enough, my parents were over visitng after flying on it, and i was trying to hel
30 Post contains images Geoffm : Jamotcx, the answers are on the web link I posted TCD Sunshine upperdeck (34") from £99pp AAE Premium Cabin (upperdeck, 45") from £179pp TCD Sunshin
31 Post contains images Planesarecool : I think one of the main reasons for the delays, is the turn around times. For example, today 5A123 arrives into Gatwick at 11:00 (Expected 10:45 ) but
32 Post contains images JeffDCA : Yes that was in the middle of May! hah no way so they were on that departing flight? man, I felt so bad for those passengers, and being a new service
33 Jamotcx : Ok guys TF-ABA is proper fooked. Supposed to leave MAN today at 1340, and wont be going anywhere till at least 0830 tommorow. Apparantly they're havin
34 Planesarecool : Jamo, The Manchester flight has done a lot better than the Gatwick flight. The Manchester flight is expected at 03:20 tomorrow morning, and the Gatwic
35 Jamotcx : LOL, I didnt know that the Gatwick flight went tech too! Yeh it would have been BP as BA operated the MAN service. It eventually left at about 1030 to
36 Philsquares : Believe me, when dealing with Air Atlanta be prepared for the worst. They are just about the worst in the industry....
37 Post contains images Miamix707 : seems like EVERYTHING out of SFB is late. I went to get AviaJet, nice surprise which turned out to be the EuroAtlantic 1011.. , well it was late by ab
38 Lowsonboy : TF-ABP must have serious problems, it was badly delayed about 3 days ago and had maintenance and an engine run before departing. I came back from my d
39 Philsquares : Believe me, I have plenty of mates who work there, in the flight deck and they are all trying to leave as soon possible. FWIW, the TF reg planes are n
40 Post contains images Diesel1 : Philsquares, spill the beans... tell us some of these stories we wouldn't believe...
41 Post contains images Planesarecool : Another reason for ALL the delays is that from Thursday morning to Sunday night, all the aircraft have tight schedules. All 4 go to Sanford on thursda
42 Cambrian : They should change their name to "Travel City Delayed"... A flight from Sanford to CWL, due to arrive yesterday (Wed) at 07.30 landed in Cardiff this
43 Post contains images GKirk : Cambrian, today is Thursday
44 Jamotcx : That will be the knock-on effect from the weekend I think when the aircraft were stuck in MCO, well the 2 MAN based ones were. "BA" and "RG" were both
45 Diesel1 : The already extensive delays to this weeks CWL flight to SFB were further compounded by the aircraft going tech at CWL ( at the end of the runway just
46 Planesarecool : Diesel1, True, but i happen to remember EAF had a fair share of delays too, although not to the length of any of these delays through EUK. Jamotcx, So
47 Jamotcx : Planesarecool, I didnt even know there was a "RO" now. Any ideas what config its in? Also wheres this aircraft come from, another ex BA bird? I was su
48 Post contains images Planesarecool : TF-ARO was the bird used for the Olympic flame tour, like TF-ARG was the backup. However TF-ARG went straight into service, while TF-ARO went to Luxem
49 David_itl : TF-ARO arrived at MAN yesterday and was still in this morning. David
50 Planesarecool : Well, TF-ABA is back at Gatwick. I'm guessing TF-ABP and TF-ARO both moved up north to Manchester to make up for some knock on delays. TF-ABA and TF-A
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Air Atlanta Europe To End Gatwick Flights? posted Mon Aug 22 2005 09:38:47 by 747boy
Air Atlanta Europe/TCD To Get Two B744s posted Sat Apr 8 2006 16:00:46 by Planesarecool
Air Atlanta Europe At It Again posted Fri Aug 19 2005 13:04:29 by Candid76
Air Atlanta Europe 747 300 posted Sat Mar 19 2005 11:09:15 by 747boy
Air Atlanta Europe 747s Marana-Bangor-? posted Sat Dec 11 2004 18:57:01 by ChrisNH
Air Atlanta Europe posted Tue Jul 22 2003 10:29:54 by Na
Air Canada Edmonton-Europe Flights In September posted Mon Jun 26 2006 05:07:25 by Simairlinenet
Help With Air Atlanta's LGW-SSH Flights posted Sun May 9 2004 23:42:32 by Horus
Myrtle Beach Direct Air & Tours posted Thu Nov 16 2006 21:23:13 by Tooluther
MSY: Direct Air In The News Again posted Fri Oct 13 2006 17:02:45 by 71Zulu