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What Do We Think Of The New T1 In YYZ?  
User currently offlineYYZACGUY From Canada, joined May 2004, 159 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5133 times:

Hey I do not know if this was discussed but what is the word on the now 4 month old T1 in YYZ. Its not complete I know but what do the members on A net think?


ACYYZT1 thats me
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBa97 From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5110 times:

Once you figure out the orientation of the parking garage-it is brilliant.
The terminal itself- It is ok but not the wonder I was expecting. I find many of the signs confusing-especially from the garage to the departures level. Pack a lunch if you come in on a Vancouver flight and are at the end of the pier. It is almost as bad as T3 from the BA gates

I was surprised that there is nothing stopping people from outside wandering into the domestic baggage claim area.

The use of the auto kiosks is great-especially with the right near the entrace from the garage.

So I give it a 7 ot of 10. Maybe more familiarity and use will show its brilliance.



there is economy class, business class, first class...then Concorde..pure class
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5098 times:

I find many of the signs confusing

The signage at the airport is absolutely horrendous. Try following the signs to the hotel shuttles on the lowest level and you WILL wind up walking in circles. Yes, the signs point right back to each other.

The flow for arriving traffic is also faulty as it splits domestic arrivals into seperate streams on different levels for passengers with and without checked luggage. That creates many hassles for meet-and-greeters.

I expected more for all the $ spent.


User currently offlineDgeHfx From Canada, joined May 2001, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5061 times:

My first experience with T1- NEW was upon arrival from LHR. Our aircraft parked at the temporary mid-field terminal which is far nicer than the New terminal but which is due to be destroyed. We then boarded a bus which, in spite of the tunnel under the main N-S runway, still took a long time to reach T1 for customs and immigration because of traffic conflicts with aircraft on the ground. No signs greet passengers upon arrival so we passed through 2 different sets of doors. One set let to a waiting room which required a turn and passage through another set of doors to join the other passengers in a narrow hallway. At the end of the hallway there was an arrow pointing to the left for Arrivals. When we turned to the left there was a dead end with a small lift - hardly enough to accommodate more than a few passengers at a time. There was also an escalator going up. As the arrow pointed directly Left and not diagonally Up there was confusion about our route.
Once upstairs - the correct choice, as it happened - there was a large immigration hall. After passport control it was necessary to turn to the left and walk to the far far end of the hall to go around a glass barrier and then walk all the way back to a point a metre or two in front of where the passport control booth was in order to take an escalator down to the baggage hall.
The immediate impression was of a monochromatic hangar with all the charm of a hockey arena. Given Toronto is a main point of entry to the country and that hockey is a national sport perhaps this was the desired effect. The signage is confusing or non-existent, the pedestrian traffic patterns are counter-intuitive and the distances are beyond human scale.
I understand that the artwork in the building cost over $1m but the only art I noticed was a collection of stained glass people falling from the sky through a hole in the ceiling at the entrance to the Domestic Departures wing. Not exactly a comforting image....
I strongly urge passengers to bring a lunch and something to drink and plenty of patience. If you're trying to find the hotel shuttle busses or public transport stops bring glass cutters to go outside as there are no exit doors at the bottom of the escalators...if you can find the correct escalators and correct floor.

The shocking thing is that many people were paid to wander through the building before it opened to test the signage and logic of the facilities. Clearly, there was either no feedback or it was dismissed entirely.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5029 times:

The shocking thing is that many people were paid to wander through the building before it opened to test the signage and logic of the facilities. Clearly, there was either no feedback or it was dismissed entirely.

These "paid" people consisted of spotters, retired people and any locals with nothing better to do -- many of whom who rarely fly (certainly never on business) and would be happy to wander around a maze if someone told them it was an airport terminal. So it is unlikely their advice would have yielded any efficiency value.

Even the anet spotters commentary about the terminal-testing consisted primarily of the artwork, the free lunch, and window views to the tarmac -- hardly input valuable to building an efficient terminal.

The pre-opening "testers" should have been business people exclusively "travelling" by themselves.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4952 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5017 times:

The terminal is very impressive.

However, I do find it quite bland in there.. the white and grey makes it somewhat depressing. A colleague of mine recently said "this is a great place to commit suicide in".. not sure what that meant Big grin

I am a fan of the linear terminal as opposed to the horseshoe multi-pier, which entails. much more walking and confusion. Once the whole terminal is complete in 2010, arriving at gate 128, and walkign to the furthest transborder gate will really be a hike never seen before.

In my opinion, the Detroit World-Gateway is the ultimate efficient terminal. One linear structure with an interior monorail to cut down the walking distance. One can never get lost in the World Gateway. And for a terminal of its size, there is surprisingly little walkign to be done.



User currently offlineKlik From Canada, joined Oct 2000, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5000 times:

The GTAA should follow the path of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, and hire the same people who do the signage for AMS. LGW, EWR and JFK have fantastic AMS-esque signage - very easy to follow. Meanwhile, YYZ is a joke - no really, I seriously think security are watching on a camera and laughing their asses off when people keep going in circles.

Really - why the GTAA doesn't concentrate more on passenger convenience is beyond me... and this comes from someone who works there...

klik

[Edited 2004-08-08 17:26:27]

User currently offlineAWspicious From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4972 times:

YYZ717;
Boy... You sure got us pegged. No, I mean, seriously...!  Laugh out loud

Anyway... The GTAA got our input, for all that it's worth. What they did or didn't do with it is anybody's guess. And, if anyone was paid, they sure kept tight-lipped about it!


User currently offlineYOW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4958 times:

If you're at YYZ and you're thirsty, I'd suggest the water fountain. No way I'll pay $2.75 for a measly 600mL pop. Heck the pop machine at YRB-Resolute Bay only charges $3.00 (but for a can mind you) and it's +2,000 km away from the closest road.

As for the building itself, the baggage claim area is nice, but the rest is a white morgue.

At check-in the FIDS are tiny, with a tiny font and are few and far between. If you're flying Rapidair, gone are the days of just having to walk a few metres from check-in to boarding. Ironically, WS operates their AirBiz product out of the old Rapidair area in T2. Rapidair is almost an after-thought in the new bulding.

For the amount of money the GTAA has spent (so far) they sure didn't get much bang for the buck asthetically or in terms of passenger comfort. YOW's T-New, even though it's of course much smaller, is way nicer. It's colourful, has nice architecture, much of the art was donated to the airport authority, has fantastic seating (including comfy couches), not to mention an observation area. Oh yeah and it opened 6 months early and on budget. Same can't be said for T1-New...but the exact opposite can.

Like Mark, I too prefer DTW's T-New and when T1 is completed, unless there is an inter-pier shuttle in the works, that will be one heck of a loooooooooonnnnnnngggggggg walk.

[Edited 2004-08-08 18:13:05]

User currently offlineBa97 From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4924 times:

The signage-ugh- I walked in from the parking garage and followed the sign for departures and ended up at a security check point on some floor inbetween departures and arrivals. Then I ended up at the baggage claim--I did this circle 3 times. Then finally running not to miss a flight, I got 2 co- workers on my cell to direct me as to where they were-outside the terminal.

You are all right- it is clear this terminal was not thought out by those who travel. When they finish it, they will need rest stops or mini hotels to rest to get from end to end. Will they be building tunnels like Frankfurt? I would take LHR anyday.







there is economy class, business class, first class...then Concorde..pure class
User currently offlineAirbusfanYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2002, 1431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4911 times:

I definitely wouldn't take LHR over anything, what an ordeal that airport is.

I have flown out of the new terminal about 7 or 8 times since the opening and have written a review on http://www.yyzspotter.com. My biggest complaint with the terminal is the ridiculous signage all over the place, but the worst is the parking garage. It is very confusing and completely devoid of any semblance of order. The actual checkin process and security clearance is smooth and efficient. Unlike most people I don't think the walk from the end of the pier to the baggage claim is that long.. definitely not longer than ORD, LHR, ATL etc.
The big thing like FLYYUL said, (as much I hate to agree with Marc Big grin) is the starkness of the place. The should have used some more wood and had some planters etc. to warm up the terminal, much like how YOW has done in their new terminal.

Cheers,
Kaz



t.dot photography
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4875 times:

Detroit World-Gateway is the ultimate efficient terminal. One linear structure...

Umm, the World Gateway is MULTIPLE parallel linear structures.

horseshoe multi-pier

WTF is a horseshoe multi-pier? The technical term for the GTAA design is a "curvilinear pier satellite" or a "hammerhead".

The pre-opening "testers" should have been business people exclusively "travelling" by themselves.

Business people don't have time to schedule themselves for events 3 weeks in advance and then surrender 4 hours on a weekend to stand in line for a boxed lunch.


User currently offlineWestJetYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4836 times:

One word... it's monumental. I think in appearance it is absolutely spectacular and stunning. However it is extrememly large, and difficult to navigate. Especially for a first time flyer it would be very dominating and intimidating. Not to mention expensive to park at or buy food or anything else in. But it still is quite spectacular...

User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4830 times:

it still is quite spectacular...

Are WestJet employees allowed to praise a terminal occupied by Air Canada? I thought that was a termination offense.

I was actually thinking of trying WestJet on my next trip to Montreal just to see how T2 is hanging on, but I guess your ringing endorsement of T1 New's aesthetics has convinced me to give my business to Air Canada instead. Thanks for helping me make up my mind.


User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7737 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4825 times:

What is the current price tag on T1-New right now???

When I first saw it, driving up the 427 my first impression was that it was huge. As you can see it from the highway a few miles down the road. Up close it is a little less impressive. Rather BLAH, to use an architectual term. Given the amount of money and hype put into the place I can see it becoming a bit of a White Herring if it doesn't meet expectations.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4821 times:

What is the current price tag on T1-New right now???

Approximately $4.4 BILLION.


User currently offlineCPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4773 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4806 times:

I love the idea of not having to circle around for parking spaces anymore with the detectors at each space adding up the number of available spaces in the row. That is really a HUGE improvement and the first time I have seen this technology. Makes the whole experience of going to the airport a bit less stressful.

On the downside, the directions from the parking garage to the terminal are not obvious at first. And the check-in area although a huge improvement over T1 and T2 and (great ventilation also a huge improvement) it is kind of underwhelming compared to even T3. T1 new reminds me of Stansted but with better sightlines and a bit more light. But then again Stansted I am sure cost a fraction  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offlineYhmfan From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 607 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4789 times:

  • I personally have not noticed this but someone who was meeting a passenger told me that there are very few facilities before the security checkpoint.

  • Signage is poor. I am a fairly frequent flyer and my first time at T1, I had to circle around a couple of times.

  • Plenty of parking spaces but good luck finding your way to and from terminal.

  • Great for plane watching.


  • As far as the appearance go, Henry Ford once said :"You can have any colour you want as long is it is black". Well one of his descendants must have been the designer for the interior of T1. If you like grey and brushed steel, you will love T1!



  • If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you
    User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
    Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4759 times:

    Business people don't have time to schedule themselves for events 3 weeks in advance and then surrender 4 hours on a weekend to stand in line for a boxed lunch.

    Fair enough. Then conduct surveys of business travellers' favourite terminals and replicate those.

    But don't invite a bunch of spotters to provide input. What do they know?




    Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
    User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
    Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4760 times:

    From somebody who works out of the facility.....

    Aesthetically, size impressive, but bleak boring and institutional. Feels like you're walking through a larger version of the science centre. Facility in desparate need of colour. The $9m artwork? We have a plastic mobile, some paper airplanes, a big aquarium devoid of aquatic life, and a big splat of a paint "fart" adjacent to the Rapidair area. Think a high school project could have produced a better showing. Upon arrival in YVR--the airport projects in volumes British Columbia. Upon arrival in YYZ...nothin'.

    Signage...it's all been said.

    Connectivity is a nightmare. Have no doubts that once everything is housed under one roof/facility, it will be fantastic. AC, GTAA and the Fed Government is working on direct transfer connections between Infield (International) and T-2 (Transborder). That would constitute a great improvement. HOpe I can stick it out till 2008.



    Above and Beyond
    User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
    Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4754 times:

    "Rapidair is almost an after-thought in the new bulding."

    The building wasn't designed for Rapidair or any other Air Canada or other Airline service. It is "supposed to be" common use. T2 was Air Canada's to manipulate as they wished, and if you have no bags, and check in at a kisosk on Level 2 you are very close to the rapidair gates.

    4.4 Billion is the cost of the redevelopment program Sean, not just the terminal building, while it takes up a big chunk of that, this price tag also includes a couple of new runways, and upgrades to the existing runway's taxiways aprons, and cargo facilities.

    I'm not going to be a kool-aid drinker and say the building is perfect. Signage issues are a major problem, and contrary to Neil's comments (not that you ever made it out there for trials anyway) man of the volunteers made some very valid comments, and picked up on a number of issues. All of which have been identified, the problems was and always has been bureaucrat. The fact is that most of the issues identified in the trials are just now being resolved by the constructor. In many cases it was an architectural screw up (its hard to orient a sign when you are looking at a flat blue print) and so the signs package was delivered and installed by the constructors, and then all of the identified problems were submitted to the architects to be re-done as per their contracts.

    As for the garage, it takes some understanding. It is complicated, its really two garages built on top of each other, and within those two garages there are two divisions. Also remember that the garage is not completed yet, there are still two sections to be added on to the garage, bringing the spaces up to 12500, some of the signs delivered in the first package was not meant to be included in the opening of the first phase. The same goes for the terminal building. Its hard to sign a facility that isn't finished yet. A lot of the international signs is misleading because Pier F is still a hole in the ground.

    As important as these problems are it could have been much worse, and we could have ended up with a CLK, where everything looked pretty but none of the systems worked, and the operation almost moved back to HKG.

    Which brings me to the interior. I don't like it either, the art work is for the most part a big joke, with only two (so far) Canadian artists featured in the entire place. But that was their goal, its functional, efficient and modern, they weren't looking to build a place like YVR or YOW's terminals. Can you imagine how much more it would have cost to design the interior of T1new in the same style as the terminals inYVR and YOW with cedar wood rafters, waterfalls, jade/iron sculptures etc etc. I personally think they should have made it more like that, but they were going for something different, something more like what you can find in Europe/Asia today, and I think they did that pretty well. (Wait till you see the crap they are putting into Pier F!!)

    For those that get the chance, check out the museum, Its small but has some interesting stuff in it.




    "Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
    User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
    Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4745 times:

    Facility in desparate need of colour. The $9m artwork? We have a plastic mobile, some paper airplanes, a big aquarium devoid of aquatic life, and a big splat of a paint "fart" adjacent to the Rapidair area.

    The only thing that would pay for more paint or artwork is higher landing fees. Is this what you want? I know it's not what airlines or travellers want.

    As a business traveller, I do not look at terminal paint nor artwork, hence a bare-bones terminal is perfect for my pocket book.




    Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
    User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
    Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4749 times:

    As a business traveller, I do not look at terminal paint nor artwork, hence a bare-bones terminal is perfect for my pocket book.

    But considering that the $ have already been taken out of your pocket book, wouldn't you have preferred to have a slightly more appealing facility?

    To be honest, I don't spend much time wandering the halls. The Air Canada Maple Leaf Lounge upstairs is extremely comfortable so I am perfectly happy to spend my entire pre-boarding experience there.


    User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
    Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4736 times:

    But considering that the $ have already been taken out of your pocket book, wouldn't you have preferred to have a slightly more appealing facility?

    Sounds like addl artwork now and more paint will require addl capital $ and higher landing fees. Hence, no thanks. An airport terminal serves a role as a transportation hub, not a museum or art gallery. It should be clean, efficient and cost effective. Nothing more.

    To be honest, I don't spend much time wandering the halls.

    Then the apparent blandness of T-New should not be a problem Sean.  Smile




    Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
    User currently offlineAirbusfanYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2002, 1431 posts, RR: 26
    Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4667 times:

    Indeed the MLL upstairs is very nice, clean and very European. I was able to chat with the guys from Blue Rodeo the last time I was in there. My only beef about the lounge is as a spotter/photographer you can't see a thing if you're sitting down. But it's still better than the windowless MLL in T2.

    Slawko, please don't tell me Pier F is worse than Pier E. BTW what is the timeline for F? I noticed the rapid rate that things seem to be progressing.

    Cheers,
    Kaz



    t.dot photography
    25 Post contains images YOW : Neil, I have no problem wanting an airport to be built at the lowest possible costs. But paint is paint (or is it?). What's the difference in cost if
    26 FLYYUL : The new Montreal facilities aint any better. The new transborder has white walls and fake wood panellings... its pretty bland
    27 Gmonney : OK here we go... If you buy a new house what are your expectations..... well you want the thing to be built on time and you want to move in as soon as
    28 Post contains images B747-437B : I would be happy to give photo's for display purposes to lessen the white wall effect I'm sure they will be happy to RENT you space for display. It's
    29 Post contains images YYZACGUY : Thanks for all the replies we should send them to GTAA rember its just the 1 finger thats we are talking about there is still more to be built maybe
    30 Post contains images VonRichtofen : "I love the idea of not having to circle around for parking spaces anymore with the detectors at each space adding up the number of available spaces i
    31 Lnglive1011yyz : All: As someone who participated in the GTAA T1-New trials that occured late last year and early into 2004, I have to take a bit of a bite at the comm
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