Kim777fan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 510 posts, RR: 1 Posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1603 times:
A few months back, Aloha announced that they were applying to the FAA for authority to extend one HNL- SNA flight to DCA with a 737NG. This would take two of DCA's coveted "out-of-perimeter" (over 1250 miles) landing/takeoff slots and would have provided the only non-stop to the East Coast from SNA while also providing the only same-plane service between DCA and HNL.
After a while, this press release was pulled from Aloha's website and AS shortly thereafter announced the startup of LAX - DCA service. HP later announced the startup of PHX - DCA service.
Clearly, Aloha's bid was declined as the FAA must have felt that HP and AS had superior bids. I'm going to guess the reason was because AS and HP passengers could connect to other flights out of LAX and PHX respectively, while Aloha passengers would have had considerably more restricted options.
Does anybody else have some more insight into the decision process for granting the takeoff and landing slots at DCA??
Mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22874 posts, RR: 87 Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1571 times:
It's all a balance. The DOT had more applications for service then there were slots available.
There were a couple of surprises. UAL had applied for SFO/DCA as well as DEN/DCA. They were granted DEN/DCA, but not SFO/DCA.
Since DCA pax can already get to Hawaii with a one stop (LAX, or from PHX with the HP code share) I guess the DOT felt that Aloha's application didn't really bring anything new to the table.
DCA/SNA seemed like a fairly good idea to me, but the attitude of the DOT is improve the number of connections available to DCA pax.
Lat41 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 447 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1498 times:
Nonstop to the West Coast from DCA would be tight in certain weather conditions, even for a 73G with blended winglets, which I do not beleive Aloha has. Would there have to be weight restrictions?
Lat41 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 447 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1482 times:
It's the DCA-SAN leg I'm concerned about. The runways at Regan National are very short and do not leave room for too much contingency!
http://www.naco.faa.gov/content/naco/online/airportdiagrams/00443AD.pdf
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1465 times:
HP later announced the startup of PHX - DCA service.
This actually happened years ago. HP has been serving PHX-DCA since a long time now.
I too was surprised UA got DEN instead of SFO, but DEN does open up huge new connecting opportunities that F9 doesn't provide there, and SFO wouldn't have.
Zrb2 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 894 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1438 times:
It's the DCA-SNA leg I'm concerned about. The runways at Regan National are very short and do not leave room for too much contingency for any aircraft trying to reach the West Coast nonstop.
Ok....but the main runway at DCA is 6,869' while the runway at SNA is only 5,701'. Also, the distance between DCA-SNA is 1,982nm while SNA-HNL is listed at 2,240nm
I guess my point is SNA-HNL uses a shorter runway for a longer distance. DCA-SNA should not be a problem with that aircraft.
UALFAson From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 590 posts, RR: 4 Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1409 times:
Aloha and the state of Hawaii whined a bit after they weren't granted a DCA slot, saying it was an offense to the airline and the people of Hawaii who don't have same plane service to their nation's capital.
Yet since then, Aloha has made no effort to introduce service to IAD or BWI, two other airports serving the Washington area that are not slot restricted.
There were threads on a.net speculating that what Aloha really wanted was the high-yield SNA-DCA market and same-plane service to HNL was kind of an afterthought.
It was also Aloha's first time to apply for DCA slots so I'm sure that lowered their position a little bit, although I think the main factor in their rejection was lack of connection opportunities as previously mentioned.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
Lat41 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 447 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1375 times:
Zrb2, I think. your distance calculation from DCA is 300-400 miles short. I did think however that SNA had gotten approval for and already built, their one commercial runway to 7000'. My Mistake. They do however, have over runs on each end where DCA cannot. Also the weather at SNA is a lot more constant as they do not have to contend with snow slush and sand on the runways and and quite as many restrictions and procedures to get in and out as Reagan National does. No way around it, a blown tire, compromised traction or a hiccup in one of the engines just before liftoff can present a real problem for an aircraft fueled and loaded for a coast to coast run at either of those fields.
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1366 times:
Zrb2, I think. your distance calculation from DCA is 300-400 miles short.
Potomac From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 713 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1341 times:
lat41 - aloha, or any airline for that matter, would not have applied for the route unless it was operationally feasible - not to mention the economics of it. yes, DCA rwy1-19 is shorter than a lot of others, but it is capable of most operations. airbus, 757, and next gen 737s, for example, are used at DCA bcs they can operate there under most performance conditions with very few restrictions. there may be some weight restrictions in hot weather for long haul flights - i dont know for sure. and i do know that some aircraft must depart to the south when north operations are in use due to weight, but that has more to do with obstructions along the departure path than it does runway length.
Hawaiian717 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3095 posts, RR: 8 Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1219 times:
Lat41 wrote: a 73G with blended winglets, which I do not beleive Aloha has.
MoneyShot From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 93 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1168 times:
BWI is a great idea for Aloha. I think that a lot of people from the DC area would use that flight. Same point from the SNA side of it. With just one 737 to fill per day, its pretty much an LA to DC flight. I bet it would work, but then what do I know.
Kalakaua From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 5 Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1087 times:
"Yet since then, Aloha has made no effort to introduce service to IAD or BWI, two other airports serving the Washington area that are not slot restricted."
IAD or BWI? That goes against AQ's idea of flying to "small airports."
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
7673mech From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 634 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1065 times:
Lets put one issue to rest ... it was their choice of aircraft. Alohoa would have had no problems with or without the winglets. (They use winglets on their transpac service). Hot or cold, SNA or LAX a 737NG can make the flight easily.
The decision was made on what was best for the flying public ... ie - connections and such.
Kim777fan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 510 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1021 times:
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