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Aloha's SNA - DCA Application  
User currently offlineKim777fan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 510 posts, RR: 1
Posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2097 times:

A few months back, Aloha announced that they were applying to the FAA for authority to extend one HNL- SNA flight to DCA with a 737NG. This would take two of DCA's coveted "out-of-perimeter" (over 1250 miles) landing/takeoff slots and would have provided the only non-stop to the East Coast from SNA while also providing the only same-plane service between DCA and HNL.

After a while, this press release was pulled from Aloha's website and AS shortly thereafter announced the startup of LAX - DCA service. HP later announced the startup of PHX - DCA service.

Clearly, Aloha's bid was declined as the FAA must have felt that HP and AS had superior bids. I'm going to guess the reason was because AS and HP passengers could connect to other flights out of LAX and PHX respectively, while Aloha passengers would have had considerably more restricted options.

Does anybody else have some more insight into the decision process for granting the takeoff and landing slots at DCA??

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25336 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2065 times:
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It's all a balance. The DOT had more applications for service then there were slots available.

There were a couple of surprises. UAL had applied for SFO/DCA as well as DEN/DCA. They were granted DEN/DCA, but not SFO/DCA.

Since DCA pax can already get to Hawaii with a one stop (LAX, or from PHX with the HP code share) I guess the DOT felt that Aloha's application didn't really bring anything new to the table.

DCA/SNA seemed like a fairly good idea to me, but the attitude of the DOT is improve the number of connections available to DCA pax.

So you are right in your assessment.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineLat41 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 472 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1992 times:

Nonstop to the West Coast from DCA would be tight in certain weather conditions, even for a 73G with blended winglets, which I do not beleive Aloha has. Would there have to be weight restrictions?

User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1984 times:

Aloha's 73G's with or without blended winglets could easily make the trip between SNA-DCA.

User currently offlineLat41 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 472 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1976 times:

It's the DCA-SAN leg I'm concerned about. The runways at Regan National are very short and do not leave room for too much contingency!
http://www.naco.faa.gov/content/naco/online/airportdiagrams/00443AD.pdf


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1959 times:

HP later announced the startup of PHX - DCA service.


This actually happened years ago. HP has been serving PHX-DCA since a long time now.

I too was surprised UA got DEN instead of SFO, but DEN does open up huge new connecting opportunities that F9 doesn't provide there, and SFO wouldn't have.

N


User currently offlineZrb2 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 896 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1932 times:

It's the DCA-SNA leg I'm concerned about. The runways at Regan National are very short and do not leave room for too much contingency for any aircraft trying to reach the West Coast nonstop.

Ok....but the main runway at DCA is 6,869' while the runway at SNA is only 5,701'. Also, the distance between DCA-SNA is 1,982nm while SNA-HNL is listed at 2,240nm

I guess my point is SNA-HNL uses a shorter runway for a longer distance. DCA-SNA should not be a problem with that aircraft.


User currently offlineUALFAson From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 730 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1903 times:

Aloha and the state of Hawaii whined a bit after they weren't granted a DCA slot, saying it was an offense to the airline and the people of Hawaii who don't have same plane service to their nation's capital.

Yet since then, Aloha has made no effort to introduce service to IAD or BWI, two other airports serving the Washington area that are not slot restricted.

There were threads on a.net speculating that what Aloha really wanted was the high-yield SNA-DCA market and same-plane service to HNL was kind of an afterthought.

It was also Aloha's first time to apply for DCA slots so I'm sure that lowered their position a little bit, although I think the main factor in their rejection was lack of connection opportunities as previously mentioned.



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User currently offlineLat41 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 472 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1869 times:

Zrb2, I think. your distance calculation from DCA is 300-400 miles short. I did think however that SNA had gotten approval for and already built, their one commercial runway to 7000'. My Mistake. They do however, have over runs on each end where DCA cannot. Also the weather at SNA is a lot more constant as they do not have to contend with snow slush and sand on the runways and and quite as many restrictions and procedures to get in and out as Reagan National does. No way around it, a blown tire, compromised traction or a hiccup in one of the engines just before liftoff can present a real problem for an aircraft fueled and loaded for a coast to coast run at either of those fields.

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1860 times:

Zrb2, I think. your distance calculation from DCA is 300-400 miles short.

It isn't.

N


User currently offlinePotomac From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 713 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1835 times:

lat41 - aloha, or any airline for that matter, would not have applied for the route unless it was operationally feasible - not to mention the economics of it. yes, DCA rwy1-19 is shorter than a lot of others, but it is capable of most operations. airbus, 757, and next gen 737s, for example, are used at DCA bcs they can operate there under most performance conditions with very few restrictions. there may be some weight restrictions in hot weather for long haul flights - i dont know for sure. and i do know that some aircraft must depart to the south when north operations are in use due to weight, but that has more to do with obstructions along the departure path than it does runway length.

User currently offlineHawaiian717 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3195 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1713 times:

Lat41 wrote:
a 73G with blended winglets, which I do not beleive Aloha has.


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User currently offlineMoneyShot From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1662 times:

BWI is a great idea for Aloha. I think that a lot of people from the DC area would use that flight. Same point from the SNA side of it. With just one 737 to fill per day, its pretty much an LA to DC flight. I bet it would work, but then what do I know.

User currently offlineKalakaua From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1581 times:

"Yet since then, Aloha has made no effort to introduce service to IAD or BWI, two other airports serving the Washington area that are not slot restricted."

IAD or BWI? That goes against AQ's idea of flying to "small airports."



Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
User currently offline7673mech From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 730 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1559 times:

Lets put one issue to rest ... it was their choice of aircraft. Alohoa would have had no problems with or without the winglets. (They use winglets on their transpac service). Hot or cold, SNA or LAX a 737NG can make the flight easily.
The decision was made on what was best for the flying public ... ie - connections and such.


User currently offlineKim777fan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 510 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1515 times:

IAD and BWI are "small" airports????

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