N328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6222 posts, RR: 3 Posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 7257 times:
From the August, 2nd edition of Aviation Week & Space Technology:
"One travesty," [Aerospace Industries Assoc. President/CEO John W.] Douglass says, is that Boeing is going to have to conduct 7E7 wind tunnel tests in Toulouse. "We don't have a wind tunnel in the U.S. that can support a modern commercial airplane like that. [It's a] real shame and a national embarassment."
Is this a result of the closure of the NASA wind tunnel that was in Virginia?
The article also says that the 200 additional 7E7 orders will be final by the end of September.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
Knoxibus From France, joined Aug 2007, 199 posts, RR: 21 Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 7073 times:
Erhhh I doubt Airbus has Wind tunnel tests facilities in its HQ (I would know since I am here), but maybe in your title you meant Airbus HQ town, i.e. Toulouse, which has part of the ONERA facilities here in France.
(Office National d'Etudes et de Recherches Aerospatiales, or national office for aerospace research and studies)
Anyway, I thought that wind tunnel facilities at Qinetiq in the UK could handle this?
No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
Nyc777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5147 posts, RR: 49 Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6953 times:
Not so ironic. I believe Airbus did some wind tunnel testing at the Air Force Labs in Dayton, OH. where Boeing also does some testing for the BCA business. Correct me if I'm wrong.
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12329 posts, RR: 12 Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6938 times:
What, doesn't any other US military aircraft maker have such a wind tunnel? I would be very concerned of spying by Airbus. Using a facility Airbus people could have access to, especially with 'friends' in the French government, using what is in part a French government facility. Also, isn't a government wind tunnel facility another form of subsidy to Airbus?
Knoxibus From France, joined Aug 2007, 199 posts, RR: 21 Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6862 times:
Ok LTBEWR, this is starting to look ridiculous.......
I am pretty sure that there must be some kind of non-dislosure agreement between the facility owner and the user.
And indeed, Airbus has been using facilities in the US also. I remember also ATR using a KC-135 from whichever AFB in the States to spray ice through the boom in order to check anti-icing system during flights.
These kind of facilities nowadays are also looking at making money and profits, I do believe they do noit really care about the guy coming in to perform some tests, apart from providing them with all their expertise and help, since they are paid for that.
And didn't you raise an eyebrow every time Boeing came to DARA/Qinetiq in the UK? They went over there a lot of time to do some wind tunnel tests (most of the pics of the 7E7 in a tunnel were taken there).
So yes, they must be really saving a lot of money cheating with those subsidies!!!
Just to make my point and not wanting to start anything, but maybe Boeing has some slots reserved with Nasa or US Air Force facilities for some military programs, and might be using them for BCA!!!
No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
KEESJE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6736 times:
Also, isn't a government wind tunnel facility another form of subsidy to Airbus?
Damn Boeing! So now they also want to take advantage of those subsidies!
Nah, they have NASA & the Pentagon.
On the cooperation on 7E7, the hefty Euro/Airbus - USBoeing clashes are more for a.net strategists & politicians and patriots.
A plane basicly is a bunch of components and different technologies, working together here is often beneficial. EU & US are both free & pragmatic market environments.
Planekrazy777 From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 57 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6712 times:
watch out boeing, airbus probaly has camera's in the wind tunnel, just to see what new technlogy,or aircraft design they will put into there next bird. maybe 310 replacement. just my thought
Ulfinator From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 311 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6668 times:
Boeing has done testing in other locations other than Seattle for some time. Seattle has a transonic wind tunnel that you can test some smaller models in:
For testing of other models such as Flutter models and low-speed models (these have flaps and such on them) which are much bigger scale Boeing needs a bigger wind tunnel. Hence the use of the one in Toulouse as well as another one used frequently by Airbus in Farnsbourough (sp?).
I learned all this when I visited the Transonic wind tunnel in Seattle as well as the accompanying model shop where all of our wind tunnel models are built. Really neat stuff.
Jmets18 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 178 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6620 times:
Lockheed has a wind tunnel at it's Marietta facitlity where they assemble the F/A-22. Nascar uses it all of the time.
BIGBlack From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 600 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6587 times:
Well, I can tell you for sure, that the USAF is damn stingy with their higher tech facilities.
Mt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6348 posts, RR: 7 Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6547 times:
How about charging Boeing $10,000,000/hr for wind tunnel use and blow the economics of the 7E7 development out of the water?
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6281 times:
Wait it only says that windtunnel test will be conducted in Toulouse, not that it will be held at an Airbus or EADS facailty. And Touluse isn't the HQ for Airbus! Even excluding Airbus there is a huge aerospace presence in Toulouse, Boeing is consulting with Dassault in Tolouse for CATA software and I would find it no suprise if there is an independent windtunnel facality located there as well.
N328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6222 posts, RR: 3 Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6087 times:
Luisca:
More embarassing for whom? Not Boeing or SQ, that's for certain. And yes, they were sold. Some wound up at CX.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
VSXA380X800 From United Kingdom, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 421 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5943 times:
I'm going with what Knoxibus said, I doubt that they will have a will tunnel testing area at the HQ.
N328KF, if you mean at Airbus(France), there's probably one close by the HQ.
Gearup From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 578 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5794 times:
Lads,
You might find that when you strip away all the marketing tripe, 'my plane has 4 engines, your has only 2' and so on, you might find that callaboration in area like safety, engineering and maintenance between EADS, Boeing and others runs a lot deeper than you think. It is a good thing.
VSXA380X800 From United Kingdom, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 421 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4982 times:
Syncmaster From United States of America, joined Jul 2002, 1983 posts, RR: 14 Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4587 times:
VSXA380X800,
I think what he means is that if Boeing, Airbus, EADS (?), etc didn't have marketing departments we'd all see that they actually get along with each other. Especially in areas such as safety, mx, etc.
Back on topic...
So what if Boeing uses a wind tunnel outside the U.S., they are a Worldwide company simply based in the U.S., just as Airbus is, only not based in the States. Just like Microsoft is, just like Dell is, just like Ford is, just like Unilever is, getting my drift?
Aerobalance From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 4634 posts, RR: 51 Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4518 times:
Having worked with ONERA, I'd put money that Boeing is using their facility in Toulouse. Check http://www.onera.fr/dmae-en/index.html for details on their sites.
7E7 testing has also been done at NASA-Ames Research Center.
Lnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1588 posts, RR: 17 Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4329 times:
Oh my lord, look at all the "spying" comments flying from the North Americans HAHA
C'mon people. THis is COMMON BUSINESS PRACTICE. Competitors ROUTINELY use each other for such things as research and development, etc.
I work for a large courier company here, and the general public has *NO* idea that on our aircraft, during the day, when our planes are idle, we routinely fly *TONS* of freight on OUR planes for ALL of our competitors.
Business is business. If it'll cost Boeing less to do wind tunnel tests in Europe, they'll do it there. (Hence Boeing sub-contracting parts of the 7E7 to Asian countries).
Forget the spying crap. Gosh, thats right up there with the whole subsidy conversation on here the other day. ALL major manufacturers are subisidized by their respective governments, BOEING included. IF you honestly think they aren't, you have no idea how the world really works.
The paranoid nature of a LOT of users on this site is just almost laughable!
N328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6222 posts, RR: 3 Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3903 times:
Crap, don't lop me in with the paranoids. All I did was paste the article snippet. With an incorrect headline, though.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
Lnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1588 posts, RR: 17 Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3680 times:
N328KF -- Dont' worry, I should have excluded you
Its funny.. I mean, we have the A vs B. Europe vs "the americas", 4 engines versus 2 engines and now the whole "watch out airbus, boeing might be spying" thing hahaah. I'm surprised no one accused Airbus of stowing someone in the Airbus planes Boeing purchased a few years back from customers of theirs buying new Boeing planes.
I agree with Gearup. There is more collaboration behind the scenes between these two companies than any of us would imagine. It's typical business practices.
Ooh boy, my blood boils sometimes coming here, but all - in - all, it's humorous more than anything HAHA
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With an incorrect headline, though.
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