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Demand Between The USA And West Africa  
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19260 posts, RR: 52
Posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3875 times:

Hi folks!

What is the level of demand (from tourists, VFR passengers, businesspeople) between the USA and West Africa? Which cities in West Africa should, in your opinion, be served from the USA? Would a non-stop or direct service to West Africa be viable from any city bar NY? What about cargo?

Would there be sufficient demand for a daily service from LOS to JFK or EWR, operating via ABJ thrice-weekly, ACC twice-weekly and DKR twice-weekly (or something similar), using either the 767 or the 330?


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3847 times:

There certainly used to be flights from West Africa to the US, although more recent attempts haven't gone very far.

RK used to operated ABJ-DKR-JFK with an D10, then an AB6 (I think)
WT used to operate LOS-JFK with a D10, then a codeshare with SA
GH used (until recently !) to operate ACC-JFK, then ACC-BWI with a D10
V7 used to codeshare on SA's 744's between DKR and JFK.
VR still operate a weekly flight SID-BOS

With oil-related traffic to places like Nigeria, Gabon, Ecuatorial Guinea and Angola, you'd think there'd be some business demand. I don't know where West African demographics are in the US though, they may not coincide with oil-industry centres like HOU or DAL.


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19260 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3829 times:

Yeah, there have been a good few attempts in the past.

I suppose it's easy for businesspeople to fly AF from IAH to CDG then connect there to LBV, LOS, PHC, etc. Isn't AF beginning a flight to Malabo?



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineRwylie77 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 367 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3825 times:

British Airways offer quite a few flights to West Africa from LHR, so with OneWorld it is probably easiest just to fly AA from the States to LHR for example and connect on BA...

User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3823 times:

The AF flight to SSG already operates - started this month. AF962, Mondays and Wednesdays, an A319.

User currently offlineCoTXDFW777AA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3809 times:

What are the Airports coded for Cameroon, Youande and Duola?


Texas- it's like a whole different country!
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3804 times:

YAO = Yaounde, Cameroon
DLA = Douala, Cameroon.


User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3800 times:

As noted on another thread, CO is starting EWR-LOS soon.


"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19260 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3798 times:

Oh, that passed me by!

If an airline offered, say, IAH-LOS-LBV direct, it'd probably only operate weekly, so it'd be more convenient to fly AF via CDG.

I suppose there would be a lot of VFR traffic between the USA and particular parts of West Africa, so I guess an airline could concentrate on that segment of the market. The main problem with this, I guess, would be the level of yield, but then airfares from the USA to West Africa are normally expensive (over 1000 USD) so it would surely be quite easy to offer lower prices but a good, comfortable service with good IFE and food and gain bookings that way. The price of the ticket would, I believe, be the key consideration for would-be passengers. If an airline operated LOS-JFK/EWR daily (all via one city enroute), then there would obviously be good flexibility from/to Nigeria, plus a selection of flights to/from Senegal, C-D-I and Ghana.

What about cargo between the USA and West Africa?



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineTexdravid From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1365 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3777 times:

Please, with terrorists all around, we don't need any DIRECT NONSTOP flight from West Africa to NYC, Washington, etc. These airports have useless security and incompetent buffoons running these places.

If you want to go to West Africa, go to LHR, CDG or any number of European destinations and connect.

Safety first, political correctness second....



Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3766 times:

As PROSA noted, Conintental is starting EWR-LOS. The service starts April 2005, and will be a daily 767-200ER. It is still pending government approval, but it is unlikely to be denied.


a.
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3754 times:

RE: Please, with terrorists all around, we don't need any DIRECT NONSTOP flight from West Africa to NYC.

That, if I may say so, is a particularly naive and ill-informed statement. By the same logic, all flights should stop at a giant transit centre in Bermuda, all passengers body-cavity searched, bound with cable ties, and with a plastic bag over their heads, be loaded onto C5's for onward travel to Air Bases in the USA.

Get a grip.


User currently offlineTexdravid From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1365 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3749 times:

No,JGPH1A, you get a grip!

Have you noticed all the warnings about the security practices at Mumtaz Muhhammed Airport in Lagos, Nigeria?!!! How their security practices are non-existent?

You sir, are the one that is ill-informed!!



Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3737 times:

Please, with terrorists all around, we don't need any DIRECT NONSTOP flight from West Africa to NYC, Washington, etc. These airports have useless security and incompetent buffoons running these places.

As far as I know, foreign airports have to meet certain security standards in order to be allowed to have direct service to the United States.



"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3735 times:

So what ? There have been security warnings at LOS and many other West African airports for ever, and yet direct flights are operated from LOS to many European airports in perfect safety every single day. If security was THAT bad, the FAA would have stepped in and banned flights from LOS to the USA. to the best of my knowledge, they haven't.

User currently offlineSafetyDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3795 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3733 times:

British Airways offer quite a few flights to West Africa from LHR, so with OneWorld it is probably easiest just to fly AA from the States to LHR for example and connect on BA...
That is what I did. Look for a trip report in a few days.

Please, with terrorists all around, we don't need any DIRECT NONSTOP flight from West Africa to NYC, Washington, etc.
West Africa is not big on the US' list of terrorist breeding-grounds.

 Smile
-Will



"She Flew For What We Stand For"
User currently offlineUA744KSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3713 times:

If you want to talk about incompetent buffoons, just look at your emperor.

You say that LHR or CDG are good places to connect because they are supposedly more secure, but where did Richard Reid board his flight? Where did PA 103 leave from?

And, just in case you're going to say that US airports are safe, here's a pre-emptive strike for you. Check the recent data on how many firearms have been successfully brought through security on the TSA website.

There's no valid security reason for singling out West Africa for bad security when the rest of the world doesn't seem to have a very good record about it either. If you really disagree, why don't you call CO management in Houston, and tell them that security concerns should cause them to cancel their future service from EWR to Lagos.

Apparently even some companies based in the "Real Amurkin Hartland" think it's safe to fly nonstop to Lagos.


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3714 times:

Doesn't Royal Air Maroc still fly non-stop to the U.S.? I know they have fairly good connections in and around West Africa, and is a very secure airline. Maybe someone can provide a link to a Royal Air Maroc trip report?

Hopefully Ethiopian will do a great job taking over for Ghana Airways and creating a viable network in West Africa. With a strong and secure route system by a well-established carrier, ties to North America would be a logical extension.

I could also see a market for a variety of one-stop flights from South Africa to the United States, say once or twice a week via LOS, other times through ACC. With fifth freedom rights (which some governments would gladly give!), these cities would simultaneously gain flights to important unserved markets. Has this ever been discussed?

Thanks for reading my ramblings!!



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3688 times:

I'm still rather surprised that someone (AF, AA, etc) doesn't offer a nonstop DKR-MFW at this point.

...or heck, JNB/CPT-MFW.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17829 posts, RR: 46
Reply 19, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3680 times:

"Yeah, there have been a good few attempts in the past. "

The problem hasn't been lack of demand; it's been shoddy carriers operating the route. I can almost guarantee that if you have consistent, dependable service (the plane actually departs the same day it's supposed to) between the US and West Africa, the passengers will come.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3017 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3634 times:

What is MFW? I see on the Great Circle Mapper it terminates near MIA, so what is it?

Also, MIA-JNB is 7005NM, would be a reach for AA's 772ER with a full load.



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineMiaskies From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3615 times:

ROYAL AIR MAROC flies to JFK.

As far as MIA, AA has expressed interest in starting service to Africa. Let's see what happens with that!
SAA use to serve MIA w/ 744 and 742. Kenya Airways (although in Eastern Africa) might be starting service to MIA in 2005 using a B772.



Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
User currently offlineAviationwiz From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 962 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3598 times:

Please, with terrorists all around, we don't need any DIRECT NONSTOP flight from West Africa to NYC, Washington, etc. These airports have useless security and incompetent buffoons running these places.

PROSA is right, all airports that have flights into the USA much meet certain security requirements, I thought everyone on this site knew that, common knowledge.

Also, since West African airport security is so much worse than the security in the USA according to you, I suppose all the 9/11 hijackers boarded their flights in LOS?



Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3585 times:

What is MFW? I see on the Great Circle Mapper it terminates near MIA

That should've been your first clue....  Big grin

MFW = Miami metropolitan area = MIA+FLL+PBI


User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3501 times:

At this point in time, I dare say no one has the right to point fingers at who is and who isn't secure.
The World Trade Center and Pentagon hi-jackers originated at U.S. airports.



Delete this User
25 Post contains images SafetyDude : Doesn't Royal Air Maroc still fly non-stop to the U.S.? I know they have fairly good connections in and around West Africa, and is a very secure airli
26 SW733 : When I went to W. Africa (Ghana to be exact), it was easier for us to fly ORD - LHR - ACC instead of ORD - BWI - ACC, basically because BA did it ever
27 Behramjee : The main West African states having considerable O&D traffic with USA is Nigeria and Ghana...followed by Senegal (Dakar) I would say. What would work
28 MAH4546 : CO has indicated that it is very interested in starting nonstop B 777-200ER 3 weekly EWR-LOS-EWR flights...no date given though...I read this on JUSTP
29 PA110 : Direct USA-West Africa service has always been problematic. For the past several decades, it has been served only by several national carriers, all of
30 Texdravid : UA744KSFO, Leave Bush out of it...he's no buffoon. You may disagree with his policies but he's no buffoon. To compare ANY U.S. airport to Mumtaz Muham
31 Peteinmiami : Leave Bush out of it...He's no buffoon. You may disagree with his policies but he's no buffoon. Well them take him back to Texas, I have enough of him
32 Klwright69 : Here is a link that I posted on the CO EWR-LOS thread. http://www.dot.gov/affairs/1999/dot22199.htm LOS airport has obviously improved.
33 Antonovman : i flew a few times from west africa to CDG with air france they have their own security guards on board the aircraft when the a/c lands and the doors
34 UA744KSFO : Um, I'm actually a conservative, a REAL conservative, rather than the phony BS that Bush has tried to make the word mean (which I call neo-conservativ
35 Texdravid : A real conservative may disagree with Bush on any number of issues, but doesn't call Bush a moron. You're using a common tactic I've seen used everywh
36 Brons2 : A real conservative may disagree with Bush on any number of issues, but doesn't call Bush a moron. Hey, if the shoe fits.... I've seen Bush slip up wa
37 Post contains links PIA747 : World Air leasing has obtained a Gambian AOC. They plan to start operations with a tristar to the US. http://www.worldairleasing.com
38 MAH4546 : If CO think they can make a profit on the EWR-LOS route, I really wish them luck. Personally, I think they've lost their minds, and have no clue what
39 5NEOO : If CO think they can make a profit on the EWR-LOS route, I really wish them luck. Personally, I think they've lost their minds, and have no clue what
40 Paul777 : Direct service between the US-Africa has been sporadic at best. With the demise of Pan Am, and Air Afrique, we lost direct flights to/from DKR. Still
41 Texdravid : Sure, we can leave the politics out of this discussion. Because it was not me that added this anti-Bush stuff in it. A discussion on how Lagos Nigeria
42 JGPH1A : Re: I think I saw somewhere that SA was stopping to refuel in Senegal, on it's US flights, but not sure if it was allowed to take on passengers. Yes,
43 Paul777 : JGPH1A thanks for the info!
44 UA744KSFO : "Sure, we can leave the politics out of this discussion. Because it was not me that added this anti-Bush stuff in it." No, you called certain security
45 ETStar : Texdravid Please, with terrorists all around, we don't need any DIRECT NONSTOP flight from West Africa to NYC, Washington, etc. These airports have us
46 Klwright69 : This thread is certainly is getting a little testy. In post number 32, I posted the link where several years ago the U.S. aviation officials concluded
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