ACES320 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 214 posts, RR: 1 Posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5858 times:
Avianca was the 747's first operator in Latin America. It used to fly back in the 1980's from Bogotá to CDG, FRA,AMS, LGW and LHR sometimes via MAD. Nowadays is there any other possibility to see another big bird in the Latin-American Skies? Obvious question A380 in Latin-America?
SOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2475 posts, RR: 22 Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5753 times:
Nowadays is there any other possibility to see another big bird in the Latin-American Skies?
Hmmm, thinking about it, it would be really tough, and if you start analyzing each carrier's potential to have it, you'll find out that the possibility, IMO, is right down to 0.
We only have one Latin American airline operating the 747 nowadays, so imagine how the panorama with a larger bird would be....
Kim777fan From United States, joined Aug 2004, 510 posts, RR: 5 Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5739 times:
Hmmmm.. I don't know and I have my doubts. The sales for the A380 aren't coming from North and South America, at least thus far.
The purchasers of the A380 include AF, KE, LH, QF, and VS. Emirates is by far the biggest customer accounting for just under 1/3 of all A380 orders (41 of 129).
I'm not sure Avianca is in the market for such a behemoth if they aren't flying a VLA at present.
JoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2210 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5698 times:
Maybe someone from Europe will bring an A380 to GRU. LH and AF are the two most likely candidates.
MEX might also see the bigbus. LH has an daily 744 and three more 744 weekly. So an daily A380 would make a lot of sense, due to the fact that the Germany to Mexico market is not a market where frequency is important.
Luisde8cd From Venezuela, joined Aug 2004, 2461 posts, RR: 51 Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5688 times:
None. But if I had to pick one, it would be AR and then LAN. Why AR? because they already operate a long haul Airbus (A340) and they might want to get rid of the B744 leases by late in this decade.... And why LAN? well because Chile has one of the fastest growing economies in Latin America, so they might have the demand and also the MONEY to buy such a beast.
Viasa we miss you!. Good times will return after Chavez is gone!
Ghost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 4627 posts, RR: 56 Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5676 times:
MEX might also see the bigbus. LH has an daily 744 and three more 744 weekly. So an daily A380 would make a lot of sense, due to the fact that the Germany to Mexico market is not a market where frequency is important.
LH got intentions to increase next year service to 12X. Before World Cup 2006 LH wants to offer 14X to MEX.
The A380 In Latin America
Non possibilties!
A380s of European carriers in Latin America: YES.
AR? No. They first will go for the A340-600s.
LA? No. They first will go for more A340-300 or more 600s.
MX? YES. By the year of 2021 in their 100 year Anniversary...! Yeah right...
Ricardo APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
This is the only experience of Lan Chile with the 747, and it was intended for summer peaks only. LAN prefers flexibility and frequency, not mass transport. LAN won't be a client for the 380, specially with this "multi hub" strategy (SCL, LIM, EZE, UIO, etc) that split the demand, instead of concentrate it.
Besides, we don't need to spoil these nice colors in such an ugly bird! And we'll have to see how AR and RG handle the 747s to get enough profits for justifying the 747s.
Arcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2309 posts, RR: 33 Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5651 times:
BTW, how many Latin American airports are able to handle the 380?
I think in SCL, the current runway ans taxi ways in construction (to be opened in 2005) considered the 380 in the design.
But if a 380 intended to land in Santiago has to be rerouted, for fog or emergecy, SCL alternatives airports: MDZ, CCP and ANF won't be able to receive it, or am I wrong?
ACES320 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 214 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5647 times:
TACA was the first 767 operator and a late A300 operator. Sometime is not only about size but also about goals and expansion. Despite crazy it sounds I wouldn't discard the aidea of having a A380 operated by Latin-American carriers. LA and AR come first to my mind.
LX23 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 344 posts, RR: 4 Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5554 times:
I'd say RG and AR would probably be the most likely operators of an A380, but it's probably gonna be a long time before we see that bird with Latin American colours.
@ACES: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the A300s were freighters?? And are you sure AV was the first 747 operator in Latin America?
@Luis: VIASA was a wonderful airline, and I do miss it...shame the pre-Chavez governments killed it...though I've heard that the Chavez government was trying to bring a national airline back to Venezuela?
TBCITDG From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 921 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5497 times:
On another thread someone made a note that EZE is ready to receive the A380. As to whether an airline would purchase one is another issue. As with what Arcano said regarding LAN, I think that the same goes for AR. I would only see them with A340 etc or similar sized aircraft, especially with the 744 in service. Although could the A380 be used for EZE-MAD?????
LX23 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 344 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5429 times:
Well, EZE-MAD is done at least 4x daily with IB and AR 747s/A346s, plus the Southern Winds/Air Europa 767, and all the other airlines that take transfer passengers (RG,LAN, etc)...So I wouldn't put it past them (capacity-wise)
Luisde8cd From Venezuela, joined Aug 2004, 2461 posts, RR: 51 Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5329 times:
@Luis: VIASA was a wonderful airline, and I do miss it...shame the pre-Chavez governments killed it...
Not true. Pre chavez goverments weren't good, but they weren't as bad as Chavez. Pre-chavez govs created the airline with KLMs help and experienced a fast growth during the 70s as a result of the high oil prices and the bonanza Venezuela was experiencing at the time.
Back then almost everyone except bums could go to Miami to spend the weekend, there are stories of people going to Miami only to do their groceries shopping and return the same day. Well what I'm trying to say here is that oil wealth allowed the Venezuelan State to have a strong national airline. But what happened? When oil prices dropped, Venezuela faced a huge problem. Goverments saw their income drop and had to reduce their budgets and consequently state subsides, being VIASA one of them.
Read the caption, it says the plane returned to CCS full. Back then we could import many many things at a relatively low price. Thanks to the exchange rate.
In 1983 the "black tuesday" as we venezuelans remember it, happened. What is the black tuesday? well in that day the gov. announced that they were suspeding currency exchange temporally. 2 weeks later they decided to devaluate the Bolivar from 4.30 Bs/$ to 7 Bs./$. So in a matter of hours what u had in the bank, suddenly was worth half of it. After 1983 the Bolivar has been suffering a non-stopable devaluation and in 20 years it has devaluated about 63,000%from it's original value. During the Chávez administration it has devaluated 500%. When he came to power the exchange rate was about 500Bs./$ and now it's about 2800Bs./$
So what happened? well a new goverment came to power in the late 80's (Carlos Andrés Pérez). He went to the FMF for help. They helped him develop an economic policy that was supposed to help us and it included the privatization of many many state-run enterprises, being VIASA one of them. VIASA wasn't been profitable since the early 80s so it was a priority for the gov. to privatize it.
As I mentioned earlier, VIASA was created with KLM's help, so when the privatization bid was announced, KLM was anxious to buy VIASA. But Carlos ANdres Pérez had stong ties with Felipe Gonzalez socialist party in Spain and decided to sell VIASA to Iberia, which wasn't familiar with VIASA's operations as KLM was.
IB tried to implement a complete re-structuring of the airline but the labors opposed and no deal could be made, so IB decided to stop operations to stop losing money and then sold almost all of the fleet in order to recover their invesment in the airline. Hope this gives everyone a clear picture of what happened with VIASA.
though I've heard that the Chavez government was trying to bring a national airline back to Venezuela?
Yes. Chavez is trying to create a state-run airline called CONVIASA apparently to give tourism a boost. But the sad truth is that he's trying to recover the support he once had from the middle and upper class of the country, since he's facing a recall election in 2 days. It's just a dirty politics trick trying to convince Venezuelans that we are going to have VIASA back and that we will be able to do our groseries in Miami again.
CONVIASA is supposed to be based in PMV (Margarita Island) which is our main tourist destination. The Air Force will take care of maintenance and training. Recently the Navy just gave CONVIASA one of their CASA 212s so that they could start ops to another popular tourist destination in Venezuela LRS (Los Roques Archipelago). Navy pilots will fly it.
So Chávez is only proposing another state-run airline, with military crew and aircraft. This airline if it ever happens to start ops, will only be a complete failure. What the gov. should do is support the already-established private airlines like VH and Santa Bárbara so that they can expand ops to many more destinations like VIASA once did.
If anyone has a question, I'll gladly try to answer it
[Edited 2004-08-13 14:52:48]
Viasa we miss you!. Good times will return after Chavez is gone!
La Carlota From United States, joined Jun 2001, 358 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5219 times:
Luisde8cd:
Probably this is not the best 'topic' under which discussing VIASA's fate, so I'll be brief.
Your explanation about what happened was great. However, I blame Pérez's Administration for selling the company to an already troubled one, Iberia, which at that time was doing pretty bad in Spain too.
So, as a Spaniard who lived in Venezuela for a long time (and misses it a lot!), I can't help but to blame both IB and the Venezuelan Government.
And about the A380 question in Latin American, my bets go to Varig for some of its routes to Europe, and Aerolíneas Argentinas (also to Europe and probably some markets in the US --MIA or JFK--) if economic recovery in the country continues its path...
Luisde8cd From Venezuela, joined Aug 2004, 2461 posts, RR: 51 Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5196 times:
Probably this is not the best 'topic' under which discussing VIASA's fate
You are right. I was just replying to LX23's question as brief as I could do without leaving out important facts.
However, I blame Pérez's Administration for selling the company to an already troubled one, Iberia, which at that time was doing pretty bad in Spain too.
Correct, so do I when I mentioned that they sold it to IB instead of KLM which was very familiar with VIASA's operations . Pérez and/or his advisors made a HUGE MISTAKE there. Politics in business isn't good.
By the way... La Carlota, is that nickname of yours related to SVFM (Caracas "downtown" airport/air force base?)
[Edited 2004-08-13 16:03:17]
Viasa we miss you!. Good times will return after Chavez is gone!
La Carlota From United States, joined Jun 2001, 358 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5162 times:
Luisde8cd
By the way... La Carlota, is that nickname of yours related to SVFM (Caracas "downtown" airport/air force base?)
Of course it is! That's were my passion for Aviation comes from. I used to live right in front of the runway, when the airport used to have lots of private traffic. During years, I knew almost all of the aircrafts coming in and out of that lovely place!
Miaskies From United States, joined Jun 2004, 1209 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5146 times:
Hmm Latin American Carriers having A380's??? thats a difficult one...
I could definetly see Latin American Carriers getting larger long haul aircraft like the 773, A346 (as in the plans for AR) and maybe some 7E7 for carriers like LAN, Varig to offer more pin-point nonstop service to other cities.
Luisde8cd From Venezuela, joined Aug 2004, 2461 posts, RR: 51 Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5135 times:
La Carlota is great, it's location in the middle of this urban jungle makes it special. The most exciting aviation moment I've ever experienced here in Caracas was while I was stuck in traffic in Av. Francisco de Miranda and saw this huge white reflex in this all-blue glass building to my right, so I turned my head to the left and what a surprise, it was the Air Force's brand new A319CJ presidential plane on final approach to runway 11. I'll never forget that moment, it's the largest aircraft that has landed there I believe.
JJMNGR From Brazil, joined May 2004, 1018 posts, RR: 22 Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5055 times:
VARIG with A380? They do not have finantial breath for this big step...sorry but I have to disagree.
And seems to me not AR also. This is an aircraft for big demand and routes at same time and L.A is not that justifies an A380.
Fokker50 From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 359 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4998 times:
I think in South America this aircraft will not get any future. Here in Colombia we don't have the enviroment to have an aircraft of that magnitude, also we dont' have the traffic to mantain this aircraft.
Arcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2309 posts, RR: 33 Reply 25, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4785 times:
Actually, on a second thought, LAN could use a freight version of the 380, actually Lan Cargo has a lot more experience with big aircrafts than LAN itself, flying a good number of 767 (the only official in the fleet), but also some 747s and MD11s.
Lan Cargo is a huge company, and Lan Box is a huge logistic company that coul be an actual consumer for the 380.
But as told, I still don't know how well prepared are South American facilities for the 380
)(
GO RIO 2016
26 RCS763av: Ummm...lets see, if AV goes bankrupt. (if the route isnt given to another arline) lets say both flights departed 100% full. That would be 270pax (IB A
27 SOUTHAMERICA: Arcano, You have a point there on reply 25. Eventhough the freighter A380 would probably take much more time to arrive to Latin America than the regul
28 Tavong: I really don't think we will see the A380 in Latin America for the near future, at least the Pax version, has said before maybe an European carrier (b
29 JoFMO: Not so skeptical, sooner or later i see LH or AF routing their A380 to MEX and/or GRU. They have them and they could use them to there.
30 LVZXV: It seems highly unlikely that a single A380 will be sold in Latin America. The answer is totally obvious: only 5 carriers (AR, AV, LA, RG, VA) have ev
31 Celticmanx: I just want to add that the A380 was not planed by Airbus to fit the Latin American market. Instead, it is focus on high density-long hauls routes, ma
32 ACES320: The A380 CAN operate from BOG. The A380 is designed to comply with operating regulations in high attitude airports like Cape Town, Mexico, or SCL. As
33 Rafabozzolla: ACES320 Don't you mean Johannesburg? Cape Town is at sea level, unless the airport is on top of the Table Mountain.
34 Kim777fan: Celticmanx, I too do not think it is much of a stretch to see NW possibly order some A380's for tran-pacific operation. Of the big 5 airlines in the U
35 SOUTHAMERICA: Don't forget that Mexico City is still around the 4th largest city in the world and Mexico and the Caribbean are popular choices with European travel
36 Tavong: NW are the only US-based carrier to purchase the A330-300. Don't forget US-Airways SOUTHAMERICA well you're rigth according to nationamster.com you're
37 LX23: Not true. Pre chavez goverments weren't good, but they weren't as bad as Chavez. Hmm...CAPs government was the one that sold the airline of into the h
38 Kim777fan: "Don't forget US-Airways" I didn't. I thought they operated the A330-200 without bothering to double-check theuir website. It IS the A330-200. But for
39 Luisde8cd: Of before I start posting my reply, I had to take a couple of deep breaths to try to calm myself down.. well here I go Hmm...CAPs government was the o
40 Tavong: luisde8cd i hope the referendum does the best for Venezuela. (i won't be typing opinions to avoid a flame war) On other hands i'm not sure if A380 can
41 SOUTHAMERICA: Tavong, the only airline that will have A380 that flies here is AF and they're very happy sending the A340 even with monopoly......and on that route I
42 Tavong: And you might as well forget about the 772/3 too. AF's 777s carry the same number of passengers in Economy cabin, but have better capacity on the prem
43 Arcano: ACES320: The A380 is designed to comply with operating regulations in high attitude airports like Cape Town, Mexico, or SCL Just a note: Santiago de
44 SOUTHAMERICA: Tavong, and since BA dropped the 777 to go on the 767 it would be very difficult to see the 772 again here..... As said several times before, BA will
45 LX23: Luisito: you missed out a few flights Before: Alitalia: MD11 (mixed in with a LOT of 767s) KLM: MD11 BA: B772 TAP: A340 (actually, the A310 was more c
46 Luisde8cd: LX23 I didnt add the flights that were on bold because they didn't experience any changes. I just mentioned the ones that were downgraded. The only im
47 LX23: Just to prove what a fraud you really are: Aerocontinente never went to caracas before chavez...it was founded in the same year that Chavez came to po
48 Luisde8cd: to be perfectly honest, i dont care who governs venezuela if u dont care, just dont say anything about it. It only proves how ignorant you are. that's
49 AV757: Even if high altitude and temperature airports which limit airplane performance to a maximum. And their taxiways and terminal facilities at SKBO, SKRG
50 ACES320: AV757 Capitain, How it comes then that the 747 operated out of BOG during so many time. AV, AF BA all they are past operators of the 747 in BOG what i
51 Celticmanx: I am sorry to divert the topic for a second but I want to clarify something. Luis, there are far more factors affecting the fact that airlines have le
52 LX23: Manx: Any news on conviasa's planned c/s???
53 Celticmanx: LX23: CONVIASA is still a project and it won't be before the end of this year or probably earlier next year when they become ready to start operations
54 Crjboy: TACA will have A380's for sure...j/k I see Lan and AR for shizzle tho...
55 Tavong: ACESa320 well i'm sure AV757 can clarify quite a lot better you answer (he's a qualified pilot, i'm a Doctor *lol*) but well AV operated the 747s to E
56 ACES320: Tavong Me too. But I still think most were direct flights.
57 SOUTHAMERICA: At least AF, before switching equipment to the A343, always operated the nonstop flights from/to CDG with 747-200. IB has in fact operated 747s nonsto
58 Juanr: Well, there was no problem for the 747 to fly non-stop from BOG to Europe: LH flew the route FRA-BOG-LIM-BOG-FRA with a 747-400. BA flew the route LHR
59 RCS763av: Also, the IB A346 did not have problems taking-off here, and thats a big plane.
60 Luisde8cd: (by the way, it was not chavez who started that strike) Correct, but he certainly encouraged it. He even confessed it during a speech in Congress. Ven
61 CRJboy: is this topic a380's in latin america or venezuelan government?
62 Luisde8cd: is this topic a380's in latin america or venezuelan government? hehe maybe we can come up with a relation between my discussion about Venezuela's avia
63 FRAspotter: I would have to say that either or both VARIG and/or LAN Chile might by a few in the next year or two.
64 ACES320: I rather go for LAN if they are able to consolidate a more strategic hub for routing passenger on core routes to Europe.
65 LVZXV: I would have to say that either or both VARIG and/or LAN Chile might by a few in the next year or two. I don't think any Latin American carrier will b
66 Fyano773: As many of you stated before, LH & AF wll be probably flying the SuperJumbo to MEX, GRU, etc. But, taking into consideration Boeing's Current Market O
67 Adriaticus: At present load factor growing trends, the Mexican airports of Toluca (TLC), Guadalajara (GDL), or both, may see a FedEx A388F landing daily (and sitt
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And we'll have to see how AR and RG handle the 747s to get enough profits for justifying the 747s.
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. Pérez and/or his advisors made a HUGE MISTAKE there. Politics in business isn't good.
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