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A Million Citizens, No Trans Atlantic Flights...  
User currently offlineKl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5305 posts, RR: 16
Posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 8316 times:

Just a question,

Marseille, close to where I live has more then 1.5 million citizens, but no Trans atlantic flights. Why is that? I understand AF wants everybody to fly via CDG, but with a million+ citizens it should be posible to fill a plane, like DL does to NCE, which is much smaller as well. Marseille area has many multinational companies, so I don't get it ........

Anyone?

KL911

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSafetyDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3795 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8118 times:

Well, if all those 1.5 million people fly at the same time, AF could certainly fill a plane. The issue though is that not everyone would to go to the same place (some might not even be going to North America), so routing passengers through CDG provides options for many cities.

 Smile
-Will



"She Flew For What We Stand For"
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4764 posts, RR: 44
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8099 times:

Give continental a call, I'm sure they'd love more non-stop Euro destinations via 757s.


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineKl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5305 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8088 times:

Ohay, I understand that, but Marseille has also very limited European flights. How would an US city of about a million and a half citizen correspond to this? Would they have more flights? ( AMS only has 700.000 citizens... btw )

User currently offlineLHR27C From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 1279 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8070 times:

Absolutely, access to CDG provides onward connection to far more US destinations than possible out of Marseilles - all part of the "hub and spoke" system. And if people are desperate to fly to the US from that part of France they can go to NCE for the DL connection and transfer to the US cities they want once in the US.


Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned forever skyward
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8065 times:

Marseille, close to where I live has more then 1.5 million citizens, but no Trans atlantic flights.

Seems that the target group for transatlantic flights isn't living in this city. Flights to North Africa are extremly successful from MRS, there are many daily nonstop flights to ALG, TUN, CMN, etc. (a few of them even operated by widebodies like the 767 or the A 300).

Patrick

Edit: Correction of an airport code.

[Edited 2004-08-14 00:33:01]

User currently offlineKl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5305 posts, RR: 16
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8021 times:

Patrick,

Yep, We've got a few A300's everyday to Africa, every now and then also 747-200, DC10 and 340. It's just that I'm Dutch, Amsterdam has 700.000 citizens, Now I live here with 2x as many persons and the flights are sh*t...
Guess I'm pissed off of having no good spotting possibilities, although the airport is super!


User currently offlineSafetyDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3795 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8002 times:

How would an US city of about a million and a half citizen correspond to this? Would they have more flights? ( AMS only has 700.000 citizens... btw )
Just like Sabena said, Marseille must not have a huge demand. Most US cities with a big population have a pretty big travel demand.

 Smile
-Will



"She Flew For What We Stand For"
User currently offlineKl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5305 posts, RR: 16
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7961 times:

'''Marseille must not have a huge demand'''

We have flights every 45 minutes to Paris on AF, Orly and CDG. And 3 times daily Easyjet to Orly and CDG. Seems like a lot of connecting pax to me... Besides the fact that the LH, BA and KL flights connect to their longhaul network as well. I just don't get it, Why NCE has DL service and MRS not.... grrrrrrrrr!


User currently offlineSafetyDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3795 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7951 times:

There is a demand, but not that big of a demand. NCE has a wide appeal for Americans, and Delta obviously feels that there is a market for it, while for Marseille, it is better just to feed people to hubs.

 Smile
-Will



"She Flew For What We Stand For"
User currently offlineKl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5305 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7906 times:

And still I don't agree, what do I tell my camera tomorrow?....  Laugh out loud

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7873 times:

It's just that I'm Dutch, Amsterdam has 700.000 citizens, Now I live here with 2x as many persons and the flights are sh*t...

Amsterdam is a major transit hub, one of the world's largest cargo airports, and the main transportation centre for a country of 15,000,000. It's not that hard to see why it has so much service. Population is not everything.



a.
User currently offlineRCS763av From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4396 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7821 times:

Its all about the wealth of the people that live in the city, and if a strong airline hubs there.

Some examples:

Cali, 3 million people, very limited summer-only transatlantic charters
Medellin, 2.5 million, NO transatlantic flights.
Barranquilla, 1.2 million, NO transatlantic flights.
Brussels, 3 million, plenty of flights to choose from.


Also, ATL is not a huge city, but it sports the biggest airport in terms of traffic, thanx to DL.

(misspelled Brussels, sorry)

[Edited 2004-08-14 01:36:22]

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7639 times:

How would an US city of about a million and a half citizen correspond to this?

Depends on plenty of other factors:

San Diego, New Orleans, San Antonio, etc all have metropolitan areas of well over a million people; yet feature no scheduled transatlantic (or hell, intercontinental at all) service.


User currently offlineHz747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1711 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7616 times:
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San Diego has BA service to London, no?

Anyhoo, traffic to Nice I am sure is leisure related. It is fun to visit the beaches there. However, I wonder if Marseilles generates enough traffic to warrant its own flight. In this day and age, it would seem if there was a need someone would fill it already.

Like no trans-Atlantic service from Hamburg or Berlin (though I hear Berlin routes are returning).



Keep on truckin'...
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7580 times:

San Diego has BA service to London, no?

Neither SAN nor MSY retain their BA service  Crying


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7559 times:

In this day and age, it would seem if there was a need someone would fill it already.


In this day in age, less and less cities are trans-Atlantic gateways. In the United States, for example, the days of trans-Atlantic service to New Orleans, Nashville, San Diego, St. Louis, and, soon, Pittsburgh, are gone.

It was as recent as ten years ago when Lufthansa offered non-stop US service from a plethora of German gateways, not just Frankfurt and Munich. Hamburg and Dusseldorf both had non-stops Lufthansa flights to New York City and Miami, for example.

And Marseille itself is no stranger to trans-Atlantic service. In 1989 French airline UTA started service from Marseille non-stop to Newark. UTA also operated service from Newark to Bordeaux, Toulouse, Montpellier, and Nantes (some routes were paired up). They served the routes with DC-10s. Following the Air France merger in 1990, the MRS route was transfered to JFK, and Air France flew the route with A310s, but, eventually, it was dropped within two years, along with all the other ones.



a.
User currently offlineHz747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1711 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7536 times:
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San Diego used to be a continuation on the PHX flight--I am glad PHX has its own flight, but is there any chance of that San Diego leg returning?

I guess San Diego's tourism is mostly domestic, and it is close enough to LA which has plenty of trans-Atlantic traffic, so it may not warrant its own service.



Keep on truckin'...
User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7455 times:

There are plenty of other factors which contributed to the termination of BA's SAN-LHR service last year. I expect to see them (or another european carrier) back at SAN within the next few years, however.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineStarCruiser From United States of America, joined May 2004, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6958 times:

I live in IND and we have a population of 1.5 million. IND is located in the center of Indiana which has a population of over 6 million. We're still waiting for some kind of nonstop service to Europe, but I doubt it will happen anytime soon except possibly on TZ (which doesn't really count). We are just too close to ORD (about an hour's flight). We can get anywhere on AA and UA (to say nothing of various European carriers) by flying first to ORD.

User currently offlineFraT From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 1107 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6827 times:

"though I hear Berlin routes are returning"

Hz747300,

the only current rumor is a ATA charter but that's it. There was a approval this week for the new Airport BBI, but that will take more than 5 years. Until then there won't be any flights to the US besides the ATA charter (if it comes).


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6583 times:

I agree with the sense of Kl911's question.
Marseille is center not only for the greater Marseille but also the airport for cities like Aix en Provence,Toulon ,the district Var and Gard. I live about 45 minutes away from Marseille and love the city. Much more to see in Marseille than in Nice ot Cannes...!!! But in France we suffer from the "Napoleon syndrom " - meaning the center of the french world remains Paris and it's stupid centralistic ideas.I used to live in Montpellier and had to fly first up to stupid CDG or ORLY airport if I wanted to continue to Madrid,Barcelona or Rome - all has to go via Paris even when it takes four hours more and cost the double.Marseille does deserve more direct air-links (like Montpellier does..) but Air France and some shrewed politicians find an interestt to waste the time and money of thousands of people. But then francs-macons and their networks work very well in France ....

[Edited 2004-08-14 14:59:13]


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1569 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6501 times:

Too many Marseille residents use NCE or Toulon, which are somewhat close, and maybe cheaper?


The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineSafetyDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3795 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6394 times:

And still I don't agree, what do I tell my camera tomorrow?....
There is a demand for traveling passengers, but most likely not enough of a demand to launch services to a specific place. Of all of the passengers traveling, those going to North America have a huge selection of cities to choose from. It is easier and better for AF to bring the passengers through one of the Paris airports.

Marseille has a general traveling demand, but not a demand strong enough to have services to one specific place. DL has service to NCE, but only from one destination in the US. DL feeds that flight from all of its flights.

 Smile
-Will



"She Flew For What We Stand For"
User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6184 times:

What about LYS? Its even bigger and more wealthy than MRS and didn't have a transcontinental nonstop.

25 Unitedkatw : In MKE the population is over one million, but yet there are none either. The closest thing to international is one flight to Mexico by Midwest and fl
26 Post contains images Solnabo : If U that unhappy with Marsielle, KL911, and no planespotting for you´re camera, you can always take the TGE up to CDG or Orly and snap you´reself h
27 Post contains images Airtrainer : Hi, as someone said there's maybe not enough demand for these flights. For example, there are a lot of people around Lille and the north of the countr
28 Dutchjet : Hubs, hubs and more hubs - the simple and sometimes sad fact is that if a city is not a hub or atleast a focus city for an airline, there is not as mu
29 OB1783P : I live in Pennsylvania. My Maman in Aix en Provence (near MRS) is turning 70, and I'm going to go surprise her on her B'day, using AZ from Newark to
30 BA : I think there is demand for a transatlantic flight from Marseille to New York for example. They could fill up a flight, but the problem I think would
31 Elwood64151 : AMS only has 700.000 citizens... btw True, but it covers a significant part of Holland's population overall. Is Marseille 1.5 million plus those who l
32 Gilesdavies : In this day in age, less and less cities are trans-Atlantic gateways. In the United States, for example, the days of trans-Atlantic service to New Orl
33 Post contains images SafetyDude : I think there is demand for a transatlantic flight from Marseille to New York for example. They could fill up a flight, but the problem I think would
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