DeltaWings From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 1269 posts, RR: 26 Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9816 times:
If Delta wants to become a long haul carrier, then we will probably see more 772ER in their fleet soon, if they have any money. Maybe even some 773ER, but not within the next five years.
Although, they will probably sell off some of their 737s, (and 757s?) to buy long haul planes.
Will this mean, that Delta Connection, ASA, Comair will be given up to? Then there will be a hell lot of RJs around.
DeltaWings
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
Lono From United States, joined Apr 2004, 1279 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9813 times:
Catch 22... I wonder how they can implement something like this....
A whole series of questions...
like... FF skymiles customers in smaller DL cities will be getting burned...
Maybe they will be using MORE RJ's...???? for feeder traffic...
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day ago) and read 9795 times:
From the article's 3rd paragraph:
"Asked whether that idea sounded like the last, failed strategy of now defunct Pan Am in the 1980s, Grinstein said, "No, that's the future," the newspaper said, citing the people."
History has a funny way of repeating itself sometimes, and I hope Grinstein's assessment of what Delta needs to do to survive/thrive is correct. If not, it could get really ugly, and fairly quickly.
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 61 Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 23 hours ago) and read 9759 times:
If one reads between the lines of this article, it seems that more short haul routes will be transfered from Mainline Service to regional carriers. The future for the DFW hub does not look promising, nor does the future of Song.
Will people pay 10 to 15 percent more to fly Delta than a LCC? Unlikely. Delta's future as primarily a longhaul or international carrier, also seems unlikely if DL cuts back on short haul routes.
Delta's huge power and advantage is their extremely strong and rather well placed hubs, which allows them to move passengers effeciently throughout the US and overseas. Why dont they go with their strengths?
ChrisNH From United States, joined Jun 1999, 3156 posts, RR: 3 Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 23 hours ago) and read 9738 times:
I don't quite understand the logic chain here: He is saying that to differentiate, it must go to more long-haul flying? Well, the LCCs out there have aircraft capable of doing those longhauls: B6 flies transcon and Southwest can too with its 737-700s. So if this is some grand scheme to set itself apart from the maddening crowds, Delta won't be able to separate itself. If they pull away from fighting B6/WN and instead go to these so-called longhauls, then they smack right into AA and UA. Indeed, isn't this the same carrier that (twice!) decided that longhaul Boston-LAX would be a neat market to try?...only to run away with their tail between their legs...twice!
KBUF737 From United States, joined Dec 2003, 774 posts, RR: 5 Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 22 hours ago) and read 9655 times:
If Mainline is exclusively long haul and regionals are used for everything else then.....somebody has been flip flopping. Isn't this the man that only a few short weeks ago said that the excessive use of RJ's was also a mistake and he would like to see alot of return to mainline service?!
Man....DL is not looking good.
Idea for a book title: "From First to Worst" by Mr. Grinstein
Luv2fly From United States, joined May 2003, 11216 posts, RR: 56 Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 22 hours ago) and read 9641 times:
If Mainline is exclusively long haul and regionals are used for everything else then.....Somebody has been flip flopping. Isn't this the man that only a few short weeks ago said that the excessive use of RJ's was also a mistake and he would like to see a lot of return to mainline service?!
I thought I had either read that or had heard it, should be an interesting ride.
Bucky707 From United States, joined Aug 2000, 1021 posts, RR: 6 Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 21 hours ago) and read 9552 times:
"Isn't this the man that only a few short weeks ago said that the excessive use of RJ's was also a mistake and he would like to see alot of return to mainline service?!"
The only bad thing I have heard GG say about RJs is their use on longer flights. That would make sense with the strategy of concentrating Delta on long haul. My bet, mainline Delta will fly the big traffic city pairs (short or long) transcon and intl. DCI will cover everything else.
LoneStarMike From United States, joined Jul 2000, 2970 posts, RR: 52 Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 21 hours ago) and read 9551 times:
Although it doesn't mention Song, there was an extensive article in the Atlanta Business Chronicle about weak performing routes for Delta which they were considering cutting.
Weak routes a drag on Delta More than 50 routes were flown nearly half empty last year August 13, 2004
As Delta Air Lines Inc.'s business loses altitude with each passing day, the company soon may have to consider cutting some of the weakest and most unprofitable routes from its complex hub-and-spoke network, say industry analysts and insiders.
More than 50 of Delta's routes in 2003 had load factors of less than 60 percent, meaning that the planes were flown nearly half empty, according to data compiled by the federal Bureau of Transportation Statistics (BTS) for the full year 2003
Sspontak From United States, joined Aug 2004, 445 posts, RR: 3 Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 20 hours ago) and read 9492 times:
I wonder if the DL LGA/BOS/DCA will be sold off. It might not since CO has their EWR flights and AA has their regional jet flights. Maybe the slots can be used for long haul LGA flights.
Sspontak From United States, joined Aug 2004, 445 posts, RR: 3 Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 20 hours ago) and read 9457 times:
What a terrible thing to say about Song: "Swan Song". I guess Grinstein could care less about all of the dedicated employees and passenger when he said that statement. Nice morale booster. Next time think before you speak.
Flairport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 20 hours ago) and read 9449 times:
PLEASE, DL, wait about 10 years to go long haul....when I start an airline in 10 years I'm going to need a couple of 737-800s cheap!
Ok, to my opinion:
If DL doesn't keep their mainline on routes like ATL-FLL, ATL-JAX, ATL-MIA, ATL-TPA, ATL-MCO, ATL-LGA, ATL-BOS, ATL-LAX, ATL-DFW, ATL-ORD, ATL-SLC, ATL-IAD, ATL-DCA, ATL-PHX, ATL-ABQ, ATL-STL, ATL-SFO, ATL-SEA, ATL-PDX, ATL-SAN...oh, I can go on for a while!
Let's face it, Jerry has a chance to make this company state-of-the-art, but, instead, supposedly, wants to ruin it. Maybe he wants to sell it to CO or NW, but, either way, Delta is NOT Western, it is completely different, and you need to keep an airline like Delta alive, not kill it!
EDIT: I posted th above wihout reading the aritcle, and after reading the article, I now realize that Jerry is in no shape to be an airline CEO. Him being a CEO of an airline is like Michael Jordan playing baseball!
Grinstein believes Delta can -- much as Starbucks Corp. (SBUX.O: Quote, Profile, Research) has for coffee -- charge more than low-cost carriers, maybe 10-15 percent more, by providing better service, at a time security concerns have made flying less pleasurable, the newspaper said.
That is the biggest piece of crap I have read. Starbucks charges more, but look who they compete with, Seattle's Best and a few other small chains and local coffee houses, Starbucks is completely differerent! Also, in this day and age, $500-even $1000 used to be nothing to my family, we'd fly anywhere....but, now we can't even afford $200 or sometimes WN's $99 (all prices are per person). My family now prefers to drive and pay $300 for a hotel rather than fly (espically on short routes) and pay $600. I'm sure this situation has been repeated across the country! Anyone who has that stupid of a comment, coing right out saying "oh, we'll charge 10-20% more than jetBlue, is not only not fit to be an airline CEO, but they are just plain dumb!
"In recent weeks, Mr. Grinstein has stepped up a campaign to rally managers and the rank and file around his vision. At the heart of the design is the question of whether, after a decade in which air travel has become as commoditized as coffee, an airline can "pull a Starbucks" and charge more for premium offerings."
In that vein, DL is making altering its maintenance cycle and aircraft interiors.
"This month, the company began cycling aircraft through the maintenance hangar every 30 days instead of every 70, in an effort both to extend the planes' life and to improve their appearance. Next month, Delta will unveil new cabin interiors that include leather seats throughout coach class."
And for those of you who hate the latest DL livery, and use of RJ's on long flights,
"At some employee gatherings, Mr. Grinstein follows his criticism of prior management with a scathing critique of some current initiatives. Usually standing alone, without an entourage or written comments, Mr. Grinstein methodically reels off complaints. Marketing has been atrocious, he says -- sometimes with marketing officials in the audience. He hates the carrier's stale "luggage tag" ad campaign plastered on billboards in key markets. He dislikes an aircraft paint job introduced just last year, though he says changing it again isn't feasible. Delta's shift to lower-cost regional jets on some flights of over two hours, such as between Dallas and New York's JFK, is an "abuse" that customers shouldn't have to put up with. A Delta spokeswoman says such flights are a minority of its regional jet schedule."
767Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 20 hours ago) and read 9407 times:
Interesting...I tried to book tickets on Song for JFK-ATL for this October on delta.com. Message popped up that said "route discontinued September 30, 2004."
I also noticed that DL seems to have significantly reduced flights between NYC and ATL.
Sspontak From United States, joined Aug 2004, 445 posts, RR: 3 Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 20 hours ago) and read 9340 times:
Yes, Song has discontinued JFK-ATL. I had an itineray change on an HNL/ATL/JFK routing. My ATL/JFK Song flight was discontinued. Delta changed my flight to a mainline flight that would be more than a 6 hour layover. Not brilliant. I called DL and they said that was the only option available on my SkyMiles ticket. Not good customer service. I thought anything over 4 hours was not a legal connection. But with some persistence, they finally changed me to a DL Connection CR7 flight with only a 55 minute flight. With Grinstein's plan I hope they keep this flight or better yet, make it mainline.
Sspontak From United States, joined Aug 2004, 445 posts, RR: 3 Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 19 hours ago) and read 9312 times:
I like the idea of the leather seats. Those cabins certainly need a much needed interior update. Hopefully PTV's will be added along more seat pitch and better customer service. Just roll the Song concept into Mainline. That is what the people want, but don't bad mouth Song. It is a very good product and the passenger like. Just get rid of the Song name and make it the standard Delta product.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 25728 posts, RR: 76 Reply 25, posted (5 years 3 months 19 hours ago) and read 9240 times:
That is the biggest piece of crap I have read. Starbucks charges more, but look who they compete with, Seattle's Best and a few other small chains and local coffee houses, Starbucks is completely differerent!
Starbucks owns Seattle's Best.
mark miami/los angeles
26 Flairport: MAH... Wow, that only makes it worse! Starbusck basically has the monopoly, then. They're only real competition is Borders Books and one other company
27 Micstatic: I've also noticed an increase incidence of ATL-Northeast flights being routed through CVG. The direct flights are still there, however they seem to be
28 JMV: Regarding the analogy to Starbucks, indeed there is limited competition for premium coffee and coffee-based drinks, but there is competition. However,
29 Sspontak: Delta will have to be competitive in price. Ultimately, isn't that what people really want, the best service at the lowest price.
30 MDL412: Like many other airlines, DL simply suffers from poor management and execution at this point in time. The air industry always changes. 25 years ago, a
31 Flairport: Now, to the next step... First: which routes will be cut or made song or connection (I'd say use song like Indy, use them for CRJs and 738s and then f
32 Drerx7: Wow, hopefully DL will pull out--and I don't even like Delta; but a previous poster said it best in that they are suffering from poor management as we
33 Deltadude8: I know there is a source for this hole story...but someone correct me if I am wrong...Something sounds a little fishy... Why would the CEO come out an
34 FRA2DTW: A couple of thoughts here: Premium pricing at Starbucks costs me an extra $ or two, which I can afford and which might make me feel good. A 15% premiu
35 FLY777UAL: If DL were to cut their flights on those 50-odd flights which are operated usually at 50% loads, they further reduce their chance of attracting the al
36 FLY777UAL: FRA2DTW-- Just curious (for my own knowledge) to see why you view a 15% premium as too much on a transcon flight. Flights between the West Coast and N
37 NonRevKing: If Mainline is exclusively long haul and regionals are used for everything else then.....somebody has been flip flopping. Isn't this the man that only
38 N160LH: So then I guess the rumor about DL parking or selling its MD-90 and MD-88 kinda makes since, if they are going for the long haul routes. This is also
39 Sspontak: Grinstein would be a good candidate for president considering all of his flip flopping of statements. Hopefully what he does will be in the best inter
40 Aa757first: PiedmontGirl once said "The problem isn't the passenger traveling on the $97 fare receiving $97 worth the service, its the passenger traveling on the
41 Sspontak: AA757First: This is a good plan for Delta. Maybe UA is on to something with their new 3 class transcon service plan.
42 Mariner: Aa757first: "...like something from Hollywood, not a B movie." Hollywood makes a lot of B movies. cheers mariner
43 Sspontak: I do like the Direct TV though. I hope they include it.
44 Lono: Grinstein is flip flopping..??? He has always said "Delta will need to reinvent itself" and "the company as you know will cease to exist.." I talked w
45 Aa757first: Aa757first: "...like something from Hollywood, not a B movie." I know, that came out wrong. No low-budget films. AAndrew
46 Airzim: Doesn't this sound like Delta trying to turn into Continental?
48 Skibum9: Rumor has it that Delta has been having negotiations with Comair's and ASA's pilot union to open up a flow-through system, in which furloughed Delta p
49 Usatoeze: Wow, that only makes it worse! Starbusck basically has the monopoly, then. They're only real competition is Borders Books and one other company whose
50 N102daman: Here's My take on this entire discussion Mr Grindstein is not revealing anything until the end of this month. He has said on many occasions he will no
51 Skibum9: Another interesting point...this speculated long-haul strategy would also support the rumors that Delta is going to re-activate the MD-11s!
52 WGW2707: I had just posted on another thread about Grinstein, before noticing this one. Grinstein I have to say, after reading all this, is a complete and tota
53 Sspontak: No Swan Song for Song. It sounds like Grinstein is turning DL into Song: leather seats, better service, most likely PTV's and longer haul routes. Mayb
54 JMV: WGW2707, Correction, Grinstein went to Burlington Northern not Santa Fe to helped merge the two railroads into what is now known as BNSF. "In 1989, Mr
55 SESGDL: It's truly sad that a once successful and enormous airline has sunk to the level that it has. DL is a long-established well-recognized corporate machi
56 Lono: SESGDL Amen to that!!!! Goes to show that all airlines are susceptible to disaster... Not airline is bullet proof!!
57 StevenUhl777: The most talked about rumor is that GG is trying to play dead right now...I don't see what this does, but they say it might be yet another ploy to get
58 UCLAX: This seems ironic. First of all, I haven't lived in the Deep South for 16 years, and I don't work in the industry, so these thoughts may not be valid
59 Baw716: To FLYUAL777 Really excellent analysis. You wouldn't happen to be an analyst at UA? OK..now to the travails of DL. Unfortunately, Delta has much the s
60 Baw716: My sincere apologies to all: I meant Gerald Grinstein...not Grinwald. It is after 1am and I was getting confused with the other Gerald G who ran UAL.
61 OttoPylit: Gee whiz, it seems that Wgw2707 sees Delta as doing everything wrong. And why shouldn't he, since he has such a good handle on running an airline. Wha
62 Alphascan: 777: Great analysis. I couldn't agree more. You nailed my vision for UA to a tee. Stephen: Your comparison of Grinstein and Goodwin each predicting th
63 SESGDL: Baw716, Your comments are ignorant. DL is MUCH too large to be merged into another massive carrier like AA, UA, NW or CO. AA merged with TW and has be
64 Planemaker: I believe that Grinstein has had a long chat with Bob Crandall about Pogo's biz plan and now clearly sees the writing on the wall... legacy carriers'
65 Cvgbear: I find the choice of this guy as CEO interesting...his one big aviation accomplishment was to make Western attractive for Delta to buy...is he "fatten
66 767Lover: I think the long-haul hypothesis is an interesting idea that could work. Currently, there is one niche not being effectively served, at least with US
67 StevenUhl777: To those who may be offended by my error, I am very sorry Well...ok...I'll forgive you this time around. Gerald Greenwald was the UAL CEO you were thi
68 Milesrich: Will people pay 10-20 percent more to fly Delta than an LCC, you bet, as long as the service is premium service with adequate leg room, and Jet Blue i
69 Exusair: You tear this guy down but you do not realize the situation this guy walked into when the Mullin team was ousted by the Board of Directors. As a Delta
70 Padcrasher: Grinstein didn't walk into anything he was Chairman of the Board and led the way in ousting Leo. IMO a failed attempt to get DALPA to play nice. Also,
71 Padcrasher: forget the china comment..I'm sorry.. I'm tired... "if only the service was better we'd wouldn't be in this mess" bull crap is old and dated. ... Majo
72 MSYtristar: Wishful thinking here, but it sure would be great to see Delta build up its former "mini hub" at LAX. LAX is a market where Delta has a decent passeng
73 Aa757first: If Baw716 prediction came true, it would be very odd, since TWA celebrated its 75th anniversary right before being taken over by American, and Delta j
74 SHUPirate1: Aa757first-Ummm...Song doesn't fly JFK-LAX, and JFK-LAX doesn't have anything anemitywise like that...just same old 31" pitch, on a 767 instead of a 3
75 Aa757first: SHUPirate1, I realize that. I was talking about the proposed "Starbucks" Delta. AAndrew
76 Planemaker: For a nicer hotel, people will gladly pay an extra 15%. For an upscale restaurant, what's 15%? We are more than happy to pay an extra 15% for designer
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