Kl911 From Netherlands, joined Jul 2003, 5496 posts, RR: 16 Posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7328 times:
Sorry for the negative sound of this thread, but I think the risk is serious.
One more 11/09 or 9/11 ( whatever you want) and a few airlines can really say goodbye forever. For me for example, AZ, UA and US are on the list. Ofcourse I hope it will never happen, but there are a few airlines at the edge..
Freshlove1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7229 times:
If that were ever to happen again no airline would be safe, you could probably pick a name out of a hat and that airline woud be either out of business or very close to it if it did happen again. Lots of people would be out of jobs. Just don;t want to think about a outcome like that.
TransPac From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6945 times:
I tend to agree with Warren. If things get bad enough to where it looks like the infrastructure is starting to crumble, the government will intervene to keep things going. Contrary to popular belief around here, supply and demand does not work all the time and in all situations. However, I don't think another air attack on the scale of 9/11 is going to happen. It's possible but it doesn't seem likely. US Intelligence has been indicating that if another major attack happens, it will be through other means. Hopefully, this intel is more reliable than the stuff that sent us to Iraq.
Kl911 From Netherlands, joined Jul 2003, 5496 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6718 times:
'''However, I don't think another air attack on the scale of 9/11 is going to happen. It's possible but it doesn't seem likely. US Intelligence has been indicating that if another major attack happens, it will be through other means.''
Wasn't US intelligence wrong at 9/11 as well? ( They didn't know anything about the attack! ) Never say Never! I have the feeling that US intelligence is not as good as they want us to believe. Ofcourse, after 9/11 a lot has changed, but so did the terrorists...
Ken777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 9001 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6585 times:
There is an assumption that such an attack would be in the US. Bali and Madrid shows that no place is really safe and that the US is not the only country on "the list".
There are, sadly, too many things besides a 9/11 situation that could have the same impact on airlines, or other industries.
As for posts on boards, I think that a post does not hurt those directly impacted by 9/11 if we continue to remember them - not only by respecting them in the post, but on a continual basis in our thoughts.
Isitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6566 times:
I can try to help WOMACK17.
If the airlines suffer any kind of prolonged interruption of cash flow, like three of four days, some airlines will not survive, cash influx from the government or no cash influx.
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
Thomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 4227 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 6492 times:
While I can not rule out another use of aircraft being used by terrorist group, my feeling however is that they would probably go for a softer target, most likely using a car/truck bomb where there is a large concentration of people say at a sporting event. How such an attack would effect the aviation sector is unknown but any massive strike whether it involves civil aviation or not will have some negative impact on the airline industry.
Let's just pray very hard that nothing like this ever happens.
UA777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6130 times:
Though not personally close my family lost a dear family member (Dad's cousin who is a f/a for UA but wasn't working at the time) in the attack this is a good question concerning the matter of the worlds current aviation industry.
I think a lot of the listed airlines are already crippled by 9/11 and are slowly making their decent into non-existence. US, UA, AZ, DL are all current victims of the world's (Esp. the United States) crappy economy. The gov. won't step in b/c there are still other airlines that can invest and thrive off of these failures.
The US will slowly come out into the light of day and start spending more money allowing for current and new airlines to succeed. In the very unlikely and very sad event that another 9/11 type attack happens you can see the people backing into their shells again.
At that point you will see the gov. step in. The point is that there is still success to be made out of all of this and that's why I think the gov. is holding back. It will be sad to see those who could be great airlines leave due to this but that's part of what it will take to grow and reconstruct and stable and well maintained aviation industry.
Just my 2¢
Also see; http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1697785/6/
For my personal opinion on the reasoningng for the down fall in the airline industry and the why airlines such as UA and US are failing in the current markes that they serve. Comments quite welcome seeing how I am less experienceded than you guys and might be missing a few key points....
AFROTC From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 191 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6040 times:
To be honest, not trying to start a flame, but I don't quite understand how this post can be tactless, just because the guy is from the Netherlands and is honestly curious about a harsh subject doesn't exactly make it tactless. It is my firm belief that the more we question and learn, the less their deaths will be in vein.
my 2 cents.
We've Been Looking For You, United States Airforce, Cross Into The Blue!
Burnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7834 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6009 times:
I dont think it would happen again like that of 9/11, do they really think that pax are going to sit around, and now that they would have a hard time slipping anything by security (Even though the TSA Sucks), Pax will kick their A**. I know i would do what I could, no terrorist is taking over my plane that I am on, if any terrorist happen to be here, MARK MY WORDS!
UA777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5967 times:
How about you watch your words....
With the new threat of home made bombs being built while in the air out of things that any ordinary traveler I'd be scared. You're comments of "...though the TSA Sucks" should be rethought. The TSA might "suck" in your eyes but they are the only thing standing in the terrorist way. With this in mind how many planes do you see crashing into buildings or blowing up mid-air.
I'm positive that a few members are either associated with the TSA or know someone who is and would find these comments very disrespectful. You should really back down and stop being the big "I'm going to kick all of their asses if they even try to pee in the wrong direction" and realize that 9/11 happened b/c they hit all the weak spots in aviation.
To date we still have spots that we can't control such as brining a camera on the a/c, bringing a bag of food onto the a/c, this freedom will be used against us just like everyother thing that was in place before 9/11.
If we all followed your viewpoint we would not have food after security, no bathrooms, no phones, no walls that you can't see through, everything either made out of paper or plastic. And you'd probably be at the front of the line to complain about how this is unfair and should be put back in place b/c it's your freedom, just like it's supposedly your freedom to protect America's skis. It's coming out of your tax money any ways so why don't you save youself the worry and let the guys you're paying for deal with it. The world and all your freedoms that you think you have are no longer as free as they used to.
UALFAson From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 831 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5745 times:
As someone who lived a mile from the Pentagon on 9/11 and has a mom who is an F/A for UA that was stuck in California for a week afterwards, I feel like I lived through the experience first-hand and choose to participate in what I think is not an offense thread.
Honestly, if there is another major terrorist attack in the US in the near future, whether by plane, truck bomb, or some other means, I think this country is going to go to heck in a handbasket. Airlines will be the least of our concerns--the entire encomony will go down the crapper. The public will be split between wanting to bomb the entire Middle East back to kingdom come and those who believe we brought this upon ourselves and should throw ourselves at the mercy of the UN and withdraw all our troops immediately.
Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), Americans are just not used to dealing with terrorist activity on our soil. IMHO, this is a much bigger issue than which airlines will fail, but I agree with Freshlove1 who said pick a name out of a hat, and that includes many LCCs. It'll be the WN "trailer trash" who will be the first to decide no more plane trips to grandma's, not the business execs and salespeople who have to fly for business like it or not.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
Aa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5689 times:
You're comments of "...though the TSA Sucks" should be rethought.
I don't know where you live. I'm sure some TSA personnel are great. The ones I have seen look like they belong in McDonalds.
In Boston, I bought a case of root beer from Cheer's. Each bottle was individually wrapped in paper. I knew it would cause a search, but as I didn't check a bag I had no choice. So my bag stopped in the X-Ray machine. The man yelled "What the hell?" and his college came over to inspect it. They watched it for about three minutes, trying to figure out what it was. "Can we search this?" "Sure." They moved it to a back room for about four minutes. A man came out and said "What is this?" "Root beer?" "What?" "Root beer, like the soda?" "Oh. Ok, enjoy your flight." Who knows what could have been in those bottles.
PHL security is scary. Really scary. The woman at the X-Ray machine doesn't pay attention. At the end, where the rollers are, there were about four TSA officials with their feet on spewn on the rollers, screaming.
The TSA might "suck" in your eyes but they are the only thing standing in the terrorist way.
That's what I'm worried about.
With this in mind how many planes do you see crashing into buildings or blowing up mid-air.
They are afraid of passengers and cabin crew fighting back, not the TSA. Flight attendant manuals essentially told flight attendants to ask the terrorist if they cared for coffee. Hijackings in the 1960s and 1970s were no big deal, really. A nut would tell the Captain to fly to Havana, he would, they would land, re-fuel, the nut would be arrested and the passengers would get a bottle of rum and a box of cigars. Now, the last thing a flight attendant will do is be "passive".
If we all followed your viewpoint we would not have food after security, no bathrooms, no phones, no walls that you can't see through, everything either made out of paper or plastic.
Bill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8493 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5662 times:
The govt isn't going to let commercial avation collapse
Commercial aviation as a whole won't collapse as it is an integral part of modern societies infrastructure. Some of the players, even some the major ones won't be able to survive.
Most of the carriers that would be flying the A380 at the time
That being a bit cynical don't you think?
If/when another attack involving an aircraft involved you can bet that all hell will break loose on the governement in question for not taking propper actions and not learning from previous events around the world. Sure we complain about security checks taking forever, but if we want to feel safe in the air it is nessecary.
UA777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5615 times:
Are you even old enough to get a job at McDonalds? Until you are I wouldn't be passing judgments on those who actually get off their butt and work for a living. Making statements like the one's above, be it factually correct or not, are not ok. Not by you, not by me, not by anyone. These people have a job that, even though you think they suck at, they manage to do well and still keep the airports and all passing passengers safe.
The statements are not correct and should not be stated in the form that they were. Not ALL TSA people are "stupid". Though some might truly be unfit to work in that field, most if not all of them are qualified and perform the job to it's max.
Burnsie28, AA757First, Myself, and a lot of the posters in this forum are all under 20. I'm soon to be 15, you are somewhere in that range, Burnsie is 18-20. We (well I try not to) all comment on stuff we have no right commenting on. How the hell would I know if the TSA is good or bad? How would I know if another 9/11 will happen? I'm just making an educated guess but you two come off as though you know it all and whatever you say is what's going to happen.
I try to live by this: If it shouldn't be said don't say it. If it should be said say it in a manner that comes off as though you are making an educated guess such as; "I think the TSA sucks b/c I have seen many errors that have caused the corruption of the flight b/c they were unsure if they had scanned a passenger or not causing them to evac. an entire terminal and spent 4hours rescanning all the passengers and both their checked and carry on bag's" not just "though the TSA Sucks..." or "the one's I've seen belong at McDonalds".
Just a thought.
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
: If there were another attack, you wouldnt see very many photos from the US on airliners.net anymore, that is for sure, as bad as it is now.
: Hi guys, Most of you will be familiar with what i do as a job, and also familiar with my habit of watching threads and responding when i feel i can ad
: Excellent post ChrisBA777ER! I wish more people would give such to-the-point answers. You are on my respected users list now!
: Thanks very much mate - appreciate it. Hope it helped. Rgds, CM
: Chris - I'd be more than worried about BA, I think BA might be one of the first to go. They are so dependent on transatlantic flying for their big mon
: Cant really say too much, as we charge many hundreds of pounds for our detailed credit opinion, but i would say not to lose too much sleep over BA. Th
: Any routes that are not profit making or show even the slightest signs of sluggish loads will be dropped and this means more business for Goodyear In
: AV would get really bad if another 9/11 happened, i mean,their flights to the US are the cash cows! They dont face competition on CTG-MIA BAQ-MIA BOG-
: It'll be the WN "trailer trash" who will be the first to decide no more plane trips to grandma's, not the business execs and salespeople who have to f
: The world has already weathered several 'big attacks' since 9/11 that affected economies and airlines around the world but for the most part airlines
: It wont happen, but DL and US would be gone. UA Would fight it out like usual, and AA would enter the largest BK in aviation history. UA
: These people have a job that, even though you think they suck at, they manage to do well and still keep the airports and all passing passengers safe.
: You stated it as though when we all go to the airport we can expect to have a highschool drop out, burger flipping, man/woman checking our bags. Like
: I have to comment on this, while we make a lot of jokes about the TSA. (Thousands Standing Around), (Take Scissors Away) and so on. But, the TSA is no
: JETMechMD80.....From someone who logs around 100 commercial flights a year, which means he goes through a lot of airport metal machines and sees a goo
: The sad part is people are under the impression that if you don't attend a college you aren't shit. We have retired military, young folks looking for
: How about you watch your words.... With the new threat of home made bombs being built while in the air out of things that any ordinary traveler I'd be
: I'm positive that a few members are either associated with the TSA or know someone who is and would find these comments very disrespectful. You should
: Are you even old enough to get a job at McDonald's? Until you are I wouldn't be passing judgments on those who actually get off their butt and work fo
: I'm find this topic to be very insensitive. To any family members of friends who died in the 9/11 attack I would like to apologize for this tactless p
: I, like a few million other regulars at the airport, are not knocking the TSA. I just say, to me, it looks like they're looking in the wrong places wi
: '''I'm find this topic to be very insensitive. To any family members of friends who died in the 9/11 attack I would like to apologize for this tactles
: Are you communist or what? What's wrong with this subject? I have the feeling Americans make 9/11 to big. I dont know what communist things have to do
: AirframeAS, This a normal subject, with normal questions, and we all want to see normal answers. I said communist, because you wanted to delete this t
: I doubt an attack at the scale of 9/11 would occur in the near future in the US, but the real danger, as far as terrorism involving commercial ariline