Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Cathay Pilot "disciplined"  
User currently offlineCXoneWorld From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 316 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 11985 times:

Hong Kong's Cathay Pacific Airways has disciplined the flight crew of a B744 passenger flight following an allegedly "sporty'' approach to HKG.

Angelique Tam, the airline's manager of corporate communications, confirmed the news that the captain and first officer on CX 904 (29 July) had ignored the advice of air traffic controllers and consequently led the aircraft to make a 60-degree turn just 500 feet above the choppy waters in order to land safely on the Runway 07L. Reportedly that the aircraft's ground proximity warning system (GPWS) was not activated during the incident

``There was no danger to passengers. We take all necessary action to maintain our high standards of flying.'' Tam added.

Nevertheless, the Civil Aviation Department in Hong Kong confirmed that it had launched an investigation into the incident together with the airline.

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail_frame.cfm?articleid=50127&intcatid=1



oneworld alliance revolves around you
54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRadelow From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 426 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 11663 times:

Sounds like he thought he was landing at Kai Tak...HAHAHAHA  Smile

Mark


User currently offlineNZ767 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 1620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11500 times:

"Reportedly that the aircraft's ground proximity warning system (GPWS) was not activated during the incident"

If the aircraft was in landing configuration (which, at 500ft ASL I hope like hell it was), the GPWS wouldn't have sounded anyway.  Smile


User currently offlineMusapapaya From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1098 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11321 times:

what aircraft is that? a 744?


Lufthansa Group of Airlines
User currently offlinePhilsquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11273 times:

Depending on the sink rate, the GPWS could have sounded. Being in the landing configuration does not bias out the sink rate warning.

User currently offlineXXXX10 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 777 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11169 times:

If I read it correctly the article said that the turn was completed 5 miles out and at 500 feet isn't that way below the normal profile?

It also mentions that they were avoiding bad weather, if so and assuming that they didn't descend below their MDA have they broken any rules?


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7110 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 10968 times:

500feet at 5 miles out, just a wee bit low don't you think, aern't they usually 1500+feet AGL at that distance from the runway?

User currently offlineSoaringadi From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 472 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10949 times:

Looks like Cathay pilots remember the good ol' Hong Kong  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Fly safe..



If it ain't Boeing, I'm not going !
User currently offlineElcapi1980 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10178 times:

I know that in commercial operation you are told to make smooth manuevers to the conform of passenger, but I beleive that making an steep turn with 60 degrees bank wont compromise the safety of the pax, so what is the big deal,
I am wondering what will happen if they (pilot) make side slip aproach...that will be fun .....



I love you barranquilla!!!!!
User currently offlinePropatriamori From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9924 times:

I was on that flight, seat 82A upper deck...

It was a very choppy approach, and the first time I've ever felt like I was going to get sick on a plane. When we broke out of the clouds, it was noticable to me that we were way below normal glideslope, and we did make a large turn (maybe 40 degree?) about 500 feet above the water, and maintained that altitude until landing at Hong Kong. It did cause me a bit of concern, as it felt like we were outside the normal approach procedures.

There were only 4 other pax on the upper deck, so I don't know if anyone else even noticed.

Funny thing is, I remember the captain announcing in Manila that the First Officer would be handling the flying portion of the duties for that flight, and after landing I remember thinking that maybe the FO had made a mistake on approach.

Most memorable flight this year!


User currently offlineSevenHeavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1158 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9923 times:

Personally that sounds like the kind of approach I would have enjoyed! Smile.
I believe that they article is saying that they made a 60 degree turn i.e. from heading 010'-070' to intercept the correct approach to 07L and not that they initiated a 60 degree banked turn - now that would have been interesting at 500 ASL!!!
If they were indeed avoiding adverse weather then the manouver sounds fair enough. I can't quite figure out what they were doing so low - I guess they lost a lot of height performing the turn, but obviously some other individuals are less keen on this kind of flying.

Regards,

SevenHeavy



So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
User currently offlinePropatriamori From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9898 times:

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the flight and it was a very exciting deviation from the norm!

User currently offlineEnoreFilho From Brazil, joined Jun 2004, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9423 times:

In good Portuguese, the right word to remember Kai Tak approach is "saudade"!!!


Member of the all mighty Canudos Air Force!!!!
User currently offlineNjoizflyin From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 38 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9221 times:

It does not sound like there was any real danger involved, just very different from a normal maneuver. Five hundred feet is a bit low, but depending on what kind of flyer you are it would be a scary thing or an exciting one. Let's try not to whine about it too much though.

User currently offlineFSPilot747 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 3599 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8826 times:

Interesting. 60 degrees of bank seems a bit much to me, but we're talking about a 744 crew here. They know what theyre doin'....most of the time  Big grin

User currently offlineKBOS From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 430 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8541 times:

Must be an old military pilot...nobody ever complained when he did it in a cargo plane.....


I don't care if the sun don't shine, I do my drinkin in the evening time when I'm in Rhode Island
User currently offlineWomBat151 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8469 times:

Shouldn't they have heard the "BANK ANGLE!!!" warning?  Smile


Ian @ EHAM (AMS), 3,1NM of SPY VOR radial 205
User currently offlineElcapi1980 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8399 times:

Shouldn't they have heard the "BANK ANGLE!!!" warning?
----------------------------------------------------------------

Do they have one ?

I 've never heard that?



I love you barranquilla!!!!!
User currently offlineBlackbird1331 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1897 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 8108 times:

The bank angle warning was invented in 1903 when Orville screamed at Wilbur, "You're banking!"


Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
User currently offlineNZ767 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 1620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8030 times:

Granted, Philsquares, the sink rate may have activated if they exceeded those parameters.
Sounds a lot like one of my visual approaches on Flightsim. Big grin


User currently offlineSevenHeavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1158 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7980 times:

To clarify there is nothing to say that the aircraft excecuted a 60 degree banked maneuver. It made a 60 degree turn which is a completely different thing. The degree of bank was in all likelyhood perfectly acceptable so there would be no cause for any kind of bank angle warning to sound

Regards,

SevenHeavy



So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
User currently offlinePropatriamori From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7917 times:

From my recollection, the bank angle was dramatic, but I'm not sure it was quite 60 degrees. Eyewitnesses and memory being somewhat less than perfect, I could not venture a guess. Being a few feet behind the cockpit door, I do recall hearing some kind of loud annunciation, again, can't remember what.

We were very low and a long way from the runway, in fact quite a lot of throttle was applied to get the plane higher in altitude and back on glideslope.

500 feet from the ocean banking that hard was certainly exciting.

A sixty degree change of heading is more likely judging by the bearing I saw from my window to a powerplant-like structure off on the far shore.


User currently offlineCXCPA From Hong Kong, joined May 2000, 387 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7620 times:

The most terrible point is that Cathay said it is safe.
Indeed, it is dangerous action!
Even at Kai Tak, it is not neccesary to make a 60 degree turn at so low altitude!
And the interesting point is whether they use ILS approach or visual approach. If they use ILS approach, this kind of events should not happen, if they use visual approach, why they use visual approach?


User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7591 times:

Would love to see a video or pics of this flight!

User currently offlineAirbus_A340 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2000, 1560 posts, RR: 19
Reply 24, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7551 times:

CXCPA, Cathay didn't say that "it was safe", they said that their passengers were in no danger. In what position are you to say that it was a dangerous action? Are you part of the investigating team?

There is cause for concern for sure, otherwise this matter wouldn't have been raised....so I'm not saying what they did was right.



People. They make an airline. www.cathaypacific.com
25 CXCPA : Airbus_A340, I think we need some people to explain this sentence: "There was no danger to passengers." And let try this action in flightsim, you will
26 Dab920 : CXCPA, What is so dangerous about it? They did a 60 degree heading change and NOT a 60 degree angle of bank. 500ft was indeed a little low, but it is
27 Airbus_A340 : CXCPA, I don't need flightsim, I fly. And as Dab920 said, it's a 60 degree heading change, not angle of bank.
28 B-HOP : CXCPA Not to mention they need to use localizer BEFORE they start to intercept the ILS, I beleieve the localizer would be somewhere near Chaung Chau
29 CXCPA : http://www.vatroc.org/english/charts/vhhh_1101/07L_TD.pdf Let see the approach chart of RWY07L, VHHH, then you will understand it more. There are many
30 CX flyboy : CXCPA, It is obvious you are not very familiar with the way things work. Simply looking at the chart is misleading. The mountains in the area are not
31 CXCPA : CX flyboy, I understand your point. But you miss one important point. I mean turning LARGE ANGLE in a SHORT TIME is a sharp turn. Let say for banking
32 Airbus_A340 : Where does it say they had to turn a large angle in a short time? I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with spokeswoman's statement. From the Art
33 CX flyboy : CXCPA, Large aircraft, even 747s are more manouvreable than you think! There is penty of room for an entire airshow by 747s to be flown between Lantau
34 AC : CX flyboy: From your replies, it sounds what the crew have done are not totally unacceptable, so what is the exact reason for them to be disciplined?
35 CX flyboy : Ac, I can't really comment on what the crew exactly did, as I am not sure, however I was just saying to CXCPA, that what happened was not as dangerous
36 Airbus_A340 : CXCPA, you have no idea do you. The aircraft was never in any dangerous situation, nor were the passengers. 99.9% of passengers have no idea about the
37 AC : I believe some passengers may feel nervous, think it is dangerous I guess most passengers won't be able to feel it as most of them don't know how low
38 CXCPA : AC, Maybe one of the passengers is a pilot from SQ. so he complain it to the media. Is this explanation reasonable? The case of "bug in swimming pool"
39 B-HOP : CXCPA How do you know there was a pilot from SQ on board? It never amaze me with your 'professional' knowledge, surely they have done something wrong,
40 Airbus_A340 : Kevin, well said. CXCPA, I don't know who reported it, and to be honest, I couldn't care less as it is not the issue. Cathay have not put any aircraft
41 B-HOP : Airbus_A340 Thanks, sorry for the poor grammar, was in a real rush, head weren't functioning. As I said, we are in the world where we are competiting
42 CXCPA : Dangerous don't mean accident happen! just like overspeeding is dangerous, but don't mean accident happen! It is stupid to say it is safe because of n
43 AC : As CX is a strong competitor os SQ, so according to AC, there is a possibility that a SQ pilot report it to the media... Did i say so?.... Anyway, I b
44 Post contains images CXoneWorld : I would thank you all for your interest in this topic Having started the thread myself, or having picked up the issue and brought it over to A.net by
45 Cathay250 : “As CX is a strong competitor os SQ, so according to AC, there is a possibility that a SQ pilot report it to the media.” Oh please, I was actually
46 Tsentsan : Hi guys, Errr... I'm not understanding something here, where does SQ come into play? I tried to do a search for "SQ" or "Singapore" in the news articl
47 Frjmx328 : B747-400's would more than likely have EGPWS installed. Yes it gives a "bank angle warning". Sounds to me that the Cathy crew was well off-profile, an
48 B-HOP : CXCPA You claims CEE/AL is more difficult than a professional pilot license http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/527445/ (p
49 Post contains images Kl911 : CXCPA, '''I seldom see the view from Asian countries such as Singapore, Malyasia, Taiwan, China, Japan, India, Korea, etc. Can you tell me why?''' May
50 CXoneWorld : It's enough!! This discussion is not getting us to anywhere. Let's call for a stop on the personal attack and get back to what we are supposed to be t
51 Post contains images CXoneWorld : Yup, Airbus_A340, I've closely followed the thread and no doubt I'd understand what you mean Call me an idealist!! I hope your understanding and toler
52 Post contains images Buckfifty : You would have noticed that the real pilots here on this forum will not give an opinion on this issue, even those in the know, because as professional
53 N754pr : Buckfifty, Very true. All of us are open to this event apart from CXCPA who just has this hate thing for CX pilots. Its a shame a user with a name lik
54 9V-SPK : Been following this forum and have to say that some people just makes me laugh with their comments.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
The "Pilot Trick" posted Wed Oct 8 2003 02:33:44 by BMIA330
Alitalia Pilot Announced: "Welcome To Palestine" posted Tue May 6 2003 12:50:40 by Ly334
Cathay Pacific Says "No" To Any A380 Orders posted Tue Apr 29 2003 01:04:17 by DIA
Details Of Cathay Pacific's New "The Pier" Lounge posted Sun Nov 4 2001 12:37:07 by Cx74b
CNN's "Pilot/reporter"! posted Tue Oct 31 2000 21:09:31 by Tripl7
"D" At Atlanta? posted Sun Oct 1 2006 23:33:41 by SW733
MKE Concourse "C" Expansion posted Fri Sep 8 2006 00:16:19 by Phxtravelboy
Flying Blue Mileage For AF "Z" Class posted Thu Aug 31 2006 11:24:27 by Marcus380
Why Do All Canadian Airport Codes Start With "y"? posted Sun Jul 2 2006 17:05:56 by NZ8800
Finally, Some Pix Of DL"s "refreshed" BizE! posted Wed Jun 14 2006 20:39:17 by RwSEA
Details Of Cathay Pacific's New "The Pier" Lounge posted Sun Nov 4 2001 12:37:07 by Cx74b
CNN's "Pilot/reporter"! posted Tue Oct 31 2000 21:09:31 by Tripl7
Braniff "72P", "72S", And "743" posted Sun Jul 26 2009 10:01:11 by OB1504
HA A-330 "Y" Configuration posted Mon Mar 9 2009 21:50:36 by HNL-Jack
IAH Terminal "E" Checkin posted Thu Oct 9 2008 12:03:06 by Lincoln
HV Pilot Arrested For Argentina "Death Flights" posted Wed Sep 23 2009 04:26:11 by BuyantUkhaa