BoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1588 posts, RR: 18 Posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 5860 times:
According to Boeing, the 747 aircraft with 450 passengers will have 2% higher trip costs and 6% lower seat-mile costs than a 747-400 with 416 passengers. Using its US international rules, Boeing claims that the 747ADV will have 19% lower trip costs and 3% lower seat-mile costs than an A380 with 542 passengers.
The 747ADV will have an MTOW of 930,000 lb. and a range of 8000 nm with a noise footprint 40% less than the 747-400. Regional Director-Product Marketing Mike Wilson told this website that the company hopes to have aircraft definition by mid-2005 with a launch in the first half of 2006 and delivery in the first half of 2009.
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 5704 times:
The 747ADV will have an MTOW of 930,000 lb. and a range of 8000 nm with a noise footprint 40% less than the 747-400.
Sounds like some of the 747-400QXLR tech will make its way onto the 747-Adv, no pun intended
Very nice numbers and I really hope to see this happen. They are a lot of 747 operators out there where these numbers would garantee the life of the 747 for many years to come.
At this point I think Boeing's best bet is to market this as a very-low risk alternative to the A380 and as a nearly 1:1 744 replacement. Few airlines want to replace an old 744 with a new 744, so a 747-Adv might prevent those airlines from finding some way to justify the A380.
If there are any commonality ties (in terms of systems and engines) then Boeing might have atleast put their foot in the door, which for now, is better than nothing.
Using its US international rules, Boeing claims that the 747ADV will have 19% lower trip costs and 3% lower seat-mile costs than an A380 with 542 passengers.
And when compared with an A380 in an SQ-like configuration of less than 500 seats, I'm sure this is even more favorable for the 747-Adv... though the 747 would not match the A380s comfort.... that is to say, unless Boeing can pull off some *very* innovative cabin enhancements.
AvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2430 posts, RR: 10 Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5598 times:
"Sounds like some of the 747-400QXLR tech will make its way onto the 747-Adv, no pun intended."
Exactly. The Advanced model is largely an evolution of the QXLR, the principal difference, along with the slight stretch, is that it will use more fuel-efficient engines; bleed-air adapted variants of the 7E7's powerplants, according to Flight International. FI said there would be no major systems changes, mainly just flight deck upgrades. Whether they can sell it or not is still up in the air but it's nice BCA is trying to stay in the very large airliner market in some capacity. The freighter is a slightly larger stretch and MTOW (around 960,000 lbs.) and I suspect, if the Adv. is launched, this could be the most popular model.
AvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2430 posts, RR: 10 Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5477 times:
"This has been the achiles heel of all 747-X proposals, securing a firm order."
You are SO right, DFWRevolution! 3 1/2 years ago before it scrapped its' last near A380-sized 747X, program manager Walt Gillette was at one point, going to commit it to development WITHOUT any firm orders, saying "Boeing will pick its launch customers along the way" to first flight in Dec., 2004. Fortunately, wiser heads at BCA prevailed and a costly potential 'while elephant' was aborted. All recent new 747 proposals have come to naught, although I suspect the Advanced may just break that mold due to its more fuel-efficient engines and growing demand in Asia. Still, unlike the A380, I feel demand might be weighted to the freighter. As for your last possibility, sure, a sales package tying it to the 7E7 might be a good bet for some non-A380 carriers since it will also use a 7E7 engine variant. For those not needing a true 'superjumbo' and not bent on having the newest technology, the 747-Adv. would warrant serious consideration.
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5202 times:
CX, BA are definitly contenders, but I'd say SQ and QF are out as they have already ordered the A380 and expressed interest in the 777-300ER. I would also put NW on the list for no other reason than they don't like to take risks. Asian opperations are extremly valuable to UA, so if they get their fianances in order around 2010, maybe they could be in there as well....
DIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 30 Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5154 times:
A stretched 747. Never thought I'd see it happen. But with the A380, it is obvious that there would be a market for an a/c in between the two. I think it would become the 747-500.
The question is, will Boeing still offer the current size 747 when the 747ADV is being produced? Or will Boeing only offer the 747ADV while selling the 777-300 to replace the regular size 747s out there?
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5093 times:
Or will Boeing only offer the 747ADV while selling the 777-300 to replace the regular size 747s out there?
I think Boeing's intention is for the 747-Adv to replace those regular sized 744s out there. There is no arguing that there is increased demand for larger aircraft, the question is how large. Jumping 150 seats to an A380 is a lot of risk for some airlines, jumping 20-30 seats to the 747-Adv is easier to swollow. As of now, airlines looking to replace their 744 only have these choices-
1. Replace a 20 year old aircraft with a new build of a 20 year old design
2. Drastically increase capacity to the A380
3. Remove about 50 seats and downgrade to a 777-300ER or A346
If an airline can fill a 744, why even consider option 3? The 744 is a fine aircraft, but its grey hair is starting to show. And then there is always risk of having too much capacity with the A380. The 747-Adv effectivly gives airlines an option 4.
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5030 times:
United Airline: This was, in fact, the basic idea behind the 747-500X/600X. The 600X would be the big stretch with the same range as the 400, and the 500X would be the small stretch with megarange.
If a 410 passenger 747-Adv were to have the same MTOW as the 450 passenger 747-Adv, it would push the range of the 7E7-8...
This might be attractive to some customers, but at the same time, it would increase development cost and add complexity to the whole 747 family. Boeing is not looking to put that much food on their plate
Whitehatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4550 times:
The freight version of a 747A would be the killer version.
There are many older 742s out there which will need replacing in the medium and long term. The 744SF conversion won't cut it for many of these requirements as the swing-nose for outsize freight is where they are going to be needed.
Even cargo A380s won't offer the outsize ability of the 747, no matter what their capacity or weights. There's billions of dollars worth of business in freighters alone for Boeing to totally dominate.
Whitehatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2752 times:
FBW is fly-by-wire
Simply put, it's an electrical system which replaces the pulleys and metal cables that previously operated the control surfaces of an aircraft. It reduces weight as there isn't all that internal knitting to be carried.