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VFR Routes Near/over LAX  
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6822 posts, RR: 7
Posted (10 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3485 times:

You've all seen those down-on shots of 747s departing runway 25R at LAX, by Sam Chui and Daniel Werner.

Are the north-south VFR routes over LAX the same as they used to be? Years ago there were two routes:

about over the middle of the field, northward at 4500 ft (?), southward at 3500, thru a gap in the Class B so no ATC clearance needed, or

1/2 to 1 nm offshore (i.e. 1 1/2 to 2 nm west of the ends of runways 25), thru the Class B, altitude as assigned between 2500-4000 ft.

Presumably all the pics were taken from aircraft on the offshore route; I wonder how much cheating ATC allows on the 1/2-to-1-nm-offshore? Why are you supposed to stay offshore, anyway?

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1522 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3441 times:

Timz,
The offshore route was discontinued a couple of years ago. Seems there were few instances LAX departures flying through assigned altitudes and encroaching on minimum vertical seperations from traffic in this corridor.
The midfield route is still used, though with a higher floor. In lieu of the offshore route, a new north/south VFR corridor was established east of LAX with the Hollywood Park racetrack as the reference point.



With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6822 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3424 times:

Oops, my mistake. Years ago there were three routes, including the Hollywood Park, which isn't a factor in the discussion of the pics.

But the offshore route must be available sometimes; those pics weren't taken from midfield. Surely you're not allowed to wander that far west from the midfield route? (Class B drops to the surface at the shoreline-- right?)


User currently offlineAaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1522 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3408 times:

Not the offshore route you're referring to. That one had a 2000' floor, which was then raised to 3000 before being closed.
The only VFR traffic allowed to transition the shoreline are helicopters and banner-towing aircraft. Copters approaching/departing LAX are usually at 500' to 1000' when hitting the shoreline portion of class B adjacent LAX. Transitioning a/c usually drop below the tops of the LAX sand dunes (approx. 300' above the surface of the bay when north/southbound.



With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6822 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3382 times:

So how about the midfield route-- is it still the SMO 132-degree radial? That would cross runway 7L/25R near its midpoint, and clearly the pics were taken from nowhere near there. You know the ones I mean:

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Photo © Sam Chui
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Photo © Sam Chui



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Photo © Sam Chui
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Photo © Daniel Werner



User currently offlineAv8trxx From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 657 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3355 times:

So how about the midfield route-- is it still the SMO 132-degree radial?
Yep. "Pilots shall navigate via the Santa Monica 132 radial, remaining between the San Diego freeway and the pacific Ocean Shoreline at all times."

http://www.awp.faa.gov/fsdo/los_angeles/airspace.htm


User currently offlinePilottim747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1607 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3348 times:

I heard that the pilots along the shoreline talk to LAX Tower and coordinate with them where they can be. They said in a previous thread that the Tower is pretty accomodating of GA aircraft if they stay out of the way. Can anyone confirm?

pilottim747



Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
User currently offlineAv8trxx From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 657 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3345 times:

VFR corridor traffic does not talk to LAX tower.

From the link above with the operating rules-

"The flight shall not require communications with or a clearance from Air Traffic Control"....."Frequency 128.55 is provided for the exchange of information between pilots using this area"

(The only traffic that would need to be in communication would be those a/c operating within the class B airspace outside the L A Special Flight Rules Area, i.e. the low level helicpoter ops.)

[Edited 2004-08-20 01:24:18]

User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6822 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3336 times:

Aircraft on the cross-above-midfield route don't have to talk to ATC, but the photographers were apparently in the Class B, offshore, and so did have to contact-- SoCal, or LAX tower?

User currently offlineAaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1522 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3320 times:

There is an offshore IFR route that facilitates aircraft flying between other L. A. area airports. Usually involves northbound traffic from LGB, SNA, or TOA to either VNY or BUR. I'm not sure it's a published routing - perhaps merely radar vectors provided by SoCal Approach. Aircraft are usually between 6000' and 8000', and anywhere from 1/2mi to 2 miles offshore.


With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
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