Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
EWR Take Offs Vs Landings  
User currently offlineB727fan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 299 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2870 times:

I was wondering how come planes taking off from EWR immediately bank eastward, then shortly after bank westward or continue on. I realize that the airspace between EWR, JFK & LGA is a tight one, but on approaches, the planes line up miles away heading "straight" for the runway. Can someone explain why the take offs are in "S" patterned climb while the landings don't seem to mind the straight approach?! Thanks.

10 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJBLUA320 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3179 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2845 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Hey

Im pretty sure you infact did answer your own questions. As the three major airports share the same airspace around the Metro area, each must be in accordance with the other 2s operations.

Its like a puzzle- when one airport uses one runway, the other two have to fit their operations so that their planes stay clear of the others traffic.

It could be for noise abatement, but I highly doubt that.

JBLU


User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3607 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2820 times:

All airports have standard instrument departures (SIDS) and standard approaches (STARS). The three NYC area airports have to have coordinated SIDS/STARS as JBLUA320 mentioned, so this is probably the reason. I looked at the EWR SIDS, which you can see yourself at http://www.airnav.com/airport/ewr and I think I see the S-turn you're talking about in both departure charts - there's nothing in the narrative about it (page two) so I would think it's probably just for traffic separation purposes. If it was for an obstruction or noise abatement it would probably say so in the narrative.


I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6781 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2778 times:

It's impossible to see how the initial left turn off of runway 22, or the initial right turn off of runway 4, would help with traffic separation. Much of the time LGA arrivals are over the Hudson River at 4000 ft; the departures are turning toward them. I'd say it's unquestionably for noise abatement and nothing else.

User currently offlineJBLUA320 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3179 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2747 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Timz,

Id wager a bet that it is definately unrelated to noise abatement. TLC did a show with the Port Authority some time ago specifically on this subject- I wish I could find it!

JBLU


User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3465 posts, RR: 47
Reply 5, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2692 times:

The S-turn is to put the EWR departing acft inside its "climb corridor" to not interfer with both inbound and outbound traffic from any of the area's airports. If all is well, you won't be stopped at 5,000' for very long (if at all).


*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlinePHLapproach From Philippines, joined Mar 2004, 1240 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2674 times:

The Mariner Two Departure Procedure (DP) off 4L/4R calls for a 060 heading then at I-EZA 4 DME turn left 290, climb maintain 2,500....Thence. On a Mariner Two DP for 22L/22R it's a initial left turn to 190, once crossing I-LSQ 2.3 DME turn right to 220, climb maintain 2500....Thence.

Now the Newark Seven DP basically calls for the same things as Mariner Two on both ends. Although for 22L/22R departures should expect Radar Vectors Direct LANNA, Sparta (SAX), or Pottstown (PTW).

These DP's are specifically designed for traffic to stay out of the surrounding airports LGA, JFK's airspace. Why do you think the Canarie Climb (CRI) DP was created.... for traffic to not go into LGA's airspace.


User currently offlineTrickijedi From United States of America, joined May 2001, 3266 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2661 times:

I've noticed the eastbound turn and then west for some LGA departures as well. Just thought I'd bring it up here in case they may be related.


Its better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than be in the air wishing you were on the ground. Fly safe!
User currently offlineSdkualeb From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 129 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2578 times:

IT KEEP THE AIRTRAFFIC AWAY FROM THE RESIDENTUAL AREA'S OF Elizabeth AND NEWARK, DEPENDING ON THE RUNWAY USED. IF YOU NOTICE THAT MOST OF THE TAKE Offs ARE OVER PORT ELIZABETH.

User currently offlineCicadajet From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2520 times:

Yes, noise abatement is an issue with the initial left turn off of 22.

- Tom



User currently offlineWindowSeat From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1311 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2525 times:

First off, this has everything to do with noise abatement and citizens' concerns than anything else. It does not really have any bearing on entering any of the other airspaces as mentioned by some.

Both runway 22 departures at EWR call for immediate heading changes to get the aircraft over the water as opposed to the land for noise abatement. While in the early 80s and before the FAA introduced the Expanded East Coast Plan (EECP) in the 90s the bearing change from the initial 190 turn to the 220 happened a little later than 2.3 DME which was then pulled back to the current 2.3 DME due to noise concerns over the Staten Island area. Newark also has take off minimums of at least 410 ft climb rate to minimize noise.

These DP's are specifically designed for traffic to stay out of the surrounding airports LGA, JFK's airspace. Why do you think the Canarie Climb (CRI) DP was created.... for traffic to not go into LGA's airspace.

I agree that the turns to 290 (rwy 4s) and the 220 turn (rwy 22s) is indeed to get out of each others airspaces, but I think the question was, why the initial turn to 060 (rwy 4s) and 190 (rwy 22s)? If at all these turns put traffic closer to LGA.

Since the EECP, when introduced, did not take into consideration traffic below 3000' these procedures have stayed. Apparently there were tests conducted by the FAA on straight-out departures at EWR and there are allegations that the findings were destroyed. There is a lot of political wrangling that took place of EWR's departures and the saga still continues. Until a decision is reached, these procedures are here to stay.

cheers








I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Most Take-offs And Landings In 2 Weeks? posted Sun Dec 21 2003 09:26:31 by SA7700
Landings & Take-offs In Japan (Video) posted Fri Feb 11 2005 04:36:38 by Centrair
Dodgey Landings/take Offs posted Sun Oct 20 2002 22:45:14 by BHXviscount
Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs posted Thu May 23 2002 17:00:01 by Arsenal@LHR
Landings And Take Offs At Honolulu? posted Fri Aug 10 2001 16:11:43 by 777kicksass
Branson's Pledge To Take Away VS Profits posted Tue Dec 5 2006 15:14:27 by Singapore_Air
Mike Boyd's Latest Take On A Vs. B posted Wed May 31 2006 18:11:41 by Lumberton
SFO Take-offs From Runway 19L/19R? posted Thu Mar 16 2006 15:25:07 by LVTMB
Question About NWA DC-9 Take Offs posted Fri Feb 3 2006 18:27:53 by Xbraniffone
Take Offs At Saba posted Wed Jun 29 2005 01:27:47 by PH-BFA